I have realised lately that store sell mostly console games and there are less and less PC games than there were before. Some people have even said that consolve games have improved so much than PC games are more than likely to dissapears, except of course for some small games like chess, hearts, etc.
It is true that the console world made a lot of improvements. Console games are now as powerful as PC games, they allow you to play online and they do not have the bugs of the PC: compatibility problems, crashes, etc. Like my friend once said: "when you want to play a console game, you place the game in the console, you push power and it works". The only advantage the PC game has right now, is that you can mod your game. Which is only a matter of time since consoles now have hard drives.
So my first question is: Do you think that professional video games would dissapear from the world of PC.
My second question is: Do you think this interest drop for PC games will hinder the sales of Elemental?
That would be me my feeling as well. B&M retailers are abandonding PC games, which is not problem for me since I use digital distribution primarily. Also, publishers are not releasing games in boxed retail versions like they used to. They rely more on digital distribution now. I think there will always be enough of a demand for PC games to keep new ones coming. Unfortunately, for some games, they're designed for consoles first then ported to PC.
I would imagine making games for consoles is a big draw for game developers. The market base is bigger and they don't have to deal with the DRM problem (as much). They also don't have to deal with a myriad of compatability issues. In a way, it filters out the mass production console crap from the PC. There are a lot of crappy console games we PC gamers never see. PC games have higher standards because PC gamers have higher expectations.
That is this, the 6th time we talk about PC games dying..? Isn't it enough now?? *SIGH*
I believe that people choose consoles since it's easier. PCgaming have become easier with every single Windows release (almost) but that's just not enough it seems....
I also believe that the lazy & dumb choose consoles over PC. One of my childhoodfriends (who is sligthly retarded) gave me the dumbest excuse for not getting a PC two years ago.
Campaigner
So why are you not getting a PC to game on? I'll help you with everything. Choosing parts, ordering, piecing it together, installing programs, updating, configuration etc.
Campaigners retardfriend
Frida (his ex girlfriend who got tired of his gamingaddiction and who also were slightly retarded though less than him) is already complaining that I play so much. If I got a computer as well she might leave me.
The obvious answer I thought up was: "And what the **** is stopping you from playing less on one console a day and playing on the PC instead??? Who the #%&! says you have to play more the more gaming systems you got??!
I never answered though since if that's the best argument he can come up with then it's no use to discuss further. And if I stress a subject then I just get the "But excuse MEEEE!" or "YEAH YEAH!"
Nowadays though I will never concede a topic.
No, I'm not worried. Do you really think there's *ANY* overlap between console gamers and fans of turn-based strategy games such as Elemental? srsly? RTSs are hard due to its input problems, but there's no reason not to have an Europa Universalis on the PS3 or an X3: Reunion on the Xbox360 other than the fact that knowledgeable people have looked at the market and determined it simply would not sell. Particularly the latter is telling, as there *is* a Linux version available: in other words, there are more potential buyers among the tiny userbase of desktop Linux than there are in the comparatively huge console userbase, simply by virtue of its different demographics. And until that changes, I simply can't see why I'd be worried.
Here is what is happening: The little bookstores are all closed and it's all Barnes and Noble. And Amazon. The little hi-fi stores are all closed and it's all BEST BUY and COSTCO.
Littles games are gone and it's all 'World of Warcraft', 'Civilization' and 'Battlefield'. And Steam - the online equivalent of 'Amazon'.
The big stuff gets bigger and the little stuff is gone. It's sad and I don't like it, but that's the future. People like Brad and Stardock are fighting the trend with quality and being good to their customers. I hope it works for them.
And console games? Run, jump, shoot, drive. I have ZERO interest in consoles. It's 2010 and if you look at a list of '20 best PS3 games' 19 of them will be shooters and drivers and sports games. The console industry has done pretty much ZIP to entice real PC gamers over to their hardware. Well, screw them. I'll play Civ and Elemental and Falcon 4.0 and X-Com and Ascendancy until I croak.
What are you talking about? There were several indie games this year and last and the year before that did very well, not just critically but financially? Good games sell whether they are "big" or "little". The important part is they have to be good. Stardock is certainly not alone in developing and publishing games outside of the behemoth enviorments known as EA, Activision and Ubisoft (I am sure there are more but not going to list them all).
That anology dons't work because those are providing the SAME product. The super market offers it for cheaper AND you can get other products there also.
Indie games are DIFFERENT from mass market offerings. Not better or worse. Different. Different audience. Different market and thus they don't really compete. In fact indie is growing to take the place of the mass market on PC as the publishers transition to a higher profit margin operrating procedure.
As you said you don't like the mass market console games so you don't buy them on PC so the publishers can't make zillions of bucks and so they say "Screw you PC guys! The console boys lap up this shaihat so were gonna serve that market exclusivly." Its actually more about the % console can bring in vs the % form PC. Its profit but the publishers don't care about a couple of hundred thousand here and there they care about the millions from the console. They just can't be bothered to spend that much effort for so little return. Quick console port for a little extra - no problem. Full dvelopment of a seperate interface and settings and other things? Not likely!
*note: I use indie and "small" interchangeably these days. You can still be a publisher and be a 'inide' level entity.
Yeah speak for yourself. I don't like Blizzard.
And the reason you're seeing fewer PC games on shelves is the explosion in digital distribution. As bandwidth becomes cheaper and physical distribution becomes more expensive, digital distribution makes more and more economic sense.
That is another thing, compared to the united states, here in canada all user's internet bandwith is limited. Apparently in the US, everybody got access to unlimited bandwith. So it makes it harder for example to download games on demand on the Xbox.
I have nothing against electronic distribution, and probably I could save some bandwith during a month to download elemental. But having a market only made of download hinder us. I currently have a 30 gig limit per month so it is not so bad. But if I had a lower internet package, my limit would have been around 3 gig.
I'm a full time PC gamer with only a Wii as my "current gen" console and I am a bit worried for PC gaming. While there are still plenty of games to play there are few AAA PC exclusives anymore and many PC games are also available on the consoles as well. There isn't any way of getting around the fact that consoles tend to be easier and I can see why many people have given up on PC gaming. Much of the decline of the PC market in recent years is primarily due to one thing; piracy.
Anyone who doesn't think that piracy is burying PC gaming is kidding themselves. Those freeloaders have brought on the introduction of more and more annoying forms of DRM and have pushed many publishers to go multiplatform or console exclusive. The thing the publishers fail to realize is once the pirates are done draining the carcass that is PC gaming, they'll just move their pirating efforts to the consoles. The only thing that is important to the pirates is to get their stuff for free. The reason piracy is so ramant on the PC vs console is easy to determine: Why try hard to pirate on the consoles when it is so easy on the PC?
I'll be a pure PC gamer until I have no other choice, but the single player PC gaming market certainly isn't doing as well as it once was. I love the openess of the platform and the customization options. Long live PC gaming!
As has already been said, it's an issue of supply and demand. As long as there are people who have PC and have money to spend on games, there will be PC games available. My concern is similar to Is35a's: that is, PC gaming will be dominated by a few large companies (i.e., EA, Blizzard, Valve/Steam, etc.) who will drive smaller, independent developers out of the market and increasingly restrict access to games through draconian DRM systems. I believe that quality and hard work tend to pay off, so there will always be smaller companies with good products around. However, the ever-escalating cost of making, advertising, and supporting PC games will probably minimize the number of small developers in the market.
I also think that PC gaming is a niche market, unlike consoles, and thus will always have limited appeal to the broad spectrum of gamers. It takes a dedicated person to maintain a gaming rig. Regularly upgrading RAM, graphics cards, CPU, operating sytem, etc. requires a certain kind of mentality and commitment (and finances!), unlikely simply owning a console that requires no such upkeep. And this is aside from all of the other stuff that PC gamers have to deal with as "normal" occurrences, such as crashes, freezes, incompatibility issues, multiplayer lag, and the occasional virus or malware.
I personally consider myself primarily a PC gamer. I like tweaking my machine and the ability to mod games. Also, I play a lot of RTS games, which are just better on PC. However, PC gaming is definitely not for everybody, and the console market--which has probably been bigger than the PC game market since the time of the Atari 2600--addresses a very reasonable desire of people to just play video games without worrying about all the stuff that can go wrong with PC hardware and software.
I'm not worried about PC games dieing, as firstly PC games have alot more customization(Look at Morrowind and oblivion and stardock games) Two, RTS arent very good for consoles but controls are better for computers and genres that controls suit the PC's will keep it alive. Three: Modding for consoles won't ever be possible, where would they get the mods from for a start?
To be honest i don't think most shops sell them because they think its a waste of money (Thats what gaming is about nowadays, money, also why everyone (with the exception of Stardock) piles there games with SecuRom and anything else they can think of)
Some people may prefer console games however because they don't need to install Programs like SecuRom, Viruses PC's messing up on you, and many other notable PC problems.
On the contrary. To get a gaming-capable PC all you need is a decent (~$80) GPU, anything else you likely already have on your 'regular' computer, there's no continuous upgrade necessary, at least not any faster than you need to upgrade consoles themselves, and at a lower cost (an ATI 5670 is far cheaper than a PS3).
Crashes, freezes and multiplayer lag are all a part of console gaming as well, viruses and malware aren't a problem for even semi-knowledgeable users (and if you aren't, you're dealing with them on your 'regular' computer regardless) so the only advantage is that you theoretically have no incompatibility issues to worry about. Theoretically, because my PS2's memory card somehow fails to be recognized by a couple games I own for some unknown reason, though generally speaking you're correct.
And indies are thriving now more than they've ever had since the days of shareware, just look at Torchlight for God's sake, all thanks to the enormous success of download services. Sure, most indies don't get much (if any) coverage on 'mainstream' gaming websites, but we all know how much *those* are worth (ie, zero). So no worries on that front either.
These are not the droids you're looking for.
Please don't say piracy favors consoles; 360 piracy is rampant. PS3 piracy is interestingly almost nonexistent but that may just be because all the pirates just have 360s.
Oh, and considering how many more titles 360 games sell compared to PS3 games, that would be a point against the "piracy costs us sales!" camp.
He can go along his business
And- no they'll always be PC gaming..just with more DRM that you can shake a mouse at.
Ain't no such thing as an console market. Everything is PC gaming. An xbox or PS3 is just an lavendered up desktop. I could convert one to run windows XP if I wanted to. Hell right now I am turning an old PIII dell and minimizing it so it can fit and boot inside an pelican case at the moment so it can control and operate an Underwater ROV.
The only difference is the input controls and techinally, even then, there is little difference. I can hook up a joystick or game controller to my desktop, woo LA I now has a "xbox". Hell the smartest thing a person could do is convert the xbox code into PC code so you can run your "console" (quotes cause i dispise the word console) games on your PC. But either way, PC Gaming ain't dying, just moving to an different form of input control is all.
And when the pirates move to XBOX 360, guess where the DRM sharks will go. A sticker for whoever guesses right. no replacing RTS's/MMORPG's though. That will remain.
Considering they both have processor architectures that Windows doesn't support, you'd have a fun challenge rearchitecting the kernel or emulating x86 with decent speed. Especially considering both consoles have weak integer ops, from what I've heard. (I read it so long ago I barely remember, heh. )
The original Xbox was just a weak PC, sure.
could be done though. Other crazy fans have.
*shrugs* But yeah.
Shhh. It's a secret remember. Can't pull away the biggest "fact" in argument against PC in favor of consoles now can we? Oh, the DS has a huge pirate following too.
If this true, then we must indeed have a dumbing down of the general population. Ill take this as proof if pc gaming is dying. There are hardly any console games out there that make you think.
pc gaming died?HEH not in my country at least
Since Microsoft's Windows is in 95% of the worlds computers, why cant 360 games run on pc? Or at least an add on card that allows it. btw die hard pc gamer here.
I have to disagree with the statement some people have made that consoles are free from bugs, compatibility issues, etc. and these issues seem to be getting more common as the technology gets more complex. From what I can tell consoles are getting more and more complicated. Gone are the days when you could just put a cartridge in and play. Now there are multiple product SKUs, patches to games, hard drive installs, firmware updates, lockout bugs like the recent leap year issue with the PS3, and the seemingly inevitable hardware failures on the XBox 360. The usability gulf between PC and console seems to be shrinking if anything.
The economics of this are important; although "supply and demand" has been mentioned a couple times, it's more complicated.
1. RELATIVE COST of DEVELOPMENT. PC games are substantially more costly to develop to a given grade. The proliferation of array of PC configurations means financial resources must be dedicated to accomodating more configs, and testing cost skyrockets.
2. ABSOLUTE COST of DEVELOPMENT. Big game budgets now rival some movie budgets. Substantial resources are invested, and investors want a return. Therefore, they aren't necessarily pro-PC or pro-console, but they want a strategy that will yield return - and the consequences of a string of failures are real - so there's a disincentive to risk. Piracy has been pointed out repeatedly as hurting the industry, and it's true - it simulates the effect of poor sales. Yet the question isn't really "how many people rip off your game" but "are you making enough sales to turn a profit?"
3. NATURE of the MARKET. I'm a 100% pc game player, but let's be honest: hardcore PC gamers who upgrade there rigs, etc. etc. are a fringe market. A relatively small number of companies will dedicate themselves to that. Consoles are more mainstream,at least partly due to ease of use & upkeep. You're "midline" PC game player isn't someone with a quad-core cutting-edge cryogenically cooled Alienware, with the hardcores being a niche. In reality, the ubiquity of PC technology probably means the PC games market is a tangled bank of overlapping niches. The wide distribution of PCs means PC gaming probably isn't going anywhere, but it's likely that devs will increasingly find a head-to-head competition against consoles for the "Avatar" of gaming experiences is a losing proposition. More technically modest games, directed at niches and runnable for mid-range machines (hence the bulk of the market) will probably be a better bet.
Of which Sins is a nice example.
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