I'm currently in the middle of a LAN multiplayer game with a friend and two AIs. We are in a "Random - Huge (Single)" map. The game ran very well for quite some time, but after several game hours (achieved by playing 90-min sessions over several days) the game has become unplayably slow. My friend's computer is running at maybe 1-2 FPS, and mine is maybe 10-15 FPS. I have tried lowering the graphics settings to their absolute lowest, and it doesn't speed up by even a fraction.
My computer specs are as follows:
Windows 7 Professional x64
Intel Core i7-920 @2.66GHz
9GB DDR3 RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 w/ 1.8GB RAM
My friend's computer specs are:
Intel Core 2 Duo @2.53GHz (sorry, don't know the exact model)
8GB RAM
ATI Radeon HD3450 (I believe)
Any suggestions on how to improve the game speed?
I think some of the other "Effects" settings may be more benficial to you. Specifically, on my laptop I always turn off "Show Asteroids", "Show Dust Clouds", "Show Planet Elevators", "Show Planet Rings", "Show Debris", and "Bloom Enabeled". That might help some if the graphics cards are having trouble. Of course, you have some damn good ones so....
If your problems are happening hours into giant games, it may be that you're running into RAM limitations. In addition to Sins simply edging up on the 2GB limit for any x86 process (which it is, even on your x64 systems), there are some suspected errors with Diplomacy and Windows 7 x64 not getting along. A suggestion here <https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/375022/page/1/#2533340> lets you modify the .exe to make use of more RAM (up to 4 GB). Obviously, be careful and back up your .exes when you do this, but it might solve your problems.
All of the special effects settings are turned off on my friend's computer. Turning them up and down on either/both computers makes no noticeable difference, nor does changing the screen res, so it's probably not a GPU issue.
I will try your RAM usage limit increase suggestion sometime today. Thanks!
OK, well your suggestion helped a little, but the game is still painfully slow. Neither RAM nor CPU usage is anywhere near the maximum.
I do have an idea: is it possible that having too many AutoSaves could cause this problem??
I doubt that you've got an autosave per second running, so it's surely something different.
About RAM: Reducing the graphics settings for vanilla Sins results in a RAM usage of about 400 Megabyte, thus it shouldn't be necessary to apply some patching in order to exceed the 2Gigabyte limitation just for testing.
Are you REALLY sure that CPU usage is low? My experience with Sins is, that it's taking a single core of the CPU and using that one at a permanent 100% load - even with the fastest CPUs available. That's the only speed problem I know, but it's so bad that I decided to return the game to the store. For example, on my i7 975 the total CPU load is very low with sins, but that doesn't matter, as Sins is a single core game and with one core at 100% and all others entirely idle, the total CPU load is very low, but the game is running into a CPU speed limitation.
It looks to me that a good gaming experience would require a single core processor in the range of 4 to 5 GHz.
Screet
Both computers autosave on a 60-second interval. But we have had it that way for several games now, and we have almost 500 MP autosaves by this point.
I suppose it's possible that SoaSE is maxing out the one core, but I have played much larger games (in SP) where that definitely DID happen, and the game was still much faster than it is right now. I have been playing SoaSE since March 2008, most of time on a Core 2 Duo @2.20GHz, only recently on an i7 @2.66GHz, and I have never had a game run this slow.
Much like everyone else on these forums, I agree that for a game like Sins to demand so much power, and then limit itself to only 2GB RAM and 1 CPU is senseless. I have games that are waaaay more demanding than Sins, that run just fine for me.
I am going to try to delete the old autosaves later today or Saturday, just to see if it helps. It is probably worth noting that this speed issue started shortly after I increased the autosaves to 60sec...
There are several threads that address this. But, seriously, by default 32 bit windows systems reserve half of the available ram for the kernel. Therefore, if 4GB is available then 2GB is reserved for the kernel. (Yes, we know you can change this through actions that are way too complicated for normal users). This means that only 2GB is available for your application. Ya, this game is single core, so what. It was released in 2008, probably designed and coded in 2007. They release games so they can be played on the majority of computers at the time.
Don't believe me about the ram, listen to frogboy then... https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/371164
Have you guys trimmed your Empire Trees?
Well, deleting the 450 extra autosaves and autoreplays did not work.
I am well aware of the dynamics of RAM allocation on a 32-bit system. And I get your point, but I have no other game that is as easy to overtax as SoaSE. My point is, if you're going to target 32-bit, you really should make it very very hard for the user to push the program/game past its boundaries. SoaSE just lags way too easily, and it doesn't seem to take very much at all for this game to fill that 2GB.
Additionally, dual-core was already becoming highly popular through the Core 2 Duo by the time SoaSE was developed and released. I think you will find that most games, while of course they want to maintain compatibility with low-end computers, are also built so that they are even better on more powerful computers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible to code a program/game so that it works with multiple cores, but also with a single core if that's all you have?
Try to understand, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a game being single-core and/or 32-bit. The problems arise when you put those limitations on a game that can overload those parameters so easily. I still greatly hope, whether IC's next project is a full expansion or Sins 2, that they can implement 64-bit support, or (since I know that's very hard) at least add multicore support (which I'm pretty sure is much easier).
Could you please tell me how to do that? I have a relatively few things I use that tree for, and my friend doesn't use it at all, and I would love to be able to reduce it's size, but I don't know how.
Disable Autopin for everything...in opitions. You will have to manually unpin Starbases.
You can further limit the empire tree by disabling it showing enemy ships with the tree. By going to user.settings file and looking for these lines:
IsEmpireWindowStacked TRUEMaxEmpireWindowStackSize 20AlwaysShowEmpireWindowFleets FALSEShowEmpireWindowFleets FALSEShowEmpireWindowBackdrop FALSEShowEmpireWindowAllies FALSEShowEmpireWindowEnemies FALSEAutoPinPlanets FALSEAutoPinCapitalShips FALSEAutoPinFrigates FALSE
Those are my setting I use. Also make sure you disable show Trade ship Icons. Its another FPS hog late game when you have 100's of thsoe things flying around.
I'm quite sure it is possible. However, my understanding is that Iron Clad was basically the equivalent of an Indie company at the time of Sins release. What they did accomplish with a limited budget is fairly amazing given I don't really know what their experiences were with game engine development at the time. Also, From most user accounts the game performed fairly well with the vanilla version and has more recently suffered performance wise with the two expansions.
My own experience with large scale software development dictates it is very difficult to change the core design after you reach critical mass. It is quite possible by the time they realized they could have taken better advantage of dual core systems they were too invested in the current approach and could not afford a change due to time or money. It's even excedingly more difficult to change a productionalized system even after it becomes apparent that major flaws are present in the design.
In any case I think the game is quite fun and have done things like trimming the empire tree. Reducing fleet size on large multistar maps and setting speed settings at normal or slow. I have also considered modding out mines since the AI likes to spam these resource hogs all over the place.
I would hope for much of the same. I have moved to 64-bit and am hopeful the PC gaming industry will as well.
If your gonna mod mines out, you might as well reduce SC squads by 1-2, Mod Trade ports to spawn 1 instead of 5, and/or you can reduce the mine count per well and up the damage. All things we have done in Distant Stars to help with end game lag. Reducing Trade ports ship spawns will give you the most bang for your time modding. End game in vanilla SINS can have 100's of these things flying around. And all they do is use CPU.
Since Sins now has a 2 gig "hard code" limit when it used to not have it. The hardcode happened just before Entrenchment. The 2 gig dumps have become more frequent since then.
The game does use both cores of a dual core cpu. My dual core pentium runs 50% each cpu while the game is running.
To get maximum performance out of Sins. Especially for the 2 gig, and under machines you need to disable almost everything in the "effects" options. Especially bloom.
Also turning off the skybox effects frees up ram tremendously. Disabling them frees up almost a good 200+ megs.
In your video settings turn off anti aliasing. If you are running on a large monitor (1680x1050) you dont really need it.
Play on smaller maps. Not over 4 players
Play with fewer factions, again not over 4
Hopefully the IC devs can find a way to make sins compatible for both 32, and 64 bit systems. Until then just nerf your settings.
@Major Stress:
Q1:What is bloom?
Q2:What are skybox effects?
Q3:Why don't you need anti-aliasing on a large monitor?
Thanks in advance for the answers!
PS Galciv2 was programmed to use more than one cpu core and is older than SINS
How can it do that if it's only using one thread? Could it be that it's 100% load on one core and then the thread jumps to the other core, maxing it out while the first core cools down, then jumps back? That's the experience I've had with QuadCore CPUs (Phenom and Core i7). However, at least with the current system (Core i7 975) there's no noticeable difference to lock the game to one core so that it doesn't jump.
I've only once read of someone who claimed that Sins would use his Dual Core and spread the load. However, that guy clearly didn't look, as he was then describing a strange understanding of CPU load: in his world, a dual core under full load would show 200% CPU load and a QuadCore 800% CPU load
Furthermore, I've got emails from tech support where they admit that Sins does only use one thread for gameplay. Two other threads are being used during the load phase, one for sound and one for graphics. However, during gameplay, it's single-threaded. I've even got a email where they admit missing multicore support and say that they had to print the logo for multicore support on the package in order to be able to get the games for windows logo.
BTW: Has anyone really ever had GPU limitations in the game? I've set my graphics card to maximum settings for Sins and Sins itself also to maximum. All that it does is to dramatically increase RAM usage (but no out of memory crashes) for better image quality. The graphics card doesn't even have to increase it's fan speed as it's still not pushing my card anywhere close to limits/heat like other games (which run faster!) do. Indeed, I can even enable the second monitor, play another game, run other apps or view a movie with HW acceleration there while keeping Sins running at exactly the same speed as before.
I think Ironclad is STILL an indie company. I agree with your observations about the game, going from vanilla to Entrenchment to Diplomacy.
And as Frogboy has said from time to time, 64-bit is the future. Almost every computer being sold with Windows 7, even the cheap ones, has enough RAM that they are now sold with 64-bit OS. Of course I hope that the PC gaming industry takes advantage of that too, but then I also know that some really high-quality games are 32-bit, and do just fine with it. I believe the Source engine is 32-bit, SupCom 2 I think is 32-bit, and I would even wager that games like Crysis are 32-bit. Sins is 32-bit, and can be easily overloaded by running the game at about half its capabilities. (4 players, one star map, etc).
I already have autopin disabled across the board, but my empire tree is still full of everything I've ever built. How do I manually get stuff to go away?
Already done all of that on both computers. Doesn't make any difference at all.
My point exactly.
I couldn't max out all settings on a GeForce 8600 GTS, without lagging to 5-10 FPS immediately upon starting a SOLO game. Every other, more powerful, GPU I've tried since has been just fine.
Still haven't figured this out ... how do I manually remove things from the empire tree?
Find whatever icon has the a pin icon over it then select it then click the pin/unpin button. All Starbases will autopin, you have to manualy remove each one.
Okay, well as far as I can tell, nothing is pinned. And yet, every ship, structure, and planet I have is still displayed in the tree.
I don't get how to get rid of the tree either...I have the settings uncheck and I still have to manually minimize it. It seems the tree is still there, its annoying when a planet tree randomly pops up.
You cant get rid of 100%. Its hard coded. When you select a planet its gonna show in the Empire tree. But if you have trimmed it...thats all that will show up...just the planet you have selected.
Okay, finally managed to get the empire tree emptied. But the game speed hasn't improved at all. In fact, our last game session, it actually got worse. My friend said his framerate was about 1/15 of a frame per second, or 1 frame every 15 seconds. Mine was better (<10 FPS), but actually had to pause every 10 seconds or so, for several mins at a time, to let my friend's computer catch up.
In adition to trying to find solutions in the game. A good fix could be to reset your virtual memory. Set it to "0", restart your pc then set it back up to where you like it.
Also clear temporary files.
You said the problem is getting worse, so besides more pc rescorces needed, if your vm is getting filled up, that would also make the game have to search more of the hdd to find what it needs.
When you do reset your vm, it will go slower at first as it builds its file base back up.
I personaly use a separte hdd just for vm and adobe scratch disk.Sure you have more of a sin up time, but while gaming i think it helps.
If the VM is related to the problem, could I buy myself some more performance by simply increasing its size?
Your hard drive is used as memory and it is set to a certain size. When it starts getting too much information in it, the files need to be purged (manually) as it acts like ram.
just give it a try.
Also, how do you get 9gigs of memory and still run in tripple channel? If you are running 2 sticks or 4 sticks, you are no longer in tripple channel, thus lowerin your memory bandwidth.
The most common memeory size is 2gb or 1gb 4x2gig is 8gb +a 1gb stick makes 9gb.
2x4gb is 8gb +a 1gb stick makes 9gb.
Someone correct me if i am wrong in my thinking, im still on ddr 2.
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