As per the title.
Why does the word socialism in the US cause frothing at the mouth? Not comming from the US I don't understand this, I can see socialism and capitalism both have positive points as well as negative ones, but it seems crazy to me that when Obama talked of changing the healthcare system there were all these people protesting saying "Government hands off my health" and such.
After watching "Sicko" on TV the other night I think the average US person has little knowledge on socialism. I live in Australia with what would be called a "socialist" healthcare system and I think its great but we are not a socialist country.
So, without getting political, why is the culture of the United States of America so fixated on capitalism?
What-what? You sound almost like an anarcho-syndicalist here, what with your fixation on market relationships and your rejection of central authority...
This is a new one for me... I guess the thread is boring enough I could go ahead and add legal musings to provide a sufficient base for my views on corporations.
First step is massive tort reform. No more punitive damages in civil court. Punishment is for criminal court, this should never have changed to begin with. It's a violation of ones rights to strip them of their property as punishment for a crime that doesn't exist, and if it does it clearly needs punished in the criminal court. You then strip down all this pain and suffering bullshit and have actual damages. No million dollars for lost income and health care costs, then tacking on another five because you're missing a hand and just can't cope with the change. I know, if I lose my legs in a freak accident I'll be terribly unhappy with myself, it's still horseshit even if I change my mind after I can get rich off the stupidity. Less relevant things like a loser pay system are in there as well, but these are the only points pertinent to corporate law.
No more liability gaps. He who makes the decision, hangs for the consequences of it. Those that know of it and go along with it are accessories to whatever crime has been committed. I mean that literally. If you knowingly produce defective products and kill someone with them, you're a murderer, straight up. Your punishment should be determined at your murder trial. The company profits, being the proceeds of a crime, are fair game for civil redress of property losses, but not punishment. A corporate entity can have profits from them, but only individuals commit crimes.
I also want the numerous protections from takeover stripped from public companies. We were a leaner, meaner country before this crap started. When a company got sold off in pieces because it was caught undervalued, it was a good thing. being undervalued means you're pissing away the potential of those assets. If they go more for scrap than they were worth in the business, it's because the company has been mismanaged in a spectacular fashion. The corporate raider was a damn good thing, predators keep the population of their prey healthy by weeding out the weak. These bailouts for companies that are "too big to fail" are even more idiotic and damaging to our economy. GM will never be of any value if they don't break the union contracts and they can't do that without going into default. Raiders would have chopped it up into smaller, smarter companies 20 years ago if it weren't for the legal hoops, now the only answer is bankruptcy with so much more debt than capital. The joys of management fucking up beyond the pale.
Do I still sound like an anarcho-syndicalist?
Way late to the party here, but I just wanted to ask a quicky. Won't a pure hands off capitalist system with time inevitably lead to a monopoly which in turn would lead back to higher prices and lower quality products?
And 2nd part bolded just because I wholeheartedly agree.
Even coercive monopolies are exceedingly rare. Non-coercive monopolies defeat themselves if they attempt to abuse their circumstances, that high profit margin just begs to be cut into, you can make a fortune while taking one down to reasonable levels. The worse the abuse, the higher the market for rapid growth. Most monopolies are established by government intervention, not the other way around.
The railroads had a monopoly because it was the only way to get them built at someone elses expense, same with the telecom industry. Things like Standard Oil got there by crushing the competition and keeping them out with pricing that required a huge investment to match, for low returns. When they were finally broken up, the price of oil products went way up.
Little bit, yea. Simple markets, personal accountability. Throw in some Andalusian folk music and you're at least halfway there...
Has the meaning changed while I wasn't looking, or what? I was under the impression that anarcho-syndicalism contained worker ownership of production as a key component.
Sorta like Commies, minus the top down control.
The meaning hasn't changed as far as I'm concerned; kinda like your affection for ignoring qualifiers and other deliberate expressions of ambiguity.
Exactly. That's what made me wonder about your previous incarnation as an Andalusian peasant in the first place.
I'd find and listen to Andalusian folk music, but it would probably kill me. I'll just assume it's filled with rampant proletariat propaganda espousing decentralized management. Not sure how a corporation exists in such an environment, but whatever.
I'm just hassling you because it seems that your idea of a proper corporation seems to be closer to an anarcho-syndicalist shoe factory than it is to a modern multinational conglomerate.
A view on the US healthcare system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7oMNu6P4Vc
Administration costs are a bit high in the US, 20 cents of every dollar.
Nope, that is communism. Socialism is the control of the means of production by the state, with private enterprise still flourishing on a small scale (think small business, not IBM). You are arguing against reality and have no hope of winning.
Neither is really true. The fact is, that there is no single theory of 'socialism'. The ones in existence vary from 'armies of labour' by camerade Trocki ( now that guy was seriously scary ) to swedish model of heavily taxed free market. The only thing they actually agree on is that they need some sort of state control of the economy to improve the lot of the people. But even in that they don't agree what 'control' and 'improving the lot of the people' should actualy mean.
That may be due to air. How many languages do you speak, read or write?
No, what you wrote is accurate nation-wide. I was reacting to the slightly exaggerated statement that pancreatic cancer is never treatable. Full disclosure: I used to have horses in this race. I spent some time compiling records for an experimental protocol that achieved 30%+ post-five-year survivorship using a modified 5FU protocol.
I didn't say it's never treatable, I said it always metastasizes.
Did you decide to randomly have a sub-internal debate about Pancreatic Cancer within a Political Thread?
This is the Internet. Tangential posting is an essential part of it.
Same difference. At least, where long term survivorship is concerned. The particular study I worked on dealt with locally-advanced (non-resectable but non-metastatic) pancreatic cancer. In about 25-30 percent of the cases, the cancer was successfully downstaged and removed. In the majority of those cases, the cancer didn't recur (ie. never returned, hence, didn't metastasize).
Anyhow...
Pssh! Health care is a very political topic!
Fuckin' A right it is. Arguing over the specifics of pancreatic cancer treatment outcomes is a really good example of why rationing of care is part of all health care systems. Most combat vets understand this because they know what triage is, although triage is certainly not what it used to be on account of the amazing skills of modern trauma surgeons and nurses.
Even in the world outside battlefields, there are limited numbers people with the requisite medical skills, limited equipment, and limited supplies. Private insurance orgs do the same basic things that the British PHS gets slammed for doing in the US press--namely, putting dollar values on abstract peoples' lives and rank-ordering health care needs to help determine who gets what service or meds, and when. Somehow here in the US, it is 'good business' to fully subsidize boner meds but often a real problem to get birth control covered. Is that the free market in action, or is that a reflection of the disproportionate political power of religious conservatives? Looks like the latter to me.
Really? I found the opposite. And the reasoning seemed sound - from a financial perspective. Preventing pregnancy is cheaper to an insurance company than a baby, so they cover the prevention (like my V thingy). At least all the plans I have been on did.
Really? Well, really, I had no footnotes, rotten me. Just sloppy recollections of some footnoted stuff about the hysterically lucrative boner med market and various things about how some insurance plans and specific health care facilities (down to pharmacies) make it hard for some women to go on the 'normal' pill, much less get reliable access to emergency contraception. Just the idea that rules could cause the latter problem drives me batty.
Your "V thingy," while quite admirable in a civilized adult male, is not really comparable to a uterus owner's situation. They suffer a burden of historical oppression and the consequent fact of being less well studied as patients, and I suspect that their gear (being the default gear) is fundamentally tricker than ours. Tying her tubes is riskier and more expensive than tying his.
I did not mean to imply it was, only that the insurance companies I have dealt with were very generous with benefits to any type of contraception. Including tubaligations, which my ex had.
And my thingy was not altruistic. I have 4 children and figured that was enough. Yes, I am a bad person.
Just for the record, I have no empirical data, just anecdotal stories and the logic behind it (and having worked the money side of the health insurance game at a previous employer).
Removal before it metastasizes does not mean it wouldn't metastasize, intervention doesn't factor into the behavior of a disease left untreated. The context for the statement was rebuttal to a theory that cancer screenings catch cancers that will never metastasize, thus inflating the US survival rates.
I see this and think it makes sense that they didn't have a tenth of the surgeons they needed in the past. Top down command and control is never efficient, it's the expected outcome. We're still like that too. You might be thinking, no way our military has the best care in the world, it's technically true. If we had a thousand casualties in a week in Iraq, we'd have been in the exact same situation we were in during the dark ages of medicine back in the civil war. We'd have been chopping legs off, running out of anesthetic, antibiotics, all kinds of horror.
This is why us crazy free marketers get irritated at capitalism being blamed for it. None of that is a product of a free market. The health insurance agencies are heavily regulated. The reason you have poor catastrophic coverage, when you actually need insurance, is because your federal government exempted health insurance companies from the Constitution, allowing states to restrict interstate trade from them. They then stuffed regulation on top of regulation into the insurance market, telling them what they can and can't sell in the respective state. This is why you pay for insurance that covers boner meds in the first place. You could be skipping the idiocy entirely, paying for catastrophic coverage that would actually protect you from the economic problems due to a life altering illness. Instead, selling such insurance is illegal in most states.
Why do we have high administration costs? You pay your insurance company a hundred bucks for a routine checkup and it pays your doctor eighty for the visit. Why do political powers get to decide what kinds of things we have coverage for? Because politicians are mandating that coverage to everyone and forcing people to fund someone elses abortions, boob jobs, whatever. If uncle weren't stepping on your rights, you could get catastrophic coverage anywhere and stop paying the insurance company to pay your bill for you. You could get added coverage for things you think would be worth paying for over time in advance, and only those things.
Because large-scale formal organizations tend to protect their turf (defend the status quo, retain their current membership) regardless of whether they are part of a government, part of a private corporation, or part of a public-private partnership.
Mind you, that's a wordy-t-shirt response that entirely ducks the question of social complexity necessitating increasing investment in 'overhead' to help ensure consensus, if not necessarily efficiency.
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