I’m a Shacknews junkie and was reading about Valve’s announcement of Steam’s growth last year. I was pretty jazzed at the news as it means that the trend to digital is continuing and widespread. Impulse’s growth, not surprisingly due to its relatively smaller size, was much higher than 205% but that’s only because Impulse is still in its early growth phase, it hasn’t reached maturation like Steam – that’s why Steam’s strong growth is such good news – the market isn’t even close to saturation.
I suspect Direct2Drive, GOG, GamersGate and the others have experienced similar levels of growth too. It’s a good time to be a PC gamer. Regular sales, competition. Do they have weekly sales in the console universe?
TBH, every time i see a thread about how we need to cater to female gamers more i just don't get it. Being able to make a female character? The options for female character are probably MORE deveolped then the male character. Most of the gamers i know pick female character regardless of what gender they actually are, after all, crude as it may be, if you are going to be staring at someone's ass for the next 20 hours, i would rather it be a female ass. In most rpg games the only romance options that are missing are the guy on guy ones, male-female and female-female are there.
It seems to me that this is more an issue of political correctness then a real problem.
Right because men and women like exactly the same thing in the rest of their lives right... or wait, no, no we don't do we? See you're making the same mistake most the industry does, you're making assumptions instead of... just asking. It is no secret that the bulk of the gaming industry caters to young white males. If other people like their games, its pure accident, not intentional.
Women gamers in general just want to be catered to like everyone else. Whether that means to continue to pump out Pogo games for my aunt, she loves those, throw out mario games for my lil sisters, (she's not a child), or make me a new x-com game, the fact is most dedvelopers and publishers never pay attention either way. It is no surprise to me that the Sims series reportedly has an unusually larger number of women on their development teams, and what do you know, women, in large numbers, really like that series. Of course when you are dealing with an abysmal 12% working in the industry, a large number could be 1 or 2 instead of zero for all I know.
I don't know what opposite means either because no one said it was opposite except for you. I have seen developers do that though, decide that selling for women means selling "pink" games to girls which are typically crappily made and sell like garbage. That's just some pencil pusher guessing instead of actually doing the leg work and figuring out what that part of the market wants.
Personally I can't say much about elemental. I am interested in it, but I don't do pre-orders so am not part of the beta process. Judging from the 4% of women on these forums, my guess is there aren't many women in the beta process either. I could be wrong of course.
Neverwinter nights, had 2 or 3 prostitutes each with side-quests for males and the ability to sleep with them. If you played a female character, there was one male prostitute, 1 side quest and no ability to sleep with him. Why do you think that is? Keeping in mind, this is optional. I enjoy playing female characters. Not all women do. When I play with my 3-4 girls in left 4 dead, one of us get to play Zoey. I kind like Francis anyway so that doesn't bother me. It does bother someone else. The fact that some guys like to play women to stare at doesn't change the fact that many of the women gamers I play with appreciate having the option to play a woman. We typically don't like to see half-ass jobs where you can pick an avatar of some sort, female, but the entire game refers to you as "he". I don't always choose the female characters either.
Let's see in Jade Empire you got two choices a female, sky or the princess. As a male you get dawn, the princess or sky.
And the hey they let you be women characters for the guys sake might be true in a game like bayonetta, but I don't think that was necessarily true for something like Jade Empire or even Neverwinter Nights just because some guys might choose to play that way.
Oh right, so you’re saying you like shit games then? what I was alleging was that good games are good games, regardless of who they’re supposedly catering to. If women don’t like shooters or strategy titles or racing games or RPGs, what games do they like then? And if they DO like such games, exactly how would you advise catering to the female gamer in such titles?
Like I said, good games are good games. They don’t need to be “catered” to anyone in terms of sex, race or class.
You’re just proving my point…Women gamers are no different to men; they enjoy games based on personal preference, not some weird biological determinism. First you would have to identify the fundamental differences between the gaming sexes before you argue that developers should pay attention or treat gamers as two distinct groups based on gender.
You're not seriously suggesting that women and minorities and the elderly have been consider in developing games all these years and none of us knew it? Please, you sound like someone who has had games made for them since you have been playing games and therefore don't have a clue what it is like not to be catered to.
now i know why stardock is FrogBoys happy place haha
I've always know this was an issue, Baldurs gate 2 you could have Jaheria, Aerie and Viconia (the drow, evil ending with her is sad!). As a female I only found Anomen that big idiot.
In mass effect you can say 5 sentences to and then sleep with an asexual 'thing'... that looks like a female. Yeah, good one. What about sleeping with Wrex?!? Anyway, not played 2 yet.
If that is fixed I still don't know what developers are expected to do to 'appeal to female gamers'. You say they have to ask, ask who? Put some survaey out that says "Wut fml gmrs wnt n gm?" Do they really know what they want in a game that specifically is going to make it awesome for females? I wouldn't be able to answer that question about males (which was my earlier "opposite" point, i.e. gender not content).
I didn't know I wanted Evil Genious before it came out. Now I DID know I wanted operation flashpoint but only since I was thinking of such a game since about 13.
Well asking is a good start. Marketing isn't just about making stuff up and seeing what sticks. There are actually methods available to study and inquire about your target market. I never said women don't like the same games men did. What I have been saying is we aren't catered to, for the most part, so that if we like a game, it's just by chance. You don't make a character like Bayonetta has and tell me she was created for women because she is a female character. Clearly she wasnt' created to appeal to women, although that doesn't mean some women won't like her.
Having women on the team, also helps. Encouranging women into the field is also a plus and these days it is less of an issue but when I was younger, it was just starting to be "okay" for girls to play games. I played games as a girl and pretty much got stuck with the agile weak but faster character that was known as the cliche female character in a lot of games, and there was usually just one of them too. If my sister played with me, i picked some other guy. There is always a chance I would prefer to play a male character anyway, but having the choice is important too.
I personally think RPGs have done a pretty good job in attracting women to the games, but there are issues. I think simply asking, why do the female characters have fewer options, fewer quests, and often less interesting romance choices is an important question that shoudl be addressed. If we have a game where the "character" is only an avatar (as in it doesn't really matter who you pick" why are we being so lazy as to not link the pronouns to acknowledge the character is female and not male. Tropico 3, Space Rangers 2, and Patrician III (pretty sure it was III) all do this... they throw in this hey, maybe we should do female avatars in case someone wants to play them but we won't bother to change the text to reflect that choice and therefore really couldn't give a damn to do it right.
I've been playing game for a couple of decades now. I know when when you go to a industry event, most of them don't even bother to pack their t-shirts in women sizes. Booth babes are not there to sell games to women, gamers or in the industry, and everytime a platform or game does incredibly well the the women population, guys come out of the woodwork to dismiss it and make it a big joke... tryint to protect "their" territory.
Even when I am a playing a "good" game, which is a completely subjective term by the way, I am painfully aware when a developer put in zero, zip, natta attempt to appeal to women gamers.
Just check many of the Wii and DS slides from Nintendo last conferences (E3 for example) and you will see that gamers demographics aren't what you think. In general women have different sensibilities and aren't attracted to many of the hardcore games. That's why they are a minority in platforms like XBox and PS3, but things come out more balanced in Wii and DS.
well, I would argue that this is a difference between casual and hardcore gamers, rather than gender. Women may constitute a larger % of casual gamers, but in the days of PSPs DSs & Wiis I would hardly call them a maligned section of the gaming consumer base.
no, what im arguing is that games are developed to be fun and good, and that one's gender or race (i mean seriously, minorities? lol) has less of a determining factor in the types of games that are enjoyed by people than you seem to think.
plus, you didnt answer my question. exactly how would a game catering to girls differ from what we're seeing today? and i don't mean the boring casual games, im talking about real titles. how would a company tailor say, a racing game towards girls? what would be the differences? show me the united women's front and i'll show you a bunch of gamers whose tastes are as different and diverswe as their male counterparts.
yeah, because i am so thrilled to death by the plethora of dumbed-down titles we've being shovelled recently. the difference is i don't expect developers to tailor their games to my needs because i identify with a particular group.
You really are ignorant of the problem are you? You seriously have no idea that women, minorities and the elderly are under represented as characters in this entertainment medium. You also refuse to believe, as someone who is not a woman and probably not a minority, that game makers pretty much ignore the women that play their games. You can stop using the word girls by the way, and stop trying to dumb down, using your words here, this situation by implying that to cater to women one would have ot make a racing game towards girls instead of making a game keeping women in mind. That you think there is a woman front, only amplifies your complete lack of understanding of the problem. Casual games.... um yeah women play games that are not casual. See you are what i call a majority whose solution to the minority's issue is to say there isn't an issue. We all know how well that works out.
Okay, let's say I make a FPS. How should I make it marketable to female gamers?
wow this thread has derailed.
Selling games by digital download is a growing market, and as it is still in its early stages, the growth rate is impressive, and I am impressed by Impulses rapid development into the market. I feel that the market will later on become flooded with different types of digital distrubutions, but it will become so flooded with so many new companies willing to enter the digital distrubution market, that only the big competitors will stay in buiness (Steam, Impulse etc.)
I have steam, and impulse, and I love impulse more, its more fluid, easier to use, and of course, smooth and problem free for me, where as steam is the complete oppsite to impulse.
Problem is, I dont ever see impulse taking over Steam, becuase steam just has more vairety of games, and more games in general. Maybe impulse will carry on growing and growing, 205% or more, is very impressive indeed. But Impulse needs more games (which it will get), but most importantly something new, and exciting which can attract new consumers to the company, (something different from games).
Just Finshed reading about GDP for My Macroeconomics lecture , just applying some methods.
Or in more technology specific terms, if Impulse wants to compete on the same level as Steam they need a 'killer app' just as 'good' (hype/sales) as Half-Life or Mordern Warfare as well as all the core features steam has.
So, good luck with that then...
Side question: Is Battle.net going to stop at WoW, Starcraft and Diablo?
Call it Portal 2?
I know, not an FPS - I was jokeing. Mostly.
no, you just havent illustrated that there IS a problem.
no, that fact is rather obvious. but as a gamer, i had no problems enjoying say, tomb raider because the hero was a woman. and i have little respect for anyone who has a problem with playing characters that don't fit themselves like a glove.
i feel ignored by game makers. why is me being ignored as a hardcore enthusiast (a minority) any different to being ignored because i identify with any number of other "minority" groups?
yes, games are male-centric because historically more males have played and deveoped games. but id really like you to show how, say, the atari 2600 was dominated by games designed for whites rather than "minorities".
and you keep avoiding the issue! ignore the racing game example. illustrate to me how a game, ANY game, that "keeps women in mind" would be qualitatively different to titles currently available. if its merely what you said above, that there is a lack of diversity in playable characters, then i might agree, but also argue that such issues are pretty minor. if its more than that, then (for the last time) show me how its more than that. give me a definitive portrait of the female gamer and how she is hugely different from the male one, and how games would be different. thats really all im asking.
im not sure about your reading comprehension skills but my entire point is there are no fronts, only gamers, who each have different interests and enjoy different facets of games, and that these differences are a little deeper than simple gender identification.
christ, this is getting tiresome. im not sure if you're deliberately trying to misconstrue what im saying, or whether you're just trying to read too much into everything. if its the latter, at least youre consistent with most of the feminist literature ive read.
of course women play games that aren't casual, the distinction between gamers i drew was between casual and non-casual, not between male and female. and i implied that the differences between hardcore male and female gamers would be smaller than between female (or male) casual and hardcore gamers. ie, that tastes arent necessarily derived from gender.
My Girlfriend plays games like Animal Crossing and such, but her favorites are actually Halo series, run and gun shooters like Serious Sam and the like. It all depends on the individual. There is no set demographic IMO, different people like different games. If you want to feel slighted as a gamer and blame it on the industry being male dominated, that's a personal issue. There is enough variety in games being offered nowadays that anyone who calls themselves a gamer should be able to find something that satisfies their itch.
Not a good example actually, Halo has female characters according to some friends of mine and there are a fair amount of women playing that series. They could use a little more advertising outside of the guys only networks but that series wouldn't be on the top of my list as a prime example of problems.
Err correction either it does or it will. Naturally, more is better. Now the live community... that needs work.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Blog:An_Examination_of_Female_Characters_in_Halo
Back to Steam though, i still prefer Impulse, and Steams 3 hour downtime tonight only solidfies that. Everything is so incestial with them that when something need to be taken down, they pretty much take it all down. I hate that.
Impulse = better download speed
And why you think women are a larger % of casual gamers? Maybe because most games that are done aren't appealing to them? Sex and age are a big deal when creating a game, and if women play far less games than men it's because they like different things. Same with old people. That's why you create specific games for those targets (hello Brain Training games) while if you want to target the young male demography you do Call of Duty.
Maybe that's your mistake right there. Why are you assuming that the FPS will be as attractive to female gamers as to men? to go for the overused stereotype, with films men (are seen to) like the action ones with lots of shooting+violence, while women (are seen to) like the romance ones with relationships and little/no violence. So in game terms I'd be very confident that youll have a higher proportion of men/lower proportion of women with a shooter like half life than you will with something featuring relationships like the sims.
Maybe we could talk about the original topic? (Read: Not female vs male game appeal)
What? oh, right...they're both good!
I just hope that the increase in market share of online distribution means the non-sale prices will finally start to come down a bit - atm I find it ridiculous that it costs more for me to buy a game online (when not on sale)+download it than it usually does to buy the retail version.
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