This is the only correct way to go. I think someone made a thread about it earlier but I can't seem to find it.
Basically instead of having a random event popping up asking you to kill the dragon and then the dragon cave magically appears on the map, the dragon is already there and interacts with it's enviroment. It may harras you early game or go on a rampage in a neighbouring kingdom. Maybe there are troll tribes nearby but they get scared away by the big bad dragon and migrate to a different part of the map. Maybe there's ratpeople clan worshipping some ancient artifact nearby and they have begun to mutate under its dark power. And these troll tribes looking for a new home begin a war against these mutants. Maybe you can aid one of the tribes in war learning them spells to defeat the other side. Maybe through clever diplomacy you are able to steal away the artifact. After one of the tribes win maybe you leave them alone, but after some time you suddenly realise that they have grown immensly strong and united all the trolls under a common banner due to your magical aid and you need to war with what you thought was an insignicant tribe.
Maybe you can assimilate one of the tribes and use their superior strenght in battle, outfitting them with the best of the best using their regenerative ability to beat the other factions. Maybe they begin to revolt if the trolls feel too strong and they think they should have their own kingdom. Maybe another kingdom can try to let other races you enslaved revolt to try and destabilize your kingdom.
Then in endgame maybe you can combine the artifact you stole with clever diplomacy with other artifacts to create a super weapon or maybe to protect from the world flooding, or its somehow crucial for succes in endgame.
Comments?
Basically instead of having a random event popping up asking you to kill the dragon and then the dragon cave magically appears on the map, the dragon is already there and interacts with it's environment.
Agreed. I like the idea of things already in the world forcing the player to make decisions and undertake quests of their own volition. Good suggestion.
bumpityy bump
I like this suggestion provided the Dragon doesn't roam. Powerful Mobs will need to stay in a region of the map or the player will be destroyed before they are capable of putting up a fight.
This could be enhanced if an inn provides rumors of nearby threats/opportunities and the Dragon protects an important end-game resource.
I have to agree with this. If you've ever played Birth of the Federation you know what I mean. With random events on you have to race up the tech tree and build a huge fleet because if the Borg random event happens and borg start assimilating planets they will wipe you out. The AI are never strong enough to counter the borg so they always get wiped out by them. And if you have a force strong enough to take out one or more cubes odds are you can easily take out the AI, but that's cause of bad AI.
I can see the same type of thing happening when you introduce powerful roaming mob. As it forces the player to make a beeline to counter the potentional random events. But at the same time the focus on having the military to counter such an extreme monster ready oftem means the player has the force to steam roll the AI. It also punishes anyone who is not good enough to get the army up fast enough as they get owned by the random mob.
Presumably there are other ways around that though. If I had to guess, I would think that a large army would probably not be tremendously effective against a roaming dragon since 1) that dragon can fly around and hit whatever part of the army it wants to, 2) there are only so many soldiers that can get within weapons range and effectively attempt to hit the dragon without also hitting their fellow soldiers and 3) that dragon would be so intimidating, probably only a few select elite units (whatever your "knights" are) would even be willing to go near the thing.
More useful in this situation would be a good group of heros who combine to take down the dragon, or a powerful combatant channeller.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that a lot of these things only are unbalancing as long as there is only one way to counteract them and one way to have power. Since one of the goals of elemental is to prevent that "blobbing" effect that makes the game only interesting for the 1st third or so, I think there will be enough different ways to manifest strength (armies, heros, combatant channeler, magic focused channeler, ect) that having every player tech to a powerful military will not be a problem.
I don't want this to happen period. My greatest Peeve in the Civ series is that you never have wars, skirmishes, dissagreements and the like in different eras. Research was waaaaay to fast, and that was without the uber random monster event we're talking about allowing here. In civ, you'd go from having barbarians to riflement before you even have a war. I WANT my wars with clubs and pointy sticks, not just skip everything till you have giant magic swords with heavy plate armours!
Currently the research pace of elemental is nice and slow, which means that having powerful random roaming mobs is REALLY bad. But the slow research pace means I get to play with ALL of the different weapons and armours incrementally.
I like the original idea of having the quests as already part of the map though, very nice idea . Just not wandering mobs. Or random quests that force uber military beeline.
The problem you are talking about here isn't having people tech for the most powerful weapons at the end of the tech tree though. The problem is that there is no opportunity cost for doing so. With the Civ tech tree everyone developed along pretty much the same path research wise. You might change up the order a bit, but at the end of the day you all had to develop pretty much the same technology in order to advance very far, so teching to the end of the tree was quite viable. In elemental you can't really research it all in order to advance (more branches, and they don't really intertwine the way Civ's tech tree does), so if you rush the warfare tech tree then you are stunting your civ, magic, questing and diplomacy techs. That is a very real opportunity cost just within the research system itself. Not to mention the problems of a relatively weak economy. Now you've got access to great weapons, but your richer and more populous opponent (who didn't focuse on the military tree but was a bit more balanced) has four times your numbers and the industry to equip all of them with decent, if substantially lower grade, equipment.
Spot on Lwarmonger! I did point out that Elemental has a slow technology procession compared to Civ. I was actually saying I want to keep it that way and that having roaming GIGANTIC random quest mobs would be bad. It would force you down the war path to try and get units that could attack, not die, do some damage, retreat, heal, repeat. Which as you accurately pointed out stunts EVERYTHING else in your empire.
I think the basic idea here is very sound, although it will be tough to implement, I think. I would like to see the following:
1) Keep the current system of random quests being offered to the player.
2) Have some quests offered to the player based on the buildings the player builds (this has been mentioned frequently, ie: I build a tavern, I can now visit that Tavern and get quests or engage in other actions) and the overall gameplay situation (ie: some quests generated by wars, treaties, etc). I think this will be fairly each to implement.
3) Have some special dynamic quests such as the Dragon or whatever.This would be amazingly cool, but possibly hard to implement.
4) Allow the player to call for heroes to go questing, similar to Majesty. These heroes would then independently go questing, use the player's cities and buildings for resupply, etc.
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