First off, Hi Sins forums. Have been lurking here for a few months now. Up until fairly recently, I played EVE Online almost exclusively.Then I found Sins.Anyway, following a few months of playing, it occurred to me the tactical element of EVE combat and Empire politics fitted perfectly with the Iron engine (at least from what I’ve seen in sins and on the modding forums here)Excited, I searched for EVE-O Sins mods, however, all I could find were suggestions for doing so, or ancient threads that looked like they’d gone nowhere, nothing substantial. (Please correct me if there’s anything major I’ve missed)I’ve headed up several modding projects before (although never in sins) and have a hell of a lot of ideas, concepts and stuff going around in my head.Whilst I can’t pull anything together until at least the end of February, I’d be interested in setting up the peripherals for an EVE mod and getting some good health discussion going in the mean time. I was thinking of a TC, major changes to game mechanics, gameplay, aesthetics, etc, etc. Couple o’ thing I had in mind:
Whilst these three points are not everything I have in mind (would probably exceed a forum character limit if I went over everything) I’d love to see everyone else’s inputs on this. Importing models from Tri-Exporter and getting CCP’s permission to use models isn’t that hard if we have a conceivable plan to start with.Apologies for being the upstart sins nubbin here and suggesting this if it’s out of line/place. I’m a huge Sins/EVE fan, and would love to head up something like this.If anyone’s interested in really getting involved, shout here, or PM me, I’d love to hear from you all about this.
Who would be interested in helping out with a starter mod lead by me, that Ruppetus or someone else can continue later? PM me if you are interested and what of the following you would be willing and able to help with. If enough people are interested, then I will set up a WizeHive workspace with the to-do list, and share a GoogleDoc spreadsheet with the design plan.
Necessary ToDo: (these will be needed for ANY EVE mod for Sins, and can be individually replaced and/or adapted on a case-by-case basis, if done well).- Need a race.entity file for each of the 4 races- Need a ship.entity file for each ship and drone squadron- Need a structure.entity file for each structure- Need ability.entity and buff.entity files for each unit ability- Need to export the textures for each ship, altered to fit the Sins texture rotation and channel layout, and create an appropriate team-color channel (i.e. paint over some appropriate part of the team-color data channel, guided by the diffuse texture, with "team-color" [red])- Need to export the EVE meshes for ships and turrets, paste turrets onto the appropriate locations, set the necessary null points for weapons, engines, abilities, etc., and apply the hull and turret texture sets [textures come in sets of 3].- Need unit- and race-appropriate HUD GUI buttons and icons textures.- Need HUD.brushes files coded for the new GUI components.- Need a file containing all of the string additions to the English.str Sins file.- Need stuff.manifest files complied once everything else is complete.
Optional ToDo: (these are not necessary for an EVE mod, but might be nice and, most importantly, can be worked on more-than-less independently of the gameplay and graphics modifications).- Want Sound.ogg files, both covering music, events, and unit interaction.- Want new weapon and ability particle effects for the new EVE content as effect.particle files.
Tools: (you will need one or more of these to assist on the Add_EVE mod project) - TriExporter -- http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Svenstaro/TriExporter0.4.1.0beta2.zip - TriExporter Update -- http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Xabora/TriExporter_2009.zip - GIMP -- http://www.gimp.org/ - GIMP DDS Plugin -- http://nifelheim.dyndns.org/~cocidius/dds/ - Softimage XSI v6.01 -- http://www.moddb.com/downloads/xsi-mod-tool-601 - MS.NET Framework -- http://www.microsoft.com/NET/ - ForgeTools 3 -- https://www.sinsofasolarempire.com/downloads.aspx - WizeHive Account -- http://www.wizehive.com/ - Google Account -- https://www.google.com/accounts/NewAccount * You may also find http://etherpad.com/ useful, until it is pulled down.
Whiskey144 said:
@LCCX- I did outline a method by which a mining barge/exhumer could be implemented quite well within the game, earlier in this post. Really, it would rely on the AI building "ResourceCapturer" ships.
@LCCX- I did outline a method by which a mining barge/exhumer could be implemented quite well within the game, earlier in this post.
Really, it would rely on the AI building "ResourceCapturer" ships.
Yeah, I see that now. I've just been typing and reading so much I missed on my first pass through. I think it is unlikely the Sins AI would cope well with that, my intuition tells me that would wind up being very CPU intensive (which should be heavily avoided since the graphics will already be pushing even a very nice machine), and it would not add much to the gameplay unless asteroid resource mining was competitive with planetary resource income and starbase income. It is a VERY creative solution though, if it were necessary; you definitely get props for that!
I would also note at this time that, while I would like to see cloaking in this mod, I would be quite happy to leave it as phased out ships (where you can simply not shoot at them). The explanation for this? = You can ALWAYS see who is in local chat.
Well, cloaking only works where you can make something that you can't shoot at. There is the bool modifier "IsIllusionShip" that applies a phased-out effect to the mesh.
Also, there are 2 ways to make my resource capping ships competitive with planets- 1. Simply make planetary resource income pathetically low/make mining barge income very high. Quite simply I was planning that the planets would be about the same as now (but never top 7.5/sec), with barges/exhumers making 20-50/sec. Which really covers my 2nd idea of just making it high enough that it would be noticeable.
It also covers Ruppetus' idea for supply trains. I don't think it would be heavy on the CPU, as Sins itself doesn't use CPU as much as RAM. And since the only thing it is going to do is just sit there and autocast the ability onto roids, it really is rather little compared to the "stress" of responding to all the commands and microing a player will be doing.
Almost forgot this part- the other part of making barges/exhumers a competitive income source with planets is that you basically do the reserve of vanilla Sins- drop credit (or ISK ) prices and hike up resource costs. "Metal" (which will be "Common Ore") is the common ores of Veldspar, Scordite, Plagioclase; in other words the minerals of Tritanium, Pyerite, and Mexallon. "Crystal" ("Rare Ore") will be the more rare ores that one must typically go into 0.0 space to obtain.
Thanks Eomega and Major Stress. Flipping the textures vertically in photoshop did the trick. I had moved the UV map they were assigned to so they lined up right in the mod tool. I then duplicated the UV map after making the adjustment and made the tangent map from it so I am not sure where I went wrong as it looked right in the tool. In any case, flipping the textures is easy enough. I still have to fix the texture lighting, glow, and team colors but even without them, the model does not look out of place at all in sins.
I must emphasize, we will not get this rolling unless we are on a more fluid form of communication.
Aside from models, I've already been working on everything under both your necessary and optional ToDo lists, LCCX. If you wish to be a part of my work on that (which is currently on the stage of Amarr only), then you may contact me me through information in the previous page. Well here it is again for this page.
Contact Information:
Yahoo: Austinhs2002
AIM: Austinhs2002
MSN: Austinhs2002@yahoo.com
Email me at Austinhs2002@yahoo.com if you want other messenger information. Please visit me on irc.stardock.com IRC server on channels #sins and #stardock, as I am there almost daily and frequently just for quick questions regarding modding.
Stardock IRC alias: Tricit (usually)
I consolidate all my contact on pidgin, so you should be able to contact me from any of them.
I am just doing this in alphabetical order. As I've been the only one doing this for the duration between the last attempt at this and up until now, It's progressed slowly. If you want to be a part of a cohesive force to get this moving faster, we must communicate more fluidly.
http://i46.tinypic.com/24awjl5.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/24xzzt5.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/4fvmfd.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/30xakw8.jpg
You will notice I just overwrite existing music files with new ones.
Tonight, I am going to convert the entire mod over to Diplomacy.
Your lighting problem is in your normal map. Make sure you have an alpha channel in your normal map, and that alpha is a copy of the red color channel (as per sins developer guide). Without an alpha you get wierd lighting effects, and/or "Black ship syndrome"
For your tangents do as the sins modding guides suggest.
I could never get into EVE, although I always thought the ships looked awesome. In fact, the only reason I even got the 2 week trial was because everything looks so great. I'd see the trailers and think "Wow! EVE looks amazing! If only it were an RTS." When this mod is finished, it is basically going to be everything I wish EVE were.
Anyways. Any problems I've had so far have been resolved. Any minidumps I was experiencing were due to the file not being in the manifests. If there is no cohesive force already, I'm just going to continue spearheading progress into Amarr (without models) until I am contacted.
I am typically unavailable between 5pm-11pm EST.
What is the current status of this mod effort?
well LCCX seems to be working on a persona project, much live I have been for the past year. . . but I will be using his models as well as accepting any help and cohesive effort with just getting the files written. I cannot really give classes on how to write files. I accept any idea bouncing. One thing that will be in the mod as a result of his shared ideas are modules as cyno generators and switching a little bit with my module constructors/trade/refinery ships.
There is no definite progress as I think there are at least 2 seperate mods being worked on. Mine is continual, remnant of the last attempt, and updated to Diplomacy. I have at least 10 abilities and more than that in buffs. I've got the Archon working fully minus the drones/fighters. I will get them working soon. Right now light drones are ready for ANY ship that requires them.
I will be releasing it in stages. Amarr comes first.
Here is where I am at for Amarr.
* 30% of required abilities. Underestimate
* 30% of ships completed. Underestimate
* 90% of Interface completed. Overestimated
* Unknown in models. LCCX will be giving me the ones he makes for his personal mod.
Primarily, I am going to be spearheading a very public project to create and EVE Online mod. I do have things that are already set in stone, though, as they fit into the balance for the mod since its inception over a year ago.
Regarding progress on everything else... it'll be 100% when the first 3 things are also 100%. It just comes along for the ride.
Thanks for the update Purdyaw. Will you be setting up another forum to communicate your progress?
@Major Stress, Purdyaw, Eomega, LCCX, Ruppetus, Evil Jedi and many more........ have you thought of making any youtube video tutorials for modding sins. In particular.....modeling and file manipulation. There are many that would help.....if given a little intial support. I realize that several of you ( Major Stress ) have written long posts about modding Sins however there is no substitute for 'showing' or demonstrating what you've written. If any of you have done this then I appologize for my ignorance.
I have no idea how to make YouTube (or any other) videos, sorry. The best I can do is ridiculously detailed text instructions.
purdyaw and I had an extensive chat today, and I learned some things about modding in Sins, especially about what the AI requires to operate. This has required a significant departure from my initial thoughts about design. I am hopeful that we can get at least 1 complete mod out sooner rather than later. I am hoping to do at least 5 mods, 4 each adding a single empire faction from EVE to Sins, and 1 that replaces all Sins content with EVE content. Because of hard-coded limits on meshes and textures, I do not think it is possible to add all 4 EVE factions and keep all 3 Sins factions; if at some point the limits are raised, you could include all 4 races by enabling all 4 race-addition mods.
What would really be of help to at least me is if I could post a list of abilities and have one or more people create all the buff and ability files for it.
Hey everybody-
I wanted to give a Sins update- for v1.19&v1.05 Entrenchment, the hardcode limits have been upped- specifically, mesh&texture limits.
Mesh limit- WAS 400. NOW its 800.
Texture limit- WAS 1000. NOW its 2000
EDIT: @LCCX- Oh, you can count on me for that. I am THE BUFF WIZARD!!!
Well, as for making a youtube video......all you need to do is download a screen (desktop ) recorder and record your actions along with dialogue describing your actions in reference to the modeling of ships or the manipulation of files for modding Sins. and then upload that video on youtube. If nothing else you could record a lecture...lol...and post that.
Suggested Topics:
1. Tools needed to model ships in Sins and a crash course on how to use those tools.
2. How to add your models to sins and add buffs and weapon effects and the like.
3 How to add and modify races.
(these are my suggestions and a few off the top of my head ideas. I understand this is WORK so if you're all busy then your busy)
I am not sure i'm understanding your intentions for your mod 'releases'. Do you intend to release an intitial mod that contains one race....and then add to that mod additional races as they are developed ( I.E. v1.0 Amarr, v1.2 Amarr and Minmitar, v1.3 Amarr Minmitar and Gallente, v1.4 Amarr Minmitar Gallente and Caldari )? Surely you do not intend to have 4 separate mods for each race that does not contain each previously developed race? I can certainly live with not having the original races in the mod so long as all the other races are there.
I'm curious as to how much has already been done with reference to Amarr. Purdyaw had released images of his efforts that showed some EVE content but, I did not actually see any Amarr vessels in those images. Have/were those vessels added and simply not shown?
I have to say that i'm very happy to see work taking shape on this. If i could make a suggestion ( this is your mod you will do what you will and that is that ) ........the Babylon 5 mod team has thrilled me to no end with the way they are developing their mod. They work on it.....get something done and put that into a testing Alpha type mod release. That way the fan base can tinker, play with, offer feedback and see what work has been done. Again, this is your mod....I recognize that and these are just my thoughts.
This mod is doable, what ever you can do in eve and can do in sins you cna find a work around that will have a similer desired effect.
Starbase style upgrade should be doable on all ship since all enteties are veiw exactly the same by the game be they be a structure, a frigeat, a cap ship or a SB. They just have different properties given to then in their text files that dictate what they can and cannot do.
Hardestthings to simmulate will be jump gates and the Eve cap ships abilaty to jump around but not being able to use jumpgates.
You can actuly have all T1 and T2 ships int he game that are most valuable. A few patche ago IC realeased the abilaty to make models change on ships when they gained a level or where upgraded. Starbases are a clear case as you can see the weapons on the TEC SB appear only when they are built. Using that system you cna make T2 ships be upgrade from T1 ships in space.
Regarding learning how to modify abilities, the tutorial is in forge tools, and then a giant reference is stickied above.
came from eve today cuz of downtime. BIg fleet battle gona happen in a few hours .
This is great work, truly nice to have somthing to bring some more players into sins. i myself had a little test eve mod but found a few problems. But nevertheless! this is awsome cuz when i have to wait to pay for my subscription i can play this in the mean time .
Also for the tech 2 and 3 stuff i think that the best thing to do is have abilitys or reacherhe for the ships and possibly the same with the rigs which would be so much stuff to put on a ship in sins. Also I think that we shouldnt try to make sins more eve like because eve is more like a first person and sins is one person controlling thousand of ships. The max ships on player in eve can control is 3 per account so... ya far off of 1000.
getting all the ships in game is even more of a pain perhasp putting one of the highest tiers for each categorie of ships exept the battleship one. So 3 battle ships 1 dread one titan and some of the tech 2 battleships.
What about the tech 3 ships !!
Then OMG the cynosuaral field how the hell is that going to work !!! i mean instant jumpping from across a star and possibly galaxy . Perhasp somekind of abillity with 100 to the power of 100 light speed
@akkan117- Each race only has 1 Dread. That's easy to fit.
I already have an idea for a cyno field, and a jump drive abilities. I have made a siege module ability. Right now I'm working on getting the Orca into Sins (my 1st EVE ship in Sins! The Orca is probably my favorite one).
Right now I think it is generally agreed by the other modders that T2 ships will be their T1 counterparts with updated stats and special abilities. I have considered a way to have EVERY (and I mean EVERY) ship in EVE be "buildable" in Sins, but the method is EXTREMELY unfriendly to AI-player use.
As for the T3 Strat Cruisers, well, the main problem with those is that each "module"-subsystem-thing that can be used has its own separate mesh+texture set. Thus, having Strat Cruisers would require a LOT of work. Like- merging meshes, and either unifying the textures or having rather complex multiple-material maps.
@ Archangel1980: Yes, I exactly intend to have 1 separate mod for each race adding it, and only it, to Sins. Since you can enable multiple mods at once, if you want to play/interact with multiple EVE races, you just enable the mod(s) of the races you want to play with for that game. Especially given the new increased hardcoded limits, I see no reason to do otherwise. Is there some reason you think there should be a unified mod (with all 4 races) available? Once the first 4 are done, making a compiled mod should be trivial, and I would be happy to figure out how to do that.
@ EadTase: Unfortunately, I have no idea how to go about extracting the faction and Tech2 colouring alterations out of the .red and .blue files, so the only models and textures will be Tech1 stuff, but they do have turrets!
I would like it if someone could look into the feasibility of the following:
1) Allowing certain ships to make interstellar jumps while simultaneously preventing other ships from being able to make interstellar jumps.2) Implementing wormhole mechanics as an ability. e.g. instantly teleport ship unit group X to ability-using ship or structure unit Y, or something else like that.2b) Allowing players to build wormholes (using a pair of jumpgate graphics).3) Implementing an AOE ability that makes interstellar and/or inter-gravity well travel like 10,000x faster.
Amarr Sins Ship Screenshots:http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i96/lostcommander/Screenshots/SinsArbitrator.jpghttp://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i96/lostcommander/Screenshots/FirstSinsPunisher.jpg
Sins of New Eden - Mod Plan (in progress, subject to change, notices, etc,)https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AuAKzLdiE8rjdGxMSEJhU2xBVko1VDFKU2NJM2piSWc&hl=en
Well, I haven't made a mod however, I have not seen one that has multiple races spread across multiple mods that you have to enable. I have seen and enabled multiple effects mods combined with one race modified mod. I know that if you try to enable to separate race modified mods it usually crashes but, I assume that's because they were never intended to be enabled together. I do not know whether or not it's possible or not I simply have not seen it and it strikes me as a bit......incohesive. Are you doing this to workaround the ship limits or something? I simply haven't seen this type of setup....thats all.
Don't forget you need a GalaxyScenarioDef file made up with incredible variety for both starting players off with assets and populating maps with appropriate enemies, militias, "bases" or population centers. How cool to fly a massive fleet into a "JITA" template loaded with tons of haulers and assorted racial ships AND CONCORD! and rip the hell out of 100 ships.
Creating a "Mod" for each race would rock, then a unified one with massive GSDef support for mad mapping. If you played 7DS and some of the new maps made with my GSDef or made maps using my file, you see the potential for kick ass maps and encounters.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2561/gsdefpred.jpg for image of the 7ds GSdef file -gives lots of options for mapping.
For the way you "fitout" the ships you should do it based first on what the ship is meant to be first and fore most.
A Ferox is a RailBoat, not a MissileBoat.The drake is a Missile boat.A Staber and Thoras are mAC and mBlastersRupture is Arty and Vexor is light blasters with drones.
Thyphoon: Armor Tank, AC and torperdos.Tempest: Sheild Tank, Arty and cruises /or/ Armor tank, AC and torps (probably have it a selectable option when the ship construction is finish)Mealstrom: Sheild Tank and Arty
I can make lots more.
@ SemazRalan: Yeah, there are a ton of setting things that would probably be sweet, but are also probably beyond the scope of my interest in sinking time into this. I would be happy to hand off the project to someone else for further improvement and refinement once I have what I want out of it.
@ EadTaes: Since I have played VERY little of anything not-Amarr, that kind of information may well come in handy in a bit. For now I am sticking with looking at the few top rated loadouts on BattleClinic for unfamiliar ships. I will let you know if that is not working out as well as I hope it will.
@LCCX-
1) I'm working on an interstellar jump drive system for the "capital" ships of EVE. I can look into the other parts of interstellar transit.
2) I'll look into it; however based on my current knowledge it isn't doable.
2b) please define this more clearly; do you mean Jump Bridges or actual Sins-esque WormHoles?
3) Easy. I can post an ability later this week.
Also, right now I am working on importing, rigging, and setting up some of the carriers&supercarriers, as well as the ORE Orca.
LCCX, if you could please PM me a list of all the ships you know of that use a dual-set (tex_d_001+tex_d_002, etc.) texture set, please do so. Also, what file is the Gallentean Nyx supercarrier, if you happen to know of it?
On that note, I cannot open certain models without crashing the TriExporter. Particularly the mining barges/exhumers, but also the Gallente dreadnought, and a few others. So far I've exported most of the drones, fighters, and the new fighter bombers of Dominion 1.1. In the process of importing the Orca into Sins.
Jesus Guys, I go offline for 3 days and the thread goes mainstream? This is great!
@Purdy: Great work with the Amarr already, I know enough Gallente/Matari stuff to balance those out.
@Archangel: Couple of days ago it was just concept and a bit of interest, now we have stuff
In regards to issues exporting barges from Triexporter: the guy who originally made it didn't have the rights to a certain .dll required to export some of the older models. I don't really understand it, but I know no-one's ever managed to export some of them. Yo might, however, be able to use the T2 Variant models instead.
The Internet and browser here is really rubbish, which means I can't really read over the whole thread. I'll be checking up on things every few days, and hopefully will be able to get access to faster internets by tuesday, when I'm hitting a city. In the mean time, I'll try and get in touch with people who already have code and things together.
Rather than PMing me, can people get in touch with me via email when possible? It makes things far easier for me while I'm on the move. You can get to me at RupertCW@gmail.com
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