Ok well I purchased Galciv2 gold edition a couple years ago and think it's a great game, I used stardock to apply the patches and found it also a really good thing and easy to apply the patches.
Now here comes the BUT part, no stand alone patches? Yes I understand you can apply the patches from impulse or stardock and it's nice and easy to do it that way but when I learned that's the ONLY way you can update your game I was flabbergasted! That's ridiculous! I want to download the patches and keep them for future use on my hdd. What if I want to install the patches offline? or what if you guys go out of business and impulse/stardock is no longer in existance. I don't feel very comfortable with not being able to download the patches in stand alone form. Every game I've ever purchased has their website and yes you can download the latest patch right from them in stand alone form or at least from fileplanet with their blessing.
Why are the patches for this game under lock and key where you have to use impulse to get them and no I do not want to update my game online and then archive the entire freaking game and save it like that on my hdd. I just want a simple small little stand alone patch....you know? like the rest of world does it.
Patches for Stardock games are only available via Impulse.
Yea that's exactly the problem I'm talking about. If this is how stardock operates then I won't be purchasing anymore of their software. This is a backwards and suspicious way of doing things
@njareg- the main reason SD does it this way is actually their primary form of "DRM". By preventing pirates from obtaining patches, Stardock ensures that only their paying users get to enjoy the benefits of their products.
Steam-exclusive games are the same way.
hello and thank you for your reply and yes that's what it seems like I agree, but it's not practical and it's punishing the customers who bought the game. Lets face it, there is no 100% fool proof copy protection. This system will not prevent the pirates, they will simply get a working email and one registered game code and use it to take the patch, or worst get the patch and rig it so it can be distributed out with a hack full of viruses. This system only makes it frustraiting for the honest people.
No company can say they will be around and online forever (look at Enron), it ties my hands to have go through impulse/sd central to get a patch. Not only that it didn't even work correctly, I installed my game from the cd's which are a couple years old now and my stardock was out dated. I downloaded impulse and tried to "import/detect" my game and it only detected the expansion and not galciv2, so I ended up fooling with it for a couple of hours only to just throw my hands up and have to download the entire game from stardock.Yes I also tried to download the new version of SDcentral, I did that and it saw both games installed as they were but when trying to apply the patch I got an invalid url error. When looking on the forums I saw others having this problem but didn't see a solution.
This is a backwards, frustraiting, rediculous way of having to update a game I purchased. All I needed was to take one simple little patch and apply it...done.
Sorry I don't mean to rant here but I'm really surprised and yes frustraited with stardock for doing it this way. Honestly guys lets drop the Nazi way of guarding your patches and get with the rest of the world here. Don't make it annoying for PAYING customers to get a freaking patch.
I don't find Impulse punishing or frustrating in any way. When I set my gold edition up in Impulse back when it was just getting started, all I had to do was enter the cdkey twice and set one as GalCiv2 vanilla and one as DA. I've since lost the discs for gold edition but just having them linked to my Impulse account means that if I have to re-install because my computer melts down, all I need to do is grab Impulse from them and log in to have all my games right there waiting to be installed.
Yes but that isn't the point, It's a great feature to be able to download the game and I'm not knocking that, it's innovative and a really great option but the point is if stardocks folds or if you don't have access to the internet your sunk. Most other game companies out there give out stand alone patches, they offer these for free and open to everyone. locking down the patches doesn't prevent pirating, that's totally ludicrous and it's defies all good sense for stardock to go down this road.
I have some old games that I still like to play now and then. Total Annhiliation is one of them, Cavedog who made the game went out of business but because they gave out stand alone patches you can still download and apply them. They even made additional units for the game all in stand alone mode.
If something major happened to Stardock, why would you think they'd do anything other than release the patches as standalone?
In a world where Ubisoft's idea of copy protection is shackling you to online play, installing Impulse to patch your Stardock games is pretty benign (and actually less intrusive than Steam, my Impulse games don't even require me to launch Impulse to play them).
You bring up an excellent point Mtrixis. I would like to add that once your Impulse games are installed and patched if you wish, you can actually uninstall Impulse from your computer if you want.
Who knows they may release them....or they may not. Why not just give us the patch now in stand alone?....like everyone else does. Also I am saying that installing Impulse is intrusive, I'm saying I don't like having to be at the mercy of stardock simply to get a patch. It actually seems a little shady of them not release the patch in stand alone form, this anti pirating reason is really not believable since anyone can very easily bypass it.
Not everyone does.
Then why don't you simply bypass it , instead of crying about it?
It actually seems a little shady of them not release the patch in stand alone form, this anti pirating reason is really not believable since anyone can very easily bypass it. Then why don't you simply bypass it , instead of crying about it?
Why is it whenever a failure is pointed out in the game some die hard fan runs in and makes the same old tired accusations and comments. If you want kiss stardocks feet and give them your shirt so they can wipe their feet on it then be my guest, but being a paying customer I look at it a little differently. They made a great game and I'm happy with it but being a customer paying for the product I would like a little more warranty here. I don't want to be holding the bag if stardock goes out of business (hopefully this doesn't happen) which many companies are now a days. Why can't they give us the same stand alone patches as any other mainstreak publisher does? I've been purchasing and playing games for many years and have never seen this kind manditory system before. If others do it the same way they are in the minority. It's a perfectly legit and reasonable question.
Who said it's a failure? You're talking about a hypothetical situtation, that being Stardock going out of business during a period of time that you play their games.
Why would you not equate a "die hard fan" with "a paying customer"?
What does your license say you are entitled to? Did you even read it, or did you just scroll down to the end and click "I accept"?
Stardock practices a strong form of patch management: you will get it from them. This level of control allows for safe patches, preventing a 3rd party from slipping a little extra in a patch. Should it be found that something in a patch breaks some configuration that Stardock was not able to test they can pull the patch and know that nobody is posting the patch on a mirror. And the reason that I (as a paying customer) really appreciate is that the only people getting the patches are the people who are supposed to. It does bother me that people who pirate games are able to get their hands on patches that are funded by people who do pay for the games. I don't care for it, I like that Stardock and Valve distribute the patches to legitimate owners (though I prefer Impulse over Steam any day of the week, twice on Sunday). Throw in the bonus of Impulse letting me know when patches are available rather than having to comb over gaming news sites to find out that my game was patched and I'm one happy camper.
It's not as restrictive as it seems. You can do like me:
1. Instal Impulse
2. Update your game
3. use impulse to create an archive of your installed and patched game
4. use your cd burner to burn impulse and the archive
5. remove impulse
now you just need to reinstall impulse next time you need to reinstall the game.
you don't need to be online to use impulse. think of it as win-zip / win-rar or any other archiving software
you don't need impulse to be installed to play the game , only for the few minutes you actually dowload and install the patch. And each time you'll want to reinstall the game from the archive after that (without needing to go online) and only for the time required to install the patch (after which you can remove impulse again, since you got a copy of the impulse installer on that same cd anyway)
so if you're paranoid, don't worry, you can be as paranoid as you want, Stardock is nice for that, they don't prevent us from protecting ourselves.
Myself I hate the new DMR/ need to be logged in trend of some company and general invasivness. Best protection from hackers is always to be disconected. (and have a good firewall / antivirus, of course, for when you're connected)
I've used the above methods many time, I don't like having games on my computer when I got lots of exams/report. School comes first. So install / reinstall every 2 months or so. poor hard disk 8D So be assured the method work.
And yes, it means you can play thoses games even if Stardock goes bankrupt, since the method works perfectly. I never had to go back online to install the patched/archived version on my backup disk.
Anyhow, try it, it's explained in the faq somewhere, and if not I remember someone wrote a guide on how to archive your game using impulse. I burned a copy on that same disk in case I forgot what button to click
Using Impulse to deploy incremental updates rather than having to create new standalone patches for each update allows us to provide more updates more frequently at a lower cost. It also allows users with limited bandwidth or download speed to get updates faster, since they don't need to get a cumulative update from 1.0 each time there's a new patch.
Nice, I hadn't thought of that.
Why wouldn't you like Impulse anyway? I think it's great. It was hard for me to accept at first because I'm very much a system tray minimalist, but after I accepted Impulse living in my system tray I've found it definitely deserves the privilege. (Besides it beats the crap out of "Steam" which is a pile of rubbish and steamy dog poop.)
I definitely did NOT regret this decision when upgrading my PC recently - re-installing all the stuff I purchased via Impulse is WAY easier than locating all those CDs (and keys) all over again. Impulse is the first place I look to buy stuff from now. It's even easier than online game download stores (never can remember the location/login info for those things); once it's installed and set up you have access to everything.
I just wish there was a way to add OLD games that I've purchased before I was using Impulse as much as possible. I'd even pay a few bucks fee (in addition to whatever I paid for the old box version) to Stardock for the download/install convenience... doubt it'll ever happen though.
Well, I think these companies are only doing this "must be connected" nonsense to line their own pockets. Everything else they claim is a benefit is just a red herring meant to distract us from that fact and the negative consequences (must be connected and must have suspicious software running). I'll never buy a game that requires me to be connected unless it's specifically a multi-player only game. Single player is offline, period, or no deal. They sure as heck don't care about our protection and security (from hackers, spyware, etc.), that much is obvious.
Standalone updates are not just zip files. They contain their own installers, and have to be tested against every preceding version to make sure they install correctly on each, among other things. A lot goes into patch development that people don't generally consider, and Impulse reduces a lot of the unnecessary overhead involved. Even if it's not a huge amount for each patch, it adds up over time.
The forum databases became corrupted following a failure in the datacenter and had to be rolled back to monday morning's backup, as noted in the announcement.
[/quote]Even if it's not a huge amount for each patch, it adds up over time.[/quote]
But isn't that what impulse is doing as well? It must have to do all the exact same functions a stand alone patch installer have to do. How exactly is impulse saving time? I would think once an installer was coded its engine could be used for any future stand alone patch that was made. It seemed you folks were doing that up until 1.4 so what changed after that?
See where I'm going with this is why doesn't Stardock relax on this point, If someone is truely out to pirate the game they are going to do it as much as it sucks but I see no advantage in annoying your paying customers to get some false sense of security here. It's making the honest people pay. Granted there are lots of people that like impulse and have no problem with it but also granted there are lots that don't like it and to keep the patches locked away isn't fair to those people. You can certainly understand why people would like the stand alone patch right?
Again I'm not saying this in a harsh way but let's improve the current way of doing things.
As for the database corruption, yes I did see the announcment and attempted to edit that question out of my post, however everytime I tried Save changes and post the system would error out. I've been having lots of issues posting in the forums as it usually takes several attempts to actually get my post to take. I've used both IE and firefox and cleared cache etc but the issue remains.
i suppose i personally dont understand why you wouldnt want impulse to handle the update process. i would much rather impulse handle my updates than have to plug in some serial number every time. impulse doesnt blast you with ads. on startup it checks for updates for you so you are always current. if you dont want impulse it can be uninstalled. i suppose if you didnt buy w/e game you are trying to update and a buddy just gave you the reg code, then impulse would be inconvenient.
i have never had a bad update for games that are handled with impulse. on the other hand, games that have separate patches routinely have 2 or 3 patches in quick succession to fix some bug caused by the patch. then i have to store the patches on my network. when i reinstall the game i then have to apply the patches. its goes on and on. impulse simply does it for me.
No usually a game provider will give you 1 stand alone patch that update you to the latest version. As I've said in here already my beefs with impulse is it's an intrusive peice of software that I don't want to have to install in the first place simply to update my game when 1 simple stand alone patch can do that. Also with stand alone patches you get to keep them on your hard drive, or burn them to cd so if in the event stardock and impulse vanish then you can still update your game thanks to the stand alone patch. it's for your benefit to have the stand alone patch, pretty much all game providers give you stand alone patches, except stardock and few others not even worth mentioning.
Total Annhilation is a good example, a great game made 13yrs ago that many people still play and make mods for. Cavedog the company that created it when bankrupt 3 yrs after making the game but thanks to thier stand alone patches you can still download them and update your game. With stardocks impulse if they vanish what are you going to do? Your only way of updating your game is gone and because they refuse to make stand alone patches your stuck, the customer that supported them by giving them money is stuck. A pretty pathetic situation in my view that didn't need to happen. That's what I'm talking about here. I can't really understand why anyone who paid money for a product would walk away from that, it's like not getting warranty. Most other game companies give stand alone patches out on their websites ....in fact lots will give you stand alone patches AND give you a tool to update your game online like impulse does.
I don't care if they keep impulse going but dammit give us the patches to, I want to save mine and back them up, it's a reasonable request and practically everyone else acknolodges that and gives these patches out.
njareg: You're beating your head against a wall. For better or worse Stardock has made up their mind on this. I argued this point a year or more ago and it got me nowhere.
While many of the Stardock moderators are polite in their defense of their policy they are also quite firm when saying " it's our way or go away".
On the other hand, some of the forum posters can be quite rude in alluding to your lack of computer skills if you can't get Impulse to work for you. And woe be to you if you just don't like Impulse on general principle. So far, in this thread, you've been lucky. Those responding have been restrained in their responses. But, the "fanboys" are watching.
Thanks for your post Joel, Yes I'm aware of what the typical fanatical hardcore fan is like and if they want to attack me that's fine, I can always use a good laugh. I appreciate what you're saying but I honestly cannot understand why any thinking human being would purposly shoot themselves in the foot by not wanting to keep the fix for a game they paid for. I'm pointing this patch stuff out not just for myself but for all paying customers. Hell leave impulse running but provide stand alone patches to.
I'm not here saying the game sucks or that stardock sucks etc I'm simply asking why and I'm sorry but I a thinking person and don't just bob my head up and down even if the reason given makes no sense.
I'm saying that stardock is poorly serving "the customers" by not providing something that practially everyone else does and their excuses don't make logical sense. Most other game companies are happy to give you the fix for your game and let you keep it. Impulse doesn't prevent pirating and as for the expense to create a stand alone patch well the code for it has already been made, that's exactly what impulse is already doing. It's already been written, if you have impulse installed there it is guys your working patch installer the only thing it's doing differently is downloading the patch for you, it isn't magical. They were even making the patch installer up until 1.4
So if impulse doesn't prevent pirating which I think we can agree that it really doesn't and since impulse has to follow the same rules as a patch installer would the only real difference is that it downloads the patch for you but it still has to install it right? So those two reasons really don't make sense, so what's left? what other reason is there for forcing everyone to use impulse?
So my posts are here to get you to really _think_ about _why_ you are using impulse, and _why_ you will be holding the bag when and if stardocks goes out of business. Also to point out the value of stand alone patches and to see if Stardock if for real and is going to step up to the plate and deliver for ALL customers.
I don't really think Stardock wants everyone to be holding the bag if they go down and I have to believe that they want to serve those that paid for their game but you have to make choices right? We understand that the code needs to be protected and I can accept that but put in a system that makes sense, I don't appreciate going through hoops for no reason or being forced to use an intrusive 3rd party software program to update my game and I want to keep my fixes on my hard drive. I want to be able to install them on a computer with no internet and I want them in case SD goes offline. Its a totally reasonable request! It's not reasonable to expect someone to archive the entire freaking game and store all of that and to keep archiving it every single time a patch is produced. It's pretty standard, you install from your cd and apply the latest patch, there you go all done.
I think it's really in stardocks best interest to address this issue, I'm not the only one out there that doesn't like impulse so why not provide patches. They don't have to be once a week, I mean crap leave impulse running and put an update in there everyday if you want to and maybe throw a cumulitive stand alone patch out there once every 6 months or something. I don't think that's asking for much and I don't think I'm being unreasonable. Like I've said pretty much everyone else does that.
First of all, after patching, the game requires online activation. Impulse handles that silently and invisibly. A standalone patch would not help you if Stardock's servers are down or gone, since they are required for activation regardless of how you acquired the patch.
Secondly, Impulse patching works by checking the check-sum of every installed file against the one on the server, and downloading any that mismatch or are missing. This results in a minimum of required data transfer. To release a patch, Stardock simply updates the files on the server, update a version number, and replace the full download archives. Creating a standalone patch that can update any version to any other would not only result in far more strain to the download servers, it would also result in extra work for Stardock. Furthermore, a standalone patch that works just like Impulse does, with no extra effort, would be as big as the entire game, since every file needs to be there in case it is needed. Now, they do in fact have such a standalone 'patch', since that is indeed easy to create. It can be downloaded from http://anywhere.impulsedriven.com. It in fact uses Impulse to install the game, since that is indeed easiest. But it does require activation/unlocking, so it will do you no good if Stardock goes under.
No, Impulse does not prevent piracy. But it does prevent the Pirates from using Stardock's bandwidth to acquire their patches. It also results in them having to wait for someone to crack the new version, find out which files are changed, and create a standalone patch for them. He then has to acquire it, and install it manually. Using Impulse to auto-patch the game for you as soon as the new version is released is far more convenient for most people, which is the entire point.
You cannot prevent piracy without absolutely draconian methods, and even then you probably only delay them for a while. And after they have cracked your game, they have don't have to put up with said draconian copyright protection methods, making their experience superior. With Impulse, the customer's experience is superior: They can download the entire game from fast servers, even if they bought it retail. They have autopatching. Since the activation requirement is only added once you have used Impulse to update or download the game, and since said activation happens through Impulse, most customers do not even know said requirement exists.
If they would release standalone patches, users will come face to face with the activation requirement. The activation, since it no longer can happen automatically will become a hassle for customers. Sins of a solar empire was released prior to Impulse being ready. So they released standalone patches. None of those patches required the customer to activate their game. Then Impulse got released. They stopped issuing standalone patches, and silently introduced the activation requirement in the next Impulse-only patch. Since Impulse handled it silently, most customers to this day do not even know that Sins of a solar empire requires online activation. I had an argument about that with someone on these forums who could not believe the game had an activation requirement, even though he owned it. I had to explain all this and post screenshots of the activation dialog to convince him.
Copyright protection that is so unobtrusive that people cannot believe it is there is ideal. Stardock has never been Anti-DRM. They are Anti stupid DRM. Releasing standalone patches that will merely make their customers aware of their activation requirements is counter-productive for that reason, and therefore a waste of effort. Which is one of the reasons why you will never see standalone patches for Galactic civilizations 2.
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