For christmas I got Dawn of War: The Complete Collection (the word booyah springs to mind)
Ive been cracking on with it since and am now working my way through Dark Crusade and giving up on the campaigns to actually learn to play the factions better themselves. I went looking for Forum help and cant seem to find jack shit. Certainly nothing as useful as the GPGnet forums on Supreme Commander or the forum here on Demigod.
Im just wanting to know if there is anywhere worth going to learn which Faction is OP, UP; which faction owns late game, which faction doesnt. Basic strategies, mistakes to avoid etc.
Just wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction?
The biggest whine going these days seems to be the space marines lacking a strong melee unit. People seem to think assault sm are to weak. I think the balance is pretty good. The consensus seems to be the Eldar are the strongest race atm. Imo the Eldar can be deadly, They are extremely difficult to use effectively. If you can`t micro really well Eldar get slaughtered quickly.
My only complaint right now is with the Orks. Spamming basic Ork melee is to effective. An Ork player with little skill can still be difficult to beat.
I thought the biggest whine was that the eldar were too tough to beat once they got to their final stage and that the Space Marines got their Grey Knights way too early
Screw DoWPro. Get Firestorm over Kronus/Kaurava. New models, new animations, new and glorious textures, and a shitload of new units, plus a complete re-balance based on the tabletop game. Its not Movie Marines though, especially considering that any AP3 weapon such as a Tau Ion Cannon or a IG Leman Russ or Bane Wolf will chew through SM like they weren't wearing armor.
Those whiners need to learn that the Space Marines DO got powerful melee units. The Force Commander is damn powerful. And if that's not enough, then what about the Dreadnought..? There's also Terminators (yeah they require lots of favor) and Space Marines got quite some advantages in their powerful units and low numbers and customizable tactic squad.
....People seem to want a perfect race with no disadvantages....
Yeah I figured that Eldar would turn out that way....in original Dawn of War it was the same story. Every blue moon some guy would post that the Eldar are too weak and somebody would immedietly reply that if their units are made more powerful then the really skilled players would dominate since they can control the Eldar so skillfully.
I agree. The space marines are the most popular race. People complain about them the most. I think the SM and Eldar are balanced very well right now. The tyranid army seems pretty good. They need some commander tweaking. The ravener alpha is OP, Lictor alpha is UP in IMO. I don`t have enough experience with the hive tyrant to say either way. I think the Ork`s need some work. If there`s a noob race in DoW2 its definetly the Orks. The slugga squads need to be toned down. It really is to easy to be competitive with them. T3 Nob squads also need to be looked at. When they get to level 4 they have like 4000hp. Combined with the mek boy commander+"have a taste" ability means they can`t be killed.
As for the SM melee whine, They want a strong T1 unit. T2 dreadnaught is too late apparently. Personally I don`t agree. T1 SM can be difficult to hang in a game. If you hold your own T2 SM is arguably the strongest in the game.
I was still talking about DOW 1 >>
However the question arises how do you start with the eldar? I mean the only time Ive seen them be of ANY use is on a FFA when people dont know what they are doing and they have time to get Warp Spider and Fire Dragons
_Golgoth_ when you have had enough of the campaign make sure you either download Dawn of Skirmish or Dawn of War Pro for either Dark Crusade or Soulstorm.
Dawn of War Pro uses the improved AI of Dawn of Skirmish but rebalances for the elite community, depending what kind of player you are you need either 1 or the other. Bare in mind the improved AI effectively breaks the campaign but Skirmish games with any number of AI are an absolute blast and the single best RTS AI I have ever played against. Oh and playing against AI without this AI mod is completely pointless other than to learn the ropes, the AI makes extremely bad decisions and can't even do certain things like upgrading Listening Posts to Tier 2.
I sit in the DoW 2 was poo camp, anyone who has read threads by me would realise these click fest RTS type games make me cry inside. DoW 1 was on the edge of what I could tolerate mainly because it was based on 40k and playing against the AI was a lot more interesting than in DoW 2.
Oh and PS. It's a great gift!
DoW1 is fun, but I find DoW2 alot more fun.
The only people who dislike DoW2 over DoW1 are people who like base building, completely obsessed with the lore, and larger armies. But DoW2 is way more unique in its gameplay to me.
DoW II is much closer to fluff then DoW I ever was
to be honest i would have prefered a company of heroes sector style
Yes, I am sure that DoW2 is closer to tabletop than DoW ever was.
But DoW is more fun.
wow there is a lot to say about DOW
basically, for vanilla DOW eldar are OP, orc the more " skill needed race", and SM/CHAOS quite similar, more noob friendly but easely beaten by some strong eldar play
for winter assault, Imperial guard is a quit annoying race to play, it's my favorite but you need a lot of practise and skill to achieve something with, other races are definitively too strong and eldar still the best ( and it hurt to say that coz i hate eldar)
dark crusade, well there is a few changes, this one get a lot of patches improving gameplay because since beginning it was NECRON dominating everything with their too awesome resurect ability, since then it was a matter of patch increasing things for othr races and decreasing necron, so last time i played NECRON where still the best race but it was a more balanced game with other races not so far away. i think for very skilled peoples CHAOS / IG / NECRON / ELDAR where the top with little advantage for CHAOS, for more common player, skill betwen average to strong NECRON was definitively the best followed by CHAOS, IG was made really strong this time but need a lot of practise and a near perfect beginning to stand a chance to show his late game power so most people seems to hard rush to achieve victory during the ten first minuts because IG versatile commander and guard low cost made an impressive rush combo. The other improvement is the TAU race, fire warrior can shoot you before ou see them and they have a really nice big tank, more powerful than a fire prism or some nasty gorilla who can melee anything, giving bitch slap of doom all around and able to old and win ground against anything... if you can survive the first 15 minuts ... fire warrior arent good runners ^___^.
my favorite add on because IG became strong, new units introduce a lot of new strats for every races and games against overpowered necron where pure madness, annoying most of the time, but when you sometimes achieve to win you felt like a giant
finally soulstorm, again two new races and new units, aerial this time. Dark eldars are basically quite hard to play an online they are a " spam brainlessly the winning shit, race" motojet were abused and had to be nerfed, T2 flying infantry ( forget the name) had to be nerfed and last time it was the turn of some kind of chaos beast they use who was able to eat anything, baneblade include and had to be nerfed... but like any abuse race you need to know it and play it a lot to find what and how to do
Sisters of battle where since the beginning explained as an " imperial guard with a bolter ", well it's no far from reality, sisters can chew up basic guards but are dead meat for space marines, they can field plenty of bolters but not as good as SM ones, their anti vehicle sux hard and need a lot o play to be mastered and they have funny tanks or walkers but rarely seen online because mot peoples ( and they are not a lot ) playing them go straight for the faith power they use who are pure madnes if well mastered ( witch need time, time and time)
some new stuff, sisters have a new ressource of their own called "faith" whitch they use for their specific powers and dark eldar have one called "souls" witch they use for powers of their own
here again a lot of patches changed the gameplay more or less, last time i played the best race, not said overpowered but something near was CHAOS, followed by ORKS, ELDARS and SM. all races have a top player who can make you think this one is the best, but the one most played during tournament was ( and i think still is) CHAOS. They can tech faster than anyone, their T3 units combo is one of the best you can found, and if pushed hard their T1 / 2 is strong enough to hold ground forever ( or at least since you reached T3 )
i have less appreciated this last opus than dark crusade because it seemed that patch after patch nothing really changed, chaos was still chaos and pwned everyone and most games where mostly an eco battle to reach Tier 3 units and start fighting to win. The new aerial units where not used, exepct the new SM land speeder tornado and maybe the CHAOS bomber. Aircraft where mostly a surprise to use for huge team games than a real threat suitable for competitive gameplay use.
oups, sorry that is a looooong post
Doom that is a pretty long and, well, pretty post
I must say that I dont like Chaos because 1. Ive never liked them they seemed too stupid 2. Seem too similar to SM 3. Their builder looks talks weird and appears to have some sort of pain fetish 0_o wtf?
I must say my favourite army are the Necrons but just because... well I dunno I just always liked the idea of unstoppable metal skeletons firing green lasers of death with a equally nasty melee attack.The Tau annoy me however due to their lack of ANY defence (mines or turret) and pathetic excuse for tier 1 units that cant stand up to any SM until upgraded A LOT.
I dont really want to play Soulstorm because the last 2 factions are ones I always found un-needed and the flying units sound rubbish
Oh and I think the Necrons arent as good as you claim. Late game the Necron Warriors morale breaks 24/7 which makes the health upgrades seem pointless. The Monolith is hailed as amazing but every time Ive used it it seems to have some sort pathing issue and gets stuck swivelling on the spot barely shooting anything
But hey it may just be me
I will repeat my cries for FoK. Seriously, its so epic vanilla Dark Crusade will seem like pure fecal matter. DoWPro may seem great, but when you play FoK and experience its sheer awesome that all changes. Trust me on this. Just watch the epic trailer on YouTube.
I just began during the Xmas holidays playing the DoW campaigns after buying myself the DoW Platinum Edition last fall. Finished the first, finished the Order campaigns in Winter Assault and am mid-way through the Disorder campaigns.
Pure fun!
I confess that I like best the Imperial Guard, those poor unit-per-unit underdogs! The Orks are also turning out to be a LOT more fun than I had ever expected.
I prefer DoW1 to DoW2 myself, although both are good.
For DoW1 the Tau are my favourites (with space marines coming in second and necrons third) - I like being able to mass long ranged units and kill most of the enemy before they can get a shot off. Necrons meanwhile are fun as a complete change of style, and a very powerful commander.
My least favourite are the imperial guard - their core infantry units are really weak, a pain to micromanage, and lose strength quickly, and while I quite like their tanks I find other faction's options like the space marines dreadnoughts much better.
Although dark crusade overall made the game much better for me (I found the original one great fun, was disappointed in Winter Assault, and really liked Dark Crusade) the one thing that really bugs me about it is the unit caps for non-relic units.
Micro your stealthed rangers for morale shattering bursts followed up by guardian melee.
The ability to teleport immediatly to nearest structure negates any percieved morale problems...by the time they've marched back to the fray they are re-enforced and happy little robots again.
Dude...the monolith...no cron player should lose once that bad boy is on the board...you know it teleports right? If you truly are getting clipping probs...teleporting would be your answer. Combined with the Deciever's fake mono...it's a hands down game winner...properly deployed your opponent will put every lance on the fake one every time.
Honestly I think both DoW1 and DoW2 is inferior to the real Dawn of War which is Tabletop.
Nothing beats displaying your painstakenly painted armies and customizing your army to the player interaction at the gaming group/club.
If it only wasn't so expensive to get into that hobby... ($250-$400 for 2000 pt. army)
You are supposed to use both kroot to act like spotter for your tau fire warrior. Plus you can upgrade your kroot's hp by using kroot's ability cannibalize. There are a reason why they are call carnivores after all. Lastly upgrade your tau technology depending on what route you want to take. Do you want big heavy melee units or lot of long range firepower?
Despite their inferior defense they can be very hard to stop as they are suppose to keep moving and take over territory aka Dark Eldar minus for all torturing and what not. They do have limit "defense" that don't take up unit cap. One example is the drone harbinger keep in mind you can set destination and forget about it and the harbinger *keep it out of enemy fire* will sent a steady supply of firepower at a cost of energy although. Another thing to keep in mind is that those drones will run out fast and often you are better off doing a hit and run in crisis battlesuit.
Last thing to know is that the broadside battlesuit is the closest thing you will get to an almost static turret with better range and self-heal and limit mobile which is a lot more as you can put them on the offensive unlike static defense. I have beat up entire base using nothing but 2 broadside and 2 hammerhead gunship with plenty of units for spotting enemy.
Unit list for Tau and dps stats at relicwiki: http://wiki.reliccommunity.com/Tau
Necron has some units that are moral unbreakable such as flayer, wraith and lastly pariah. Just tied up the enemy's moral breaker with one of them and pretty much gg.
Ok going to practice against the CPU a bit now. Working on my strategies but might end up sticking to Tau, Space Marines and Necrons. Thanks for all the advice guys greatly appreciated
I think your name sound familar have you been on either gaspowered forum or supreme commander online or forged alliance online?
Aside from that I am glad you found our advices useful. You're welcome.
necron are lame
make a lord, start running and teleporting around the map, build free necron warrior squadron , when you are near max pop start walking in ennemy base, loose all your nec warrior, buy a resurect orb, teleport your lord, resurect everything and start walking again...
don't worry about troops shooting at you you have plenty of life and you will resurect again if needed and you just have to teleport your flied one from home to ennemies feet, they can't shot when running, and flyed ones have unbreakable morale ... bullshit
and finally, if thingss goes really really wrong just make a squad of unkillable pariah...
yeah i hate necron
i hate CCHAOS too, make a lord and 3/4 cultist run run run for your life reach T2 make one or 2 or 3 khorne berserker squads and start pushing back, or continue holding ground, reach T3 and start pumping sorcerer/possessed marines/obliterators ... 3 logistic flags, 2 generator and 8 to 10 minuts are all you need
shame for chaos
after that i think you won't mind if i have a lot of fun crusching everything with a baneblade, making peoples fly with my big gun or meleing some obli with my supercharged invicible priest ... or welcoming these possessed / necron warrior with a hail of 6 HWT firing some autocanon rounds
saddest thing is they called me spammer..
It's all about how you play. As someone here said they are no good with Imperial Guard. IG is arguably my favorite faction(Yes I argue with myself), there mobile gun platforms make for a very good turtle strategy. You build everything with only one thing in mine, defense. You then push your entire defense forward slowly. This varies based on map as some maps you will get stomped because of location of Strat points etc.
But like I said it all depends on how you play.
Oh and people who say imperial guards are pussies, it doesnt take much skill to kick ass as a genetically enhanced supersoldier with power armor. Or a ork with super strenght and shootas to boot. I have more respect for IG then any of those other races.
The DoW series was great with the exception of Soulstorm. Which is "metal bawkses" full of rubbish. Relic admits Soulstorm sucked, and the DoW2 campaign disses Soulstorm as well. Regardless.. Enjoy the classic gaming at its best. My two fav factions are the Imperial guard, and chaos (for the fact they been nerfed to hell over the years, and are hard to play). Once you get to late game with both its watch the fireworks, and carnage. The trick is surviving to late game. Ive played all factions. You are spot on about the Eldar needing a korean starcraft player to utilize their full potential. They are virually impossible to play due to the excessive micro. Though i think there are mods that autocast abilitys now for DoW. Though i havnt seen them in a while.
The relic community is dying off. I chalk it up to old timers leaving, and asshats taking their place. Sure theres always one in every community, but the relic community is starting to look like its every one. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like one dont tell me its a freaking sparrow. The sup-com community is the same way. In fact the entire MP community seems to be comprised of nothing but asshats. That take pride in being asshats.
I liked DoW2 though its SP campaign could have been a little better. Too much rinse, and repeat grind in it. DoW2 is closer to tabletop than DoW1 is with the exception of the "immortal" SP seargants. I think once they are dead they should have stayed dead. DoW 2 is a hybrid RTT the only difference is the endless re-enforcements through beacons which shouldnt happen in an RTT. It doesnt in tabletop.
About the chao being bit too easy to spam and push I will agree. However for Necron I will disagree because they can be very slow. The reason is limit of three factories, max three monoliths, vs three different barracks/factories/etc... that you can build more of. A good example of this is the Imperial guards where you have to at least build 3 barracks for full 20/20 population which all can produce units, let don't forget HQ, three factories for tanks again for full population, and lastly baneblade factory. Surely Necron can be quick but if you try to spam more of the same soldier you get a build time penalty to encourage combining different units to get more buck out of your soldier. Immortal for anti-tank role. Flayed one for tieing up range and morale with teleport from monolith. Wraith for harass and killing builder/decap stragetic points. You get the idea now yeah?
Bottom line you can spam warriors all you want but it won't be very effective unless you are facing a noob.
To xGhost4000x:
Yes Imperial is one of the fewest faction to retain the super long range artillery from vanilla DOW even although they was not in it. "I personally wish there was more counter to long range artillery instead of blindly nerfing them." I have done some game where I won the initail skimish with AI patch, which made AI better and tougher, with only 6 squad and one hero. Just to be fair AI didn't even expect me to go straight for them at the beginning hahah.
About the A.I mod "Dawn of Skirmish".
Even at full power and "Hard" difficulty where they are on an even footing with you, if you're skilled you can cripple them in the beginning. Even the Dawn of Skirmish creators say that you shouldn't rush it since it can't handle a skilled player in the beginning. BUT, if you give it 2min to develop it will be hard to win since the A.I do everything simultaneously.
When I attack early, I always win.
If I let it build up, I MAY win.
I normally played 2v2 with an ally A.I on Hard. Quite fun actually. Especially when one of you gets ganged up upon.
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