This thread has been closed by pacov - a new thread has been created here: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/383615
Why create this thread?
Simply stated, the ladder is generally not the best depiction of skill, imho. It GENERALLY tracks who plays the game the most and/or who acts like a jerk by cheating instead of who the most talented players are. That's not to say that everyone high up in the ladder falls into this category. So, if I were to put together my own ladder that indicated skill, I wonder how things would shake out. Obvious hurdles being that many highly skilled individuals don't play each other. So, this requires either the people that don't play together to play more together (my personal choice) or I have to rely from feedback from other players.
Your part if you want to participate
Who do you guys think are the best players in demigod today? I understand that its a team game, but individual players do tend to stand out (and I also know that one great player can't guarantee a win if he has weak teammates, etc). I'm happy to have everyone's feedback. I'm not looking for people to jump in and flame. Just call out who you think is great or who you'd like to see fight. Perhaps we'll get games going. You want to flame and talk crap, your post will probably end up deleted.
You can nominate anyone you want. To keep this from being a list of who likes who, several individuals that are generally considered excellent at the game will moderate the list. If those individuals generally agree, a player can be removed or promoted in the list.
I've decided on 4 categories of players and have provided descriptions of each. Please recommend players along with the category you feel they fit in.
Tier 1 Demigod Players:
Realistically, its my belief that there are 10-30 players in this game that are tier 1 DG players (the best). Those players shine as individuals, generally with a wide variety of characters and do not depend on a specific team or teammate to do well. They can play exceptionally in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, and 5v5. These are players that do not cheat or desync games. These are the people that you want on your team or you want to play against because you know you will get a good game. Any player in this list or any other should currently be an active player.
Tier 2 Demigod Players:
These are players that don't quite currently fit into highest level of players, but are good players all the same. Perhaps they require a specific team or can only do well in specific types of games (1v1, 2v2). The bottom line is that they aren't quite as polished or versatile as the highest level players.
Tier 3 Demigod Players:
A third group (or list) would be everyone else. No need to list individuals...
Demigod Players that Should Be Avoided:
These would be specific individuals that clearly (and I mean clearly) cheat. You don't get on this list unless I (pacov) am VERY convinced that you belong here.
hmm something about only picking my good games?
I think people should pick their good games. Everyone has bad games as well as good games. When you think you've played well and you post a replay, the replay is probably more telling than if somoene just posts some random game where you were eating dinner and it makes you look bad.
Post your replay where you think you're good and see if people agree.
I don't have any issue with popping Maccilia into the tier 2 list. Been playing a few games with him lately. I was actually really impressed with his regulus play in this game http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/1187197/player/28414/. He strikes me as a very capable player that just need a few tweaks here and there to his play style. Any objections to tier 2 for mac? I'd post a replay to his game as reg if I had it. Mac - feel free to post whatever you like... just tell us what's so great about the replay.
Alright, now i have to find it.... *shudders*
"
I was thinking about Sakke and EskaConti as well. Hedgie considered them to be tier 1 (under a different definition). I'd say those 2 fit well in tier 2. They are great as 2 man team (one of the best imo - so long as you keep playing with them), but their strength lies in their 2 man team and adpativeness. As individual players, they are no where near as strong and their strategy isn't anywhere near as effective, imo."
Well, Erksa and Sakke are no longer active players so they don't qualify to be tier 1 by any means of your definition.
As I'm sure you know pacov, I play a very defensive game. I don't full-on engage unless I'm confident I'll pretty easily win and leading up to then I'm constantly kiting and harassing you in an attempt to burn your mana. This might mean I rarely make a mistake over-exposing myself but I'm also not capatilizing on other peoples' mistakes: which is something that in my opinion a tier 1 player just simply DOES (I do not consider myself a tier 1 or overall top 10/20 player. 50 maybe but that's as high as I'd go xP) This is one of the reasons I'm not an awesome UB player because the only build I'm blithely aggressive with it a pure-Ooze when I have a Queen on my team. But that's because I personally love the pure-Ooze build even if it isn't really that awesome (it's one of my favorite to play xP).
I know that also tends to hurt my Sedna late-game because late levels when I DO have a meaningful pounce I still rarely spam it, though I've gotten better at that as well.
I also tend to do crazy 2v1's on the HP flag (esp as Sedna) because I hate to run. I do expect my teammates to port in and, y'know, defend the HP flag. That 2v2 game where my vent was broken and we were playing no-mic, no-text I think you noticed that particular habit. Irek knows that I do this like fuck so he tends to ALWAYS carry a TP when playing with me. Then again, irek is also the opposite of me: he's extremely aggressive and constantly burns mana "inefficiently". Which is one of the reasons we complement eachother well.
Finally... I really don't remember the last 5v5 game that I've played, nor even seen hosted. I know how to play one (I think?). Somewhat similiar though 4v4 Levi is a much different game than 3v3 Cata and a lot of people tend to forget about that (as I'm sure you noticed from our recent Levi games) and do stupid shit that works on Cata but never Levi. So I don't really think that 5v5 is a requirement of knowing how to play 4v4 Levi, 3v3 Cata, 2v2 Cata + Prison and 1v1 Prison are probalby the 4 game modes you should be familiar with: all Conquest of course.
Also, I know that some people (myself included) really have an adversion to replays. Even if I was just proving something worked I would have a really hard time posting a replay of myself playing it just because I'm that way. It doesn't matter if I win or lose or if it was insanely close or if it was an awesome game. I really just don't like replays being posted publically of me, esp to justify my playing skill simply because I don't think that a single replay proves anything. (I do, however, use replays to learn and do watch my own replays however so I find them useful(.
I can beat excellent players when they are just having a shitty day. This isn't an accomplishment. The inverse is true. Irek knows how abesolutely shitty I can play sometimes.
Yah was gonna suggest you go to a tier systemI guess I'll start with a few nominations for Tier 1Orcun - (caveat - MIA?) Orcun's Reg is a classic Snipe-control with perfect map awareness, but what makes his UB Tier 1 is that it survives when it shouldn't, you think he's a goner and he just keeps on coming way past where other strong UB players have to back off or die. He stresses the limitations and maxes the strengths of his DGs better than most any other player, and balances it with great team leadership when the chips are down Posidenii - (MIA) The best teleport amulet Rook in the business. Period. Posidenii is popping up towers all over the map, rescuing his teammates, taking portals, and slamming enemies seemingly all at the same time. It's hard to say if he has a strong endgame because early and mid are so powerful that he hasn't needed one, but this guy's meta is superb. Atma44x - your experiences with Atma44x will be wildly uneven if he is playing a General, but the guy makes TB dance. He and msnt's team were one of two serious challenges to Posidenii's premade, back in the day. Good Rook, too. Tier II -Saiitan - solid Rook, pulls Hail Mary boulders out of nowhereWipuliwo - solid Erebus, knows the gameRagarth - this guy was good eight months ago and just recently got back into it. He is a bit rusty but his strategic grasp is sharp as ever franmella - solid all round playericeninelol - strong ice TBMIA - Team Wagnard/Flurus/Ultime - best Beta team. They were stunlocking when you were a babe in swaddling clothesShadow/RapierX, etc. - they weren't the first, but probably the best minion exploiters out there and a fine coordinated team even without. iPhire/Tiny4Ever, Glist, etc. - a group loosely affilated with Shadow, solid team players The Russians - UndeadStyle, LuckyGrin, The_Bune, etc. - These guys were good Ivorgor - v strong UB, perfect complement to Posidenii's RookKitkun - great SednaAntioch/Lifeslazypuppet/Foreshadowed - Fore was a dumbass, but the team knew how to play. Antioch and Fore would play Sedna/QoT 2v2 and demolish.. Dalzk - solid Reg, TB, UB, Erb
I watched the replay you posted Esuzu. I focused primarily on NinkiCZ's erebus. Solid play. Great map awareness. Clearly a good teammate. Easily deserves to be in tier 2 at least based on this game. I noticed that Wip was dying a bit and appeared to be the primary target in several battles... not a single bit of armor mitigation. Stacked health 100%... no armor. Just found that surprizing.
I meant for the focus to be on versatility rather than just great at 1v1, 2v2, etc. I was thinking how I typically only played 3v3 cata or 2v2 prison at one point. Even though I was pretty solid on those maps in those configurations, I was terrible initially in 2v2 on cata because I simply wasn't used to playing that map with 2's. I play a bunch more games, now I'm good at 2v2 on cata or any configuration on any map. So, a tier 1 player's game shouldn't go to crap because they are doing 2v2 on cata, imo.
Yep cause i know that i can compete with some of the best players on 3v3 cata and with erebus and a few other conditions but put me in a 2v2 or 4v4 and i have no clue what to do
General rule for 3v3 Levi (which btw is why 3v3 Levi sucks ass) is if you are on the solo-man side do not cap the neutral portal. Early level, one person cannot push a tower alone, and if they cap the portal you can get the xp from the creeps standing roughly halfway between the two towers. You get a double xp advantage on them then proceed to rape face and dominate the lane.
Of course, before you go home/shop and once you do start dominating the lane you should cap the portal for warscore.
Never do this in 4v4 Levi, except MAYBE levels 1-3. Many two-man demigod teams can rape a tower's face off even if another demigod is there. Plus, 4v4 Levi warscore is enormous since there are twice the amount of creeps
anyone have any thoughts on Ke5trel's tier 2 recommendations?
Played with Wipuliwo - agree
So many names around here - I guess even you guys don´t know all players who have decent skill because you can´t meet them all on the battlefield.
So I think this "elite" list you are going to make shows just a small portion of what good players are around there. I played alot recently, even premade games (played only pantheon the time before since release but generals vs assasssins is very unbalanced if players of same skill clash together), so I met a few guys mentioned in the list above but also guys not mentioned at all, who are really good players.
Are you sure you can get an overlook of "all" players active out there or are those guys just the best of your favourite friendlist ?
Well that depends on what Tier2 means. If Tier2 is supposed to be players with whom you'd comfortably play a 3v3 or 2v2 match against some of the best players out there then you need to seriously cut a lot of people off that list. If you intend for the play to be of average level when Tier2 players fight other Tier2 players then you need to define what average is.
Based on my observations for the two players on this list that play I can say I think they're not good.
Wipuliwo:
No armor, ok not a good idea but whatever, so many people on that list are so-so, I guess one flaw can be forgiven.
TERRIBLE BEAST BUILD. I watched that same replay you watched Pacov; Let's be honest and say that Acclimation is one of the best abilities in the game, especially when fighting against Oak or Torchbearer in a 3v3. This guy goes with stats. It shows a lack of understanding of the game that I can't understand at all and in any game that goes to level 15 he'd get trumped by a lot of plpayers who do understand it. I don't agree with his choice of favor item either but whatever, so many people have different opinions about that stuff so we'll leave it out of consideration.
Overall I would not like to play with him in a game against good players, they'd capitalize heavy on his flawed skillset and items. If that still qualifies him as Tier2? Yea probably, he's certainly better than Hemb_Boy who was also in that game and if he's already on the Tier2 list I guess the standard is pretty low.
Ragarth:
I played with him before and he plays a no heal sedna. Nilanthi does this as well and it's a terrible idea. He dies a lot because he just doesn't have heal and I have no idea why anyone would bother picking sedna if you're not taking heal, it's just not good. Wether he's a Tier2 player? Depends on the definition again. I'm not taking him to any tournament but then when are those ever going to happen again...
From the feeling of the OP Tier 2 is not a very limiting skill level. It has a lot of ... loopholes. "only good on certain teams or certain modes or certain demigods". It doesn't actually imply a heavy understanding of the game, which is a bit unfortunante. Tier 1 is someone who seems to understand "all" aspects of the game, but then also limits it to 10-20 people. It'd be hard to say that only 10-20 people understand this game.
pacov i'd really appreciate it if u didnt put me on that list and as for that record game it was a pretty bad game bcuz someone doesnt matter who decided we shouldnt group fight them lol and ye call me noob but u'll only see me stacking hp on my ub
ke5trel thks for bringing me up but u made a crucial mistake "Ivorgor - v strong UB, perfect complement to Posidenii's Rook" i am the perfect complement for his rook with my ub and if he comes here and says i'm not i'll uninstall this game lol
kingslet i wouldnt wanna play with u on a good players game either and u forgot to say that i'm also better than u and ur on that list so its a pretty damn low standart how dare u ******* noob to comment on my build prison 13 minutes does that remind u of something?
On the list there is somebody named Hemp_guy I think it should be Hemp_boy probably right?
I played a game yesterday (this replay) with Karebears and Kollecktir who seemed really promising for tier 2 list imo. I've only played 1 game with them though but perhaps other's have played with them that know more?
@GeneralGonzo - one of the premises of this list is that because many of us don't play together, we rely on others providing feedback and recommendations. That said, the list is moderated and approved by a few. Maybe throw up a couple of replays? I'm quite certain there are several great players out there that I've never personally come in contact with.
@Wipuliwo - per your request, you won't be added to the list or evaluated any further.
Tier 2 is meant by me to be a catch all for talented individuals that aren't quite at the level of tier 1. Maybe a better description is needed, but that's what I'm shooting for.
Methinks the rule should be that whenever a name is recommended it should be accompanied by a replay in order to validate it.
Yes. I think we can agree somewhat. I find item choices and skill builds just as important as good gameplay hence why I think amazing Hero is a great great player but I think his item choices aren't optimal which hurts him despite him being on par with many tier I players.
I'm starting to delete some of the flame posts here. Re: Wip - he requested to not be included in the list and I'll honor that. Moving on then
Thank you Pacov, I let myself go. Didn't know you could do that?
How dare I not play with players like Flori88 on my team, a disgrace I say.
Playing with friends too? Consider that a double felony.
I like how everyone pretty much agrees that win/loss rates mean nothing (After say a 50-60% win rate), but then if me and my friend have higher % it is because we are stacked. I don't know about you guys but I can't stand when there is a pug on my team, sorry for not taking the plunge.
All we want is some damn 2 v 2 challengers but this game can't provide that.
I still I want some kind of 2 v 2 from you and an opponent Pacov.
hmm... does anyone out there that knows me think I actually have issues with playing this game with my friends? I'd play in my team exclusively if that was a viable option. But as there are very few teams out there presently, the option, as I'm sure you are generally aware, is to wait a substantial amount of time with your team only to generally end up playing against weaker opponents. At least that was my experience with 3v3 premade games. Perhaps 2v2 games are less painful to get going?
It's not like I have trouble following your point of view. A good premade team mitigates the risk of having to carry a weaker player. You know what you are getting in a premade. Its clearly a safer, smarter choice. But remember, it is demigod.... and sadly, the community frowns upon skilled players playing regularly on the same team UNLESS there is another group of skilled players playing on a the other team... and so on.
Hopefully we'll get a game going before too long. I expect to be on some tonight.
If anyone feels like reading some more long winded fun, here's a thread I made quite some time ago about premades and the overlay... woo http://forums.demigodthegame.com/365479
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