Ok so I just go the vanilla SoSE a week or so ago, but lurked here enough while it was shipping that I wasn't all that lost when I started. I've only really been playing with the Advent because I had a much more clear vision of how I wanted to play them militarily.... everything built around lums.
I get the Mothership and quick expand, tech to lums and eventually guards with repulse, a little flak to defend the lums, and eventually a halcyon to buff the lums. I also tech beam, health, shield, and hull upgrades. Only playing SP, this had been a devestating fleet so far.
But, I'm ready to take that next step and really learn the higher level stuff that can take me up a notch. More specifically, how to most effectively manage econ, culture, and overall research in general. So my questions are:
1. Culture seems important to the game in general, and Advent even more so. I've almost entirely ignored it. How and when to I properly introduce this.
2. What research techs should I focus on and when to get the most out of my econ... early, mid, late.. whatever.
3. What are the major techs to focus on and what should I ignore... like I said above, I have more of an idea with the hostility tree, but I'm mostly lost with the entire harmony tree. At this point I tech lava or ice depending on the situation and then go for trade ports and resource focus, but that's about it. Like I said pretty much don't touch culture. Any direction with the Harmony techs would be really helpful.
4. Anything else that you can think of that is important that a fairly SoSE educated newbie like me would probably just not realize to implement?
Also, when I feel comfortable with the three races (more threads like this to come for TEC and Vasari in the future) I'll be getting Entrenchement, but not quite yet.
Culture isn't that important. Its economic benefits (+10% loyalty) far outweigh its tactical potential, so it's best to treat it as an economy booster in most cases.
The key is to be frugal. Try to get away with as little as possible. With that in mind, focus on low-level techs that provide a lot of value for the amount of money you paid. Advent doesn't have very many of those, and I often scuttle my civic labs after researching ice and volcanic colonization techs.
In general, the only "must have" technologies are the ones that unlock new units and abilities, as well as the ice and volcanic colonization techs. As I said, the key is to be frugal, and especially if you're low on crystal (technology costs a lot of crystal) this can mean ignoring the tech trees as much as possible.
Trade ports are great... in the late-game. Early-game they cost way too much to set up and you're better off putting your money into a bigger fleet to carve a bigger empire. Go for trade ports once your empire and fleet is pretty large. Never get resource focus; you actually can get more resources by leaving it as a trade port and spending the credits on the black market. I don't know what the developers were thinking, resource focus is pretty well worthless in its current state.
With the most recent patch, watch out for carrier capital ships.
Listen to Darvin... Pretty much what I was going to say...
At any rate, get technology when you need it, not before. When you start playing as Vasari, make sure to get phase gates as they allow a fleet to move from any spot to another.
However, as for advent, make sure you are acquainted with the Holy Trinity of the Radiance, Progenitor, and Halcyon. These three ships, when used alongside Illums and Guardians (and a few Destras late game) are going to kill all in their path. Check out Sagewon's ability guide if you haven't already to learn exactly what abilities are good and which ones aren't worth it.
Also, the listed DPS or damage per second is only the average. You also have to take into account whether the damage is backloaded (deals damage by the volley as in any projectile or missile) or overtime (deals damage by the second as in beams) and the cooldown if you want to know what a single volley will do. Ie, beam turrets will actually deal about 200 damage per volley, but because of cooldown time, they only have a DPS of 20. This is generally not terribly important, but I have used it to my advantage occasionally when it comes to critical mass (fleets that can focus fire any target into oblivion in ~5 seconds or less).
Thanks for the great info guys! You're both assets to the community.
It seems I wasn't too far off (albiet pure luck) although I definitely tech too much...
I have some follow up questions if you don't mind.
Never get resource focus; you actually can get more resources by leaving it as a trade port and spending the credits on the black market. I don't know what the developers were thinking, resource focus is pretty well worthless in its current state.
Does this also address when you make one focus resources and then also build another for trade?
Also, if I'm just going to consider culture part of econ, where does it stand in the heirarchy? Build before trade ports?
BTW Volt, I appreciate your input regarding the Advent Trinity. I always go Progen and Halcyon, but I've been having trouble trying to figure out what my third should be. Cleansing Brilliance goes great with Malice but it takes so long to get that lvl 6 ability. It seems like the Rapture adds abilities that can be synergised very well with radiance and progen, but I just can't see going without halcyon and the energy aura buff to the illums.
No, it is never really worth it. Trade ports are going to be around late game one way or another, so you will have that researched. Resource focus is only going to pay for itself if you have 4 resource asteroids. And since that is rare, its not worth it. Unless you happen to get lucky and find five ice worlds with 4 asteroids each, don't bother.
I put it below trade ports. However, it does help with taxes and resource income the according percent, so it is worth it. Late game, allure of the unity is quite useful because it essentially a +10% increase in tax and asteroid income. Once you can start putting them in multiple places, they are worth it. Trade ports need multiple consecutive places to be effective whereas temples of communions only need to be on every fourth world or so...
I generally go Progen>Radiance>Halcyon>Rapture(if I need another cap). Yeah, CB is a monstrous amount of damage. I figured it out once and you can potentially deal up to around 10k DPS to each target. Now, of course this will never happen unless the enemy intentionally lines up their forces, or you get really really freaking lucky with a flanking shot...
The Radiance is a great counter to any capital. Det AM kills AM, deals damage, and interrupts things such as missile barrage. For this reason, it is worth it. Not only that, but it can increase its health and turn damage into AM.
The Rapture is definitely powerful though. Vertigo is great, as is its SC buffing ability. Either way, the Rapture is a good addition to any Advent fleet, but the more you use Aerias/Halcyons, the more you want a rapture to buff them.
Also, generally the way I play, I create a primary expansion fleet. Once I hit the enemy line, I create a second one led by a newly built Radiance. After finishing colonizing, I add a Halcyon to the Progenitor's fleet and begin loading up the Radiance's fleet with Destras and Illuminators. I then launch an attack with my Progen/Halo fleet only to follow elsewhere with my Radiance. My Radiance will push through enemy territory until it meets up with my P/H fleet. At that point, I start the final push against the enemy.
Trade ports stack for effect. If you build two trade ports in the same gravity well, it produces double the income of what one would produce. As a result, there's never any reason to turn them to resource focus mode.
Depends. Trade works best for long, stringy empires. The longer your trade network, the more money you earn. Culture is most effecient in compact empires. As a result, the driving force of your decision between culture or trade should be the shape of your empire.
The "holy trinity" of the Advent faction is a little outdated. Malice now has a target cap, so the cleansing brilliance combat really isn't that good. These days I use Progenitor, Halcyon, and occasionally Rapture or Radiance as necessary. I usually end up getting doubles of Progen and Halcyon, though, rather than new varieties.
That is true.. There have been requests to have Animosity reworked to be more effective along with generic buffs to all battleships, and I would love to see malice anti-nerfed a bit so that you get a little more bang for your buck because currently, everyone just gets SR and colonize. Malice only if you have leftover slots.
I do see malice motherships every so often. Certainly more than I see people willing to get Rapture or Revelation.
You want to get to the next level with Advent? You've come to the right place. As Obi-wan said in Revenge of the Sith, "Advent are our specialty."
Here's a secret for you. You really don't need to build anything but one unit - disciples. That's it. Don't need labs, don't need research, don't need anything. Just need a good econ, and a row of frig factories to pump as many disciples as you can pump. That will win you the game. Not just against the AI, even online multiplayer. They'll beat anything they can shoot at - even heavy cruisers. Imagine that! I guess the devs put heavy cruisers in the game just so they could laugh at idiots who bothered to spend the time and effort teching up to them.
If you want total overkill, and are just bored spamming disciples, you can drop 3 labs and tech illums. Then build nothing but illums. You won't need to build anything else for the rest of the game. Works online multiplayer just as good as it does single player.
You don't need, and generally don't want, variety in your unit mix, but for special occassions (say your opponent really spammed a lot of lrm, and you were late with your disciple spam), you can mix in a few seekers - also a tier 0 unit - and that will take care of those nasty wasty wittle tier 1 and tier 2 lrm. If you really feel in the mood, you can spam halcyon carriers too, because you'll need something to bomb planets with.
I'd recommend sticking with the basics though. Just learn to mash that "build disciple" button over and over and over again. You'll have a sore finger the first few times you do it right, but don't worry - your body will adjust. Just like working out any other muscle - no pain no gain.
I'll sum it up quickly: The Advent are OP. It was originally believed that their "weak" economy would counteract their super military. However, that is not the case. Their economy is quite normal. Currently, Illuminators are OP because of a bug. After it is fixed, they will still be the best LRF, but won't be super OP. Disciples are too good, take up slightly more than half of the FC of Vasari Skirmishers, deal good damage, and have good health. Seekers have almost the same amount of health as Disciples, and deal slightly less damage. This means that the Advent are particularly good at scout rushing as made famous by RagingAmish.
In the next patch, you can expect the Illum bug to be fixed, and Disciples and Seekers to be nerfed some. For more information, check out the Patch Stat Changes Forum thread in the general forum.
Darvin, I really like your idea about doubling up on the Progen and Halcyon, but I'm probably going to give the Radiance a couple more tries to see if she makes the cut. And that bit about the shape of your empire dictating whether to go trade or culture really made sense. Great stuff!
Volt, I am definitely going to work the two fleet strategy into my gameplay as the flighty AI can be a pain in the ass trying to track them down with only one fleet. Thanks for the quick synopsis too... I'll be looking forward to the patch so that the Advent aren't too rediculous. LOL I was wondering why I had to actually replace ships while playing with the Vasari last night... that certainly didn't happen with the Advent. And Lord I almost freaked out when I got my first warning about one of my Caps losing it's shields. Who knew!
Agent, I'll let you know if I get carpel tunnel... although I probably won't be able to type well.
BTW if I knew how to give karma, you'd all have it by now.
Can you explain Resource Focus more? I'm not familiar with Advent except at the sharp end, but it seems that if you activated the tech it would harm your finances? For it to be a viable tech the resource boost might have to be much higher, perhaps 50% at the first level..?
If you get carpel tunnel, that's means you're playing the advent correctly!
Now, remember that despite what Agent said about spamming disciples and illums, every spam has a counter. In this case, the counter is simple: rush you early so you can't afford to put out the money to be able to spam so much. Still, if you spam nothing but disciples, and do the math, the max fleet slots you can have for Advent is 2000... a disciple takes up four (correct me if im wrong)... so that means you get 500 disciples... think about it... each one causes lets say ten damage per barrage... what can survive 5000 damage (minus mitigation and armor) every five seconds?....
I know, right!
Exactly... you've been playing Advent! Who knew!
I will say one good thing about the Vasari. Don't get me wrong, they suck early game, they suck mid-game, and they are difficult to play. BUT... if you are highly skilled with them, a LATE GAME Vasari can go toe to toe with Advent, and actually beat them. The burden of skill is always on the vasari player, however.
Also, I'd really like to watch some videos of higher level people to get better. I'm a little surprised that this forum doesn't have a dedicated video thread of higher level play. I know that Ke5trel has a stickied thread with replays but ...
Actually, while i'm on the subject, there should really be a "Critique my replay" thread so that noobs like me can have people actually pick something concrete about my play that they think should be improved.
Also, I can't believe that the strategy section isn't broken down into Advent, TEC, and Vasari subsections so that information is more organized and easier to find.
Ok, now that I got that out of my system, it's back to trying not to suck. Thanks again for the info people.
If it doesn't exist but you think it should, then make it yourself. One of the best parts about a forum.
Actually, I've thought about forming a "game review" thread many times. Someone needs to do it, whether it's me or another person.
If it doesn't exist but you think it should, then make it yourself. One of the best parts about a forum.[/quote]
Well at first I thought that I'm too new and really don't have any replays to contribute at this point... but I think i'll do it anyway. Thanks for the motivation!
If we can get a combined game replay thread going, can we have the replays downloadable from the replay section of this site? It might have last been used last summer, but it has to be the best place for replays- even some of the most recent 1.041 replays can no longer be downloaded from where they were uploaded, whereas the ones on this site will remain.
I'd start a 1v1 pack with one of Krath's and two of StarPlayer's replays, but 3 doesn't seem enough and it appears that I've missed some of the best 1v1 replays from v1.041. If there are other suitable candidates can they be uploaded again?
5s replays aren't as useful, there are too many factors other than straightforward faction balance and strategy affecting them. And 1v1s are at least free of drops!
Ok... DesConnor obviously knows more than me about the logistics of setting up a successful replay thread, so I defer to him. If you can distinguish between a critique thread and a pro thread that would be ideal.
One aspect of the logistics is not to set up a replay thread when there is a patch about to appear, as no-one could watch replays from the old version....
I'd prefer that the thread be split between 1v1 and bigger team games, rather than beginner/advanced. There's few 1v1 as it is, they're probably all pro- every error is exposed in 1v1! If the new style is going to be mildly revolutionary, as has been hinted, there might not be new replays for a while as the top players adjust, unless we organise a specific replay thread- as we should.
I completely agree with everything! Just be ready to act when the patch is released.... when will that be anyway?
... more to come if you follow through.
No word currently. With the previous patch, the first hints from the developers that a patch was in the works were 4 weeks before the release. With Diplomacy development in high gear, I doubt we'll see a patch before Summer.
I retract that statement; we just got our first hint of an upcoming patch, so 4-5 weeks is a good estimate...
I have a question as an Ex-TEC Player and now an advent player. Do gardas pose a major threat to your bombers or are you still good on your bomber spam? Also is there any good counter against the Missile Barage ability of the annoying Marza?
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
