http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/160556
"CLIMATE scientists yesterday stunned Britons suffering the coldest winter for 30 years by claiming last month was the hottest January the world has ever seen.The remarkable claim, based on global satellite data, follows Arctic temperatures that brought snow, ice and travel chaos to millions in the UK.At the height of the big freeze, the entire country was blanketed in snow. But Australian weather expert Professor Neville Nicholls, of Monash University in Melbourne, said yesterday: “January, according to satellite data, was the hottest January we’ve ever seen."
Wow!.
Global warming must be real! We really need to takes some serious steps to curtail this planetary heat wave, which threatens to cover so much of the earth in snow and ice!!!
This warming trend that has brought record high global temperatures this past month, and year (indeed this past decade - even though it has been admitted by the lead 'scientist' that there has been no significant warming in the past 15 years...), and record snowfalls to so many areas on the planet, must be STOPPED!!!
The only way I can see to do it effectively is to cap CO2 emissions, or at least introduce a trade system whereby heavily polluting industries can buy 'carbon credits' from lesser polluters so they can keep pumping out their normal amounts whilst passing the costs onto the stupid consumers.
Funny, but I don't see anything about how much higher the temps were. And I don't see anything about which data was used, or how much it would cost if a private person were to try and recreate the data. Because I just did a search on my local area of San Diego. The data I wanted, from just three stations in my area, would cost me nearly $700 to obtain.
When will the madness end? We are burning up, even as we are trying so desperately to keep warm.
Our coastal cities are being flooded as we type - so 'they' say.
Nero fiddled as Rome burned. Are we doing the same?
Or, did he know something we have yet to grasp?
Maybe we simply need to live and adapt with an ever changing planet, instead of trying to be control-freaks that try to control even Mother Nature.
Well the fact that you didn't specify home property is the very reason why I did. Second, you assume that all those business owners DO own their property. A huge chunk of them DON'T own their property, they either lease or are a tenant of another owner property (malls/plazas are a perfect example). Therefore, they wouldn't be able to make changes to the property even if they wanted to...unless it were mandated or the property owner allowed it. Also, the very reason that they DO allow people on to their property is the reason why they should take some responsibility for their well being. Before some of the smoking bans took place, bar owners were crying out how it would hurt their business...now as it turns out it has actually done the opposite for most of them.
Yes, I am such a commie!
Owning a business is not the same as owning the property.
OMG, and here I was thinking that a person is only able to ever work one job! Silly me. Forget the fact that he makes over $2,500 dollars a day working for oil and coal interests.
http://dieoff.org/page82.htm
I'm not saying it is bad to accept such "donations", but when such transactions occur on your end, Lindzen can hardly turn the ball around and say it is wrong for the other end to accept funding from people/organizations who are concerned about AGW.
I hate to be the one to bring this discussion back on topic...
Here's a recent article relating to global warming "consensus"
World may not be warming, say scientists
"John Christy, professor of atmospheric science at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, a former lead author on the IPCC."
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=903
Associated with all the usual suspects, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, Cato Institute, George C. Marshall Institute, Cooler Heads Coalition and the Heartland Institute.
You should also read Should you believe anything John Christy and Roy Spencer say?
Again someone whose credentials cannot be ignored although he does have a demonstrated history of having an agenda and his share of warts.
So OK. As I said there are a handful of skeptics that have advanced degrees in climate related fields, have years of experience in the field and in many case have published many peer reviewed articles in respected journals.
So to be gracious I grant Lindzen, Christy, Spencer and Pielke (Sr. not Jr.) are credible climate scientists that have expressed views that do not in all cases agree with the consensus. However like I said this is just a handful, but even this handful is particularly telling. These are all people that are totally familiar with the peer reviewed publishing process and yet *none* of them regardless of their otherwise published opinions has managed to write a peer reviewed article that disproves the basic tenents of AGW. If folks like this can't do it then no one can.
All you're demonstrating is that there are a handful of contrarians that are fully qualified climate scientists that due to their own personal agendas are against AGW. If it was based on the science instead of being ideological then they would be able to prove it in the literature. They haven't because they can't, at worst they've been able to point out a minor discrepancy or two that is soon corrected one way or the other but they have proven nothing that disproves the consensus. If you want they are the exception that proves the rule.
Mumbles! I found you a list. Can you drop this peer review nonsense now? Use a search engine or something and stop reading left wing blogs to get all your information.
Clonmac, I'm just going to pretend I didn't see the first half of your post. This arguing with something I didn't say nonsense was old a long time ago.
It's going to take major surgery to remove your head from your ass at this rate. One day. Not $2500 a day for some indeterminate length of time, one bleeding day. Bullshit like this is why I fact check every detail of your posts. You're some sort of stupid lemming that will fly off with the first thing he sees. It's from Harpers, don't you know they have a history of fudging, when not flat making things up?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harper%27s_Magazine#Controversies
Considering he had to fly to D.C. and testify before a Senate comittee, he was probably severely under-paid. I'd hold out for a much bigger check before subjecting myself to the brain drain.
And you should stop getting all your information from right wing blogs.
You can be so hysterically funny at times, Mumbles.
All you do is post a link to an article on a right wing blog which takes you like 2 seconds whereas if I want to shed doubt on your assertion I have to go through each of the referenced links and show how each has already been debunked.
And how do I know that every single one of the peer reviewed articles in your list has already been debunked? Well for one I recognize many of them having encountered them previously but the main reason I know that they've already been dismissed by main stream climatology is that if they haven't then for one it would be front page news that Fred Singer has proven AGW is a lie and we also wouldn't have every single organization on the planet that contains a climate scientist continue to back their published position statements supporting the two basic premises of AGW.
So I'm certainly not going to wade through your list trying to show how each and every link is somehow misleading at best or intentionally false at worst. Also as I've said countless times, I'm not trying to change your opinion, I'm only presenting evidence to those willing to listen.
Since the first group of articles on your list deal with a 1500 year climate cycle I'll begin with a response to that.
Perhaps I'll respond to more on your list if I feel like it later.
You keep posting these idiotic videos that are all made by one arrogant asshole who's actually pretentious enough to claim facts from a field of science that can't even get within 50% of the mark on predictions after trying for two decades to make a working model that backs up the AGW claim. Meanwhile, you rabidly attack anything in any way related to a "blogger" that isn't a scientists, and often ones that are simply because they aren't specifically climatologists. Has the hypocrisy of this ever occured to you?
He's a fucking cartoonist. An environmentalist wackjob of a cartoonist that's wanted us all to live without an energy footprint for decades. Since Watts isn't qualified because he's only a meteorologist, I guess his qualifications are that he humps trees and uses his special relationship with them the gain information?
Choke on it and have a nice day.
Since you seem to want to compare and contrast Watts and Sinclair it seems fitting to respond with this video that Watt's tried unsucessfully to remove from Youtube.
I love the quote about a "junior woodchuck society of camera toting climate sleuths."
Funny how the Heartland Institute seems to come up time and time again.
Reprinted from http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/01/peer-review-a-necessary-but-not-sufficient-condition/
Peer Review: A Necessary But Not Sufficient Condition
by Michael Mann and Gavin Schmidt
On this site we emphasize conclusions that are supported by “peer-reviewed” climate research. That is, research that has been published by one or more scientists in a scholarly scientific journal after review by one or more experts in the scientists’ same field (‘peers’) for accuracy and validity. What is so important about “Peer Review”? As Chris Mooney has lucidly put it:
[Peer Review] is an undisputed cornerstone of modern science. Central to the competitive clash of ideas that moves knowledge forward, peer review enjoys so much renown in the scientific community that studies lacking its imprimatur meet with automatic skepticism. Academic reputations hinge on an ability to get work through peer review and into leading journals; university presses employ peer review to decide which books they’re willing to publish; and federal agencies like the National Institutes of Health use peer review to weigh the merits of applications for federal research grants.
Put simply, peer review is supposed to weed out poor science. However, it is not foolproof — a deeply flawed paper can end up being published under a number of different potential circumstances: (i) the work is submitted to a journal outside the relevant field (e.g. a paper on paleoclimate submitted to a social science journal) where the reviewers are likely to be chosen from a pool of individuals lacking the expertise to properly review the paper, (ii) too few or too unqualified a set of reviewers are chosen by the editor, (iii) the reviewers or editor (or both) have agendas, and overlook flaws that invalidate the paper’s conclusions, and (iv) the journal may process and publish so many papers that individual manuscripts occasionally do not get the editorial attention they deserve.
Thus, while un-peer-reviewed claims should not be given much credence, just because a particular paper has passed through peer review does not absolutely insure that the conclusions are correct or scientifically valid. The “leaks” in the system outlined above unfortunately allow some less-than-ideal work to be published in peer-reviewed journals. This should therefore be a concern when the results of any one particular study are promoted over the conclusions of a larger body of past published work (especially if it is a new study that has not been fully absorbed or assessed by the community). Indeed, this is why scientific assessments such as the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment (ACIA), or the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports, and the independent reports by the National Academy of Sciences, are so important in giving a balanced overview of the state of knowledge in the scientific research community.
There have been several recent cases of putatively peer-reviewed studies in the scientific literature that produced unjustified or invalid conclusions. Curiously, many of these publications have been accompanied by heavy publicity campaigns, often declaring that this one paper completely refutes the scientific consensus. An excellent account of some of these examples is provided here by Dr. Stephen Schneider (Stanford University).
Perhaps the most publicized recent example was the publication of a study by astronomer Willie Soon of the Harvard University-affiliated Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and co-authors, claiming to demonstrate that 20th century global warmth was not unusual in comparison with conditions during Medieval times. Indeed, this study serves as a prime example of one of the "myths" that we have debunked elsewhere on this site. The study was summarily discredited in articles by teams of climate scientists (including several of the scientists here at RealClimate), in the American Geophysical Union (AGU) journal Eos and in Science. However, it took some time the rebuttals to work their way through the slow process of the scientific peer review. In the meantime the study was quickly seized upon by those seeking to sow doubt in the validity behind the scientific consensus concerning the evidence for human-induced climate change (see news articles in the New York Times, and Wall Street Journal). The publication of the study had wider reverberations throughout the academic and scientific institutions connected with it. The association of the study with the “Harvard” name caused some notable unease among members of the Harvard University community (see here and here) and the reputation of the journal publishing the study was seriously tarnished in the process. The editor at Climate Research that handled the Soon et al paper, Dr. Chris de Frietas, has a controversial record of past editorial practices (see this 'sidebar' to an article in Scientific American by science journalist David Appell). In an unprecedented (to our knowledge) act of protest, chief editor Hans Von Storch and 3 additional editors subsequently resigned from Climate Research in response to the fundamental documented failures of the editorial process at the journal. A detailed account of these events are provided by Chris Mooney in the Skeptical Inquirer and The American Prospect, by David Appell in Scientific American, and in a news brief in Nature. The journal’s publisher himself (Otto Kline) eventually stated that “[the conclusions drawn] cannot be concluded convincingly from the evidence provided in the paper”.
Another journal which (quite oddly) also published the Soon et al study, “Energy and Environment”, is not actually a scientific journal at all but a social science journal. The editor, Sonia Boehmer-Christensen, in defending the publication of the Soon et al study, was quoted by science journalist Richard Monastersky in the Chronicle of Higher Education somewhat remarkably confessing “I’m following my political agenda — a bit, anyway. But isn’t that the right of the editor?”.
Shaviv and Veizer (2003) published a paper in the journal GSA Today, where the authors claimed to establish a correlation between cosmic ray flux (CRF) and temperature evolution over hundreds of millions of years, concluding that climate sensitivity to carbon dioxide was much smaller than currently accepted. The paper was accompanied by a press release entitled "Global Warming not a Man-made Phenomenon", in which Shaviv was quoted as stating, “The operative significance of our research is that a significant reduction of the release of greenhouse gases will not significantly lower the global temperature, since only about a third of the warming over the past century should be attributed to man”. However, in the paper the authors actually stated that “our conclusion about the dominance of the CRF over climate variability is valid only on multimillion-year time scales”. Unsurprisingly, there was a public relations offensive using the seriously flawed conclusions expressed in the press release to once again try to cast doubt on the scientific consensus that humans are influencing climate. These claims were subsequently disputed in an article in Eos (Rahmstorf et al, 2004) by an international team of scientists and geologists (including some of us here at RealClimate), who suggested that Shaviv and Veizer’s analyses were based on unreliable and poorly replicated estimates, selective adjustments of the data (shifting the data, in one case by 40 million years) and drew untenable conclusions, particularly with regard to the influence of anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations on recent warming (see for example the exchange between the two sets of authors). However, by the time this came out the misleading conclusions had already been publicized widely.
Next, we discuss the first of three so-called “bombshell” papers that supposedly "knock the stuffing out of" the findings of the IPCC. Patrick Michaels and associates billed his own paper (McKitrick and Michaels, 2004) (co-authored by Ross McKitrick), this way:
After four years of one of the most rigorous peer reviews ever, Canadian Ross McKitrick and another of us (Michaels) published a paper searching for “economic” signals in the temperature record. … The research showed that somewhere around one-half of the warming in the U.N. surface record was explained by economic factors, which can be changes in land use, quality of instrumentation, or upkeep of records.
It strikes us as odd, to say the least, that, after one of the “most rigorous peer reviews ever”, nobody involved (neither editor, nor reviewers, nor authors) seems to have caught the egregious basic error that the authors mistakenly used degrees rather then the required radians in calculating the cosine functions used to spatially weight their estimates**. This mistake rendered every calculation in the paper incorrect, and the conclusions invalid — to our knowledge, however, the paper has not yet been retracted. Remarkably, there were still other independent and equally fundamental errors in the paper that would have rendered it entirely invalid anyway. To the journals credit, they published a criticism of the paper by Benestad (2004) to this effect. It may come as no surprise that McKitrick and Michaels (2004) was published in Climate Research and was handled by none other than Chris de Frietas.
The other two “bombshell” papers were published in the AGU journal Geophysical Research Letters (GRL) which publishes over 1500 papers per year. It can be conservatively estimated that they publish no more than 70% of the papers received, and thus probably process over 2000 papers per year. That gives each of the typically 8 or so editors of the journal almost a paper per day to evaluate. While GRL publishes many excellent papers and provides an important forum to the research community for rapid publication of important results, occasionally, poor papers slip through the net. These two papers were authored by Douglass and collaborators (Douglass et al, 2004a;2004b) the first with Fred Singer as a co-author and the second with both Singer and Michaels. Both papers*** argue that recent atmospheric temperatures have been cooling, rather than warming, based on the analysis of data over a selective (1979-1996) time interval that eliminates periods of significant warming both before and after, and using a controversial satellite-derived temperature record whose robustness has been called into question by other teams analysing the data. An excellent discussion of both papers is provided by Tim Lambert.
Another relevant GRL paper was the article by Legates and Davis (1997) which criticized the use of “centered correlations” common to numerous "Detection and Attribution" studies supporting the detection of human influence on recent climate change. They argued that correlations could increase while observed and simulated global means diverge. However, as pointed out in the chapter on Detection and Attribution in IPCC (2001)*, centered correlations were introduced for precisely this reason: to provide an indicator that was statistically independent of global mean temperature changes. As noted by the IPCC, “if both global mean changes and centered pattern correlations point towards the same explanation of observed temperature changes, it provides more compelling evidence than either of these indicators in isolation”. Again, a basic logical flaw in the authors’ criticism of past work was not caught in peer review.
Next, we consider the paper by Soon et al (2004) published in GRL which criticized the way temperature data series had been smoothed in the IPCC report and elsewhere. True to form, contrarians immediately sold the results as ‘invalidating’ the conclusions of the IPCC, with the lead author Willie Soon himself writing an opinion piece to this effect. Once again, a few short months later, a followup article was published by one of us (Mann, 2004) that invalidated the Soon et al (2004) conclusions, demonstrating (with links to supporting Matlab source codes and data) how (Α) the authors had, in an undisclosed manner, inappropriately compared trends calculated over differing time intervals and (Β) had not used standard, objective statistical criteria to determine how data series should be treated near the beginning and end of the data. It is unfortunate that a followup paper even had to be published, as the flaws in the original study were so severe as to have rendered the study of essentially no scientific value.
There are other examples of studies that have even been published in high quality venues that were heavily publicized at the time, but in retrospect were flawed (though not as egregiously as the examples above). For instance, Fan et al (1998), on the size of the carbon sink in the continental US, rebutted by Schimel et al. (2000). Or the solar-cycle length/climate correlation described by Friis-Christensen and Lassen (1991) whose seeemingly impressive correlation for the latter half of the 20th Century disappears if you don’t change the averaging scheme half way along (Laut, 2003; Damon and Laut, 2004).
The current thinking of scientists on climate change is based on thousands of studies (Google Scholar gives 19,000 scientific articles for the full search phrase “global climate change”). Any new study will be one small grain of evidence that adds to this big pile, and it will shift the thinking of scientists slightly. Science proceeds like this in a slow, incremental way. It is extremely unlikely that any new study will immediately overthrow all the past knowledge. So even if the conclusions of the Shaviv and Veizer (2003) study discussed earlier, for instance, had been correct, this would be one small piece of evidence pitted against hundreds of others which contradict it. Scientists would find the apparent contradiction interesting and worthy of further investigation, and would devote further study to isolating the source of the contradiction. They would not suddenly throw out all previous results. Yet, one often gets the impression that scientific progress consists of a series of revolutions where scientists discard all their past thinking each time a new result gets published. This is often because only a small handful of high-profile studies in a given field are known by the wider public and media, and thus unrealistic weight is attached to those studies. New results are often over-emphasised (sometimes by the authors, sometimes by lobby groups) to make them sound important enough to have news value. Thus “bombshells” usually end up being duds.
However, as demonstrated above, even when it initially breaks down, the process of peer-review does usually work in the end. But sometimes it can take a while. Observers would thus be well advised to be extremely skeptical of any claims in the media or elsewhere of some new “bombshell” or “revolution” that has not yet been fully vetted by the scientific community.
*Note added 1/21/05: It has come to our attention that Legates and Davis (1997) were similarly rebutted in a separate publication by Wigley et al (2000).
**Note added 1/21/05: McKitrick and Michaels have published an errata correcting the degrees/radians error in CR 27, 265-268 which now shows that latitude correlates much better with temperature trends than any economic statisitic.
***Note added 1.25.05: Chip Knappenberger correctly points out that the the second Douglass et al paper doesn’t actually make the claim that the atmosphere is cooling. We therefore withdraw that specific comment, but note that the comment concerning the selective use of data series and time periods stands.
Ummmm, no. Not one freakin' day...sorry. Here is a short fact sheet about where some of the money the organizations he works for get their money:
FACTSHEET: Richard LindzenORGANIZATIONS---The Annapolis Center for Science-Based Public PolicyThe Annapolis Center for Science-Based Public Policy has received $688,575 from ExxonMobil since 1998.---Cato Institute : TASSC Fred Singer, TASSC Patrick J. Michaels, TASSC Steve MilloyCato Institute has received $90,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.KOCH OIL Funding Cato Institute = $12,999,240SCAIFE OIL FORTUNE Funding Cato Institute = $2,057,500White Star Oil Fortune (Earhart Foundation) Funding Cato Institute = $217,600OLIN Munitions & Chlorine-DDT Funding Cato Institute = $832,500---Tech Central Science Foundation or Tech Central Station : TASSC Patrick J. Michaels, TASSC Michael Fumento, TASSC Steven Milloy, Tech Central Science Foundation or Tech Central Station has received $95,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.KOCH OIL Funding Tech Central Science Foundation = $25,000NOTE: Because TCS website runs paid commercial advertising, incomes from this is NEVER reported as charitable gifts by either the donor or receiver. The parent to TCS is DCI PR firm, whose incomes are likewise not reported publically, nor do client corporations necessarily report the payments to the public. A lot of EXXON ads run on TCS webpages, perhaps a disguised form of giving as it's doubtful that EXXON needs brand advertising to get people to fill up at the Tech Corner Station -- if internet ads were proven effective there would be EXXON ads everywhere on the net.---George C. Marshall Institute : TASSC Hugh Ellsaesser, TASSC Fred Seitz, TASSC Bruce Ames, (member of the Cooler Heads Coalition, associate of Competitive Enterprise Inst. Front Group for BIG OIL) George C. Marshall Institute has received $630,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.KOCH OIL Funding George C. Marshall Institute = $30,000SCAIFE OIL FORTUNE Funding George C. Marshall Institute = $2,827,500White Star Oil Fortune (Earhart Foundation) Funding George C. Marshall Institute = $100,000OLIN Munitions & Chlorine-DDT Funding George C. Marshall Institute = $350,000
For the extended version of the above visit:
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/ScienceCop/comment.html?entrynum=36&tstamp=200606
You see, just because you aren't on a company's payroll, doesn't mean that the income you receive didn't come from them. He is so intertwined with Oil and Coal interests, that you could easily follow the paper trail back to see that a large portion of his income does indeed have ties with oil and coil.
But again, like I said earlier, I DON'T CARE WHERE HE GETS HIS MONEY FROM. The only reason why I am saying any of this is because he is a hypocrit who called other scientists out about where they got their money from when he is no different.
To me personally, I could care less about who throws how much money at AGW. If companies want to put money toward it, good for them. It will only lead to more funding for better research in the long run.
But, Lindzen, don't be a hypocrit and cry out tainted funding when yours is no cleaner.
Here is some more Lindzen info for some reading:
http://www.logicalscience.com/skeptics/Lindzen.htm
If your gonna post links from people who aren't climatologists, then you shouldn't be acting the way you do towards skeptics. That was his point, and it obviously went straight over your head.
Yes, one freakin' day. Stop trying to defend that piece of shit article. The date ranges you just posted to defend it start three years after it was put out anyway. The guy is a lying asshole. Lindzen can be as crooked as it gets, it's irrelevant to the accuracy of that bullshit reporting you and most of the AGW community can't seem to stop repeating as fact.
While you're getting excited over a few million spread over a decade to multiple organizations with hundreds of members, try thinking about it in context. MIT gets nearly half a billion a year specifically in research funding from Uncle. Meanwhile Exxon pisses into the wind, wishing they had even a tenth of that in profits.
When and where skeptics use legitimate scientists to promote their case I use more legitimate scientists to debunk them. If someone uses non-scientists to argue their case then then I see no issue in using non-scientists to debunk them even while one of my prime arguments is that you cannot make an argument based on an appeal to authority when in fact the person you're appealing to is not an authority. If we're all going to argee to stop quoting non-qualified scientific sources that would be fine with me. Of course that would leave you with virtually nothing to say, but that's fine with me as well.
However as long as the skeptics keep throwing people like Watts, McIntyre, Michaels and even D'Aleo at me then I feel I'm free to respond with folks like Sinclair and others.
In actuality I've presented multiple pieces of evidence in response to psycho's posting of a small list of peer-reviewed "skeptical" articles. For one I posted the video that you're complaining about that addressed the 1500 year Dansgaard-Oeschger events. I could have as easily instead posted links to scientific papers that make the same conclusion that D-O events result in warming of the north hemisphere at the expense of cooling in the southern hemisphere and thus represent no net global warming.
For example,
Atlantic Ocean heat piracy and the bipolar climate see-saw during Heinrich and Dansgaard-Oeschger eventsRapid changes of glacial climate Simulated global-scale response of the climate system to Dansgaard/Oeschger and Heinrich events The North Atlantic's 1-2 kyr Climate Rhythm: Relation to Heinrich Events, Dansgaard/Oeschger Cycles and the Little Ice AgeStrong hemispheric coupling of glacial climate through freshwater discharge and ocean circulationAsynchrony of Antarctic and Greenland climate change during the last glacial period
I could easily go on here but instead of "choking" you with a bunch of dry scientific papers I instead posted a short video that addressed both D-O events plus a number of other associated issues. I guess that's my bad. Also note that although Sinclair is not a climate scientist he does in fact reference scientific articles to support his position. For example he referenced Asynchrony of Antarctic and Greenland climate change during the last glacial period in his video although admittedly it can be difficult to pick up the reference.
However Sinclair's video was by no means my *only* response to psycho's list. He responded mentioning Watts so another Sinclair video that specifically addressed Watts seemed to be in order.
Similarly there is plenty of debunking of Watts out there if you care to look but of course skeptics don't really care to do that, they prefer to bury their heads in the sand instead. Again Sinclair did not make statements on his own authority but went directly to NOAA and referenced their response to Watts. This can be found at http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/about/response-v2.pdf which is the source of the graph in Sinclair's video.
Finally I responded with an article from Michael Mann and Gavin Schmidt regarding peer review as a necessary but not sufficient condition.
This article addressed a number of skeptical "peer review" articles directly along with numerous links to supporting documentation and basically concluded that most skeptical papers have had demonstrated fatal flaws, that even those that haven't yet merely haven't because the peer reviewed responses take time to occur and that for every peer reviewed skeptical paper that seems to deny AGW there are literally thousands of peer reviewed papers suggesting totally the opposite.
So the bottom line is that my preference is to supply concise scientific response to the drivel that psycho and the like put forward but I readily admit my short comings and in reality I can't always find the proper response. If I was more familiar with the peer reviewed literature then I'm sure there is a proper scientific response to each and every claim that has been put forward. This is not a failure of the science it's a failure of my ability to simply find the proper response. In any case like I said earlier if you want to agree to drop all non scientifically credible source of argument that's fine by me but that will leave you with far less to say than it will me.
So he posts the same outdated information used in the video to criticize Watts when they've since corrected that climb by over half a degree downward.
Did you take an hour to post that or are you just ignoring that you're wrong again?
More like you fight stupid with stupid.
/relurks
You could try strapping on a pair of balls yourself then perhaps you'd be brave enough to offer your own arguments pro or con instead of just sniping from the sidelines.
That's a copout if I've ever seen one. Your just making excuses for bullshit now.
What "evidence" do you provide along with your pronouncements?
Oh gee the great Dark Knight has pronounced my reply "bullshit". Oh gee, I'm crushed.
Perhaps if you've ever given any evidence of having, like, graduated from high school then perhaps your opinion might have greater value.
You might start out by figuring out when to use "you're" instead of "your" because you clearly haven't mastered that technique.
So let's see what evidence *you* provide. Nothing in #220, #213, #149, #147, #139 actually provides a link "proving" Al Gore grew tobacco, #138, #121, #120, #97, #96, #44, #43.
So 12 replies most of which are one or two liners and only one case where you've backed up anything you said with something other than because you say so. Wow impressive! And then the one fact you chose to back up is that Al Gore grew tobacco, good choice!
Why don't you go back through this thread and count how many pieces of evidence I've provided in my replies that are *not* merely *because I say so*.
For one I'm not sure you could even count that high but certainly it would be a benefit for you to at least try to expand your mind if only a little bit.
That's another way to tell the difference between a denier and a proponent. Most proponents throughout this thread and other related threads provide link after link to evidence that backs up their claims. And while an occasional denier may provide a link or two the difference is overwhelmingly in favor of the proponent, just as the scientists and the science are overwhelmingly in favor of the proponent.
Are you getting desperate, becoming a grammar cop?
I find it interesting how much time and effort you are putting into your attempt to sway the 'unbelievers'.
It almost seems like you are a paid proponent.
If you scan your replies you'll also find a lack of any evidence used to back up what you're saying.
Are you serious? That just shows how delusional you are. In 2008 Exxon set a record for company profits in the 3rd quarter with the sky rocketing oil prices. Since then their profits have dropped continuously, but that by no means puts them in the realm of "wishing that had even a tenth of $500,000,000 in profits." Why is that? Because in 2009 they posted $19.3 billion in profits. They're still the most profitable US corporation. I think you need some perspective, not me. Even after having 5 straight quarters of profit drops, they still make about 5 billion more in profits than Wal-mart and Microsoft.
So that is what? More than 38 times higher profits than what you claimed?
Also, I wasn't talking about research funding. Lindzen was the bitch crying about where other people's research funding was coming from, not me. I was calling him a hypocrit when he takes personal money from interests no more cleaner than what he was crying about.
When was the last time Lindzen had any research paper published? How about instead of staying in the spotlight of the media and being Big Oil's spokesman he do some research that would actually be of some use to climatology.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account