Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers? - Jean Luc Picard
well i tried 2 games using window mode and they both mini dump. also whenever i have a large fleet and i let them pick and kill what ever ship they want. when they get done killing the ship they just stop to retarget to a new ship for a few seconds. i dont know if that is supposed to happen or is it supposed to be flawless transitions between kills.
Fine then, I'll just make my own Star Treck Wars mod, with black jack and hookers, infact forget the mod.
All I was really wondering was if the Star treck guys would be a group of playable races like all the others and I could mix and match with the empire, TEC and any other race I might fancy.
I forgot to mention in the readme that you should delete your "ironglad games" folder. Normally you dont have to do this, but if you are having dump issues this might help.
Backup any mods saves, replays, screenshots first. Then just delete the whole folder. Run the game again. it will create a new Ironclad Games folder, and subfolders by itself. All your settings will be reset so you will have to redo those.
The reason why you delete it especially if you havent since patching sins is sometimes old sins stuff gets left behind. Or there may be something screwy in there. I found this out a long time ago when working with Original Sins.
The stop, and pause before retargeting is new to me. I let my ships run free as well, and I havent seen ships do that on my end. Were they in a Fleet? Fleet sometimes will make ships stop attacking to re-group toward the fleet leader. I didnt mess with the AI at all. Its all vanilla sins, and it is hardcoded AFAIK. Which is why i made sure every vanilla sins ship roletype was in each faction.
The OS version is using the exact same ship stats 0.4e will use. In fact they are copied from 0.4e. Obviously there is some entrenchment stuff i couldnt put in, but that dealt with the dynamic movement which OS doesnt support. This is why i asked about the balancing. If it was ok or if some things needed to be messed with.
If you want to mix things up for your own personal use go right ahead. Just dont post here if you run into any problems with it. Just know that sins only supports 1000 textures, and 300 meshes TOTAL. That includes the UI, Maps, etc. That is also one of the main reasons this mod got rebuilt. If you add more factions you risk hitting those hard code limits.
Ok guys question....
If we do port this into Diplomacy, and from what i see it wont be hard to do at all since Diplomacy is built exactly like Entrenchment. Creating the port "should" take about as long as it took me to rebuild the OS version. Ill have to rebuild 0.4e anyway because entrenchment will get patched just before diplomacy is released.
The question is What ship for each faction (including Borg) should fill the "envoy" slot? Ill smack the 1st person that says "prometheus" for the feds. I was thinking more in the lines of the Oberth. The Nova, and Sabre class will be in 0.4e filling the support 0, and support 1 cruiser roles. The Intrepid has been promoted to the heavy cruiser slot, and the Akira is the antistructure ship. So they are not availible. Besides they are combat ships. Understand that this will be an unarmed ship with lots of abilitys. So it is more like an extra civilian ship, but plays a larger role. Think about all of the factions, and what "could" reasonably fill the role. Thoughts?
I think the Norway should be the envoy since that was what it was designed for if i am not mistaken
I would say the Oberth is a great idea for the envoy for the Feds
Maybe this for the Romulans? Or are you thinking smaller ships? And yeah, technically it's a science ship
Dominion, and Borg are obviously going to be non-cannon. I am not going to use a Cardassian design for the Dominion. Though i was going to use the Karemman merchant ship as the dominions civilian ships. It could also be used as a "diplomatic" ship.
Yeah I was looking through the Dominion ships and I saw that one and thought it could work
Whatever you end up using I'm sure it'll be great
Guys what about the Niagara Class (http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Niagara_class) for the diplomatic cruiser. It's not the best looking ship, but the Ship Recognition Manuals (which are vaguely canon) specify it as a diplomatic ship due to it's weak armaments.
Also, if for any reason you want any of the ship recognition manuals for help with any of the races just say, I downloaded most of the eBooks a while ago- they're not amazingly much help, but it may give some ship ideas for the other races.
will the fed base be in the next v.? just wondering
Admiral Rain
hay i was playing another game with and without a fleet, and for some reason they stop when they kill something, then retarget like a second later. also i think that the phaser sound effects need to be louder. i can barly hear them when i have a fleet and they fire the torpedos, that sound effect covers up the phaser sound effect to where you can barly hear it.
Ships stopping for a second or two before attacking a new target is not AFAIK the mod's fault. I've had that happen in standard vanilla sins.
nvm, im blind
harpo
o...
Hmm diplomatic ship.... Well that was a strong roll of the Enterprise The D in particular lol... Hmmm something cannonish.... Oberth I don't think would make sense... It's not very accomidating to diplomats.. nor does it have that subtle show of strength that is sometimes necessary with a diplomatic vessel.... Hey you could use the "Ambassodar" lol how appropriate and make the intrepid the colonizer haha * I wont poke that horse again*
If you want some small and slippery the "raven" might be cool but I am not a 100% sure how diplomatic vessel work since I haven't played the game...Hmm maybe even the New Orleans class or Cheyenne here are some photo's
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/sfvarious1.htm
My vote goes to the Norway for the diplomatic vessel. Any other cameo vessel shown in TNG just looks rediculous. I apologize to anyone here who likes them, but a vast majority of those ships shown at Wolf 359 are creative nightmares. I rank them down with the Yeager class from DS9--you know, that hideous combination of Intrepid and Maquis raider...
While there is no real evidence as to the role of the Norway, we do know that it has a very low profile and most of it's weaponry seems to be mounted forward, which would indicate some type of destroyer status. On the other hand, Starfleet isn't in the business of creating pure battleships, and there just doesn't seem to be enough interior square footage to support long-term scientific or exploratory missions. It doesn't seem to have enough weaponry to fulfill any type of dedicated defensive role, like patroling or escorting. The Nova fills in the short-range and planetary survey aspect of Starfleet, so that really only leaves the Norway with diplomacy. It has some teeth but, I imagine, is ultimately decked out for the brass and foreign dignateries, with numerous spacious conference rooms, gathering areas, and high-end living quarters. With that said, that makes it a bit less useful in combat situations in this particular mod when compared to a ship like the Steamrunner or Miranda.
Oh, and I'm all for TMP-era ship getting bumped out of the mod completely. I like the ships just as much as the next guy, but come on. We've seen a century pass, been through several wars, one of them devestating, and a couple of borg incursions. Does anyone honestly believe that there are still a respectable number of these ships left in service? I seriously doubt there are ANY ships left in mothballs, as I would assume those were all pulled out and retrofitted for the first Domion War. And, assuming there aren't a significant number of these older vessels around, why would they continue to build them when they have much more advanced designs like the Saber, Steamrunner, Norway, Defiant, and whatever they've come up with in the two decades since those debuted? One or two may be needed just to fill in gaps for ship roles, but I don't think any more should be added. At least, not while we have newer, more advanced designs that still aren't incorporated into the mod.
...Luna Class *nudge**nudge**wink**wink* It really is a nice looking ship once you get it into a 3d model.
So, now that I've given my opinion, what does the diplomatic ship do, exactly? I think someone mentioned no weapons, so would that make it similar to trade ships or constuction drones? Would it be possible to add weaponry? Just curious.
You dont need to point out Ex Astis at me i practically live at that site. Its where i get most of my ship reference from.
Ok to clear up the role of the Sins diplomatic ship slot. The ship itself is a cruiser which is a small to mid sized ship. In Sins it is like any other cruiser except that it is unarmed. However it has many abilitys (most have to be researched).
Though most of the feds mentioned are cannon i hate the designs. 3 nacelle ships never go over well with me. Its like the bolt on another nacelle, and call it a new class of ship pet peeve i have. I know some of you guys are cool with it, but not me i like to see thoughfullness and imagination in ship designs. I guess its because i was an aviation structural mechanic at one point in time. Also ships like the Ambassador would be a good choice "if" i had an equal ship to replace it. This is not an "elite" slot. I dont consider the Intrepid equal to the Ambassador. Hell i like the Nova better than the Intrepid. If any ship didnt make sense (other than the NX) it was the Intrepid. The Galaxy while indeed was a diplomatic ship was also a main ship of the line during the Dominion war. It "was" a battleship so to speak before the Sovereign came into the picture which is why it is an elite unit. I think the Oberth will fit into the role because it "is" a small ship. The feds dont need to show force to be diplomatic. If one or two fed diplomats need a ship they dont need a hulking cruise liner to get their job done. We NEVER seen the oberth fire a shot. Yea, yea just cause we dont see weapons dont mean they dont exist yada yada. Im writing this story this time. Not the killer b's, or JJ. Still for a diplomatic ship for the feds what truly do they need? It could be a runabout, and still be accomondating enough for a few personnel. I am just thinking in practical terms here. The Klingons on the other hand "would" probably use a negh var just to intimidate.
If you look here, there's a picture of an Oberth firing its forward phaser at the Battle of Sector 001
But to be honest, I don't think canon should really be worried about in filling the diplomatic ship role, cause that could present a problem
Let's not forget, Starfleet wasn't necessarily the primary body used for diplomacy. Of course, we see them do this in the show because, well, the show is about Starfleet
There was the Federation Diplomatic Corps. If you recall in Insurrection, the Entperprise was assigned to the Goren system to mediate some dispute. The only reason the Enterprise was given this mission was because the Diplomatic Corps was completely tied up in negotiations with the Dominion.
So I'd say you've got a lot of leeway in picking the ship. Or even designing a dedicated FDC ship yourself, if you're into that sort of thing. Maybe Starfleet ships/crews were placed at the disposal of the FDC, maybe not
I have followed this mods progress since september of 08. back when it was just regular old sins, no "dynamic movement". Followed it before there were any structures added or abilities (besides the standard sins stuff). Now it's December of 09. The state of the mod has advanced extremely well from its original state. The fighter attack movment is truly second to none when compared to other mods. The ships simply behave like they should, more or less. The new added weapon effects are stunning! The time and testing that went into this must have been enormous. Now like any good letter of critism I have the compliments out of the way.....
Have you ever taken a look at Future wars: Tactical Simulaor? Of course you guys have. And before you bash me for mentioning another mods name in this forum, continue to read. Their mod sucks for two reasons: one, it doesn't have dynamic movment and two the tec trees stink. What it does have gonig for it is the models. Yea yea I know you guys can model anything.... and put it into the game but there models start to make sense when its 15 or so years after the first dominon war. I mean really, is the constellation gonna still be flying around bombing planets? the Miranda will still be engagiing Gemha'dar (or how ever its spelled) and the Centaur?. Most of there Fed ships look great, the Cardassian/Dominion are pretty good, Klingon are somewhat ok and the Romulans are mostly crap. The same goes for most their structure models as well. The rest of the structures look pretty damn good in the game.
Anyway what I suggest, like you really need anymore suggestion or particulary care what I have to contribute, is two join forces with these guys and calobrate. Why not, they need your movement and you NEED newer models or at least some augments. Like I said before, who cares what I think or say, I've converted your latest OS sins into the latest diplomacy and combined their shps with yours, makes a neat game. Oh boy am I just full of myself! Look at me! I can copy and paste other peoples work together and make something reasonable out of it, arent I swell. Anyway before I die I hope to realize what this mods FULL potential can be, its certainly better than anything else out there right now. Just another non contribuitng adoring fan..... Love your work!
Personally Stress, I have no clue which one to choose, so I am ok with whatever you have in mind . I do think that it should be an older era ship (kinda like the idea is to show good faith in the fact that you aren't going to try and blow the frak up out of your enemy), so Oberth should be ok.
On the other hand, have you got any ideas which fed ships to use for the two different kinds of trade ships?
Yet, I somewhat disagree with you. Usually diplomatic ships are big and the most technologically advanced ships in a fleet. It shows strength, and power, (which sadly the federation isn't). It should say we have a lot of resources behind us, we got the technology to defend you if necessary, we got the will and power and detication to protect and work with you, if not fight along you if we demmed fit.
On the other hand, the ship should also say "Don't mess with us". Which I believe the olberth class is just too weak to say such a statement.
Also if the dev decide that there will be a limited amount of dipolomatic ship what then? If they don't limit it, I think a diplomatic ship should be a capital ship class, limited amounts, powerful, it could be either the nebula soverign, galaxy or the weakest should be the ambassador class.
Let me stress, however, whatever gets picked I am fine with that.
What about the Kelvin-class? They would be pretty cool for the role - or as a replacement ship for one of the currently used ships...
Everyone is talking about the Federation envoy so I think I'll throw in my 2 cents for the other races....
Romulans... might have to go non-cannon on this one, but perhaps it should have an enhanced reactor to allow it to stay cloaked for slightly longer than any other ship as one of its abilities... the Rommies always like to sneak around behind their cloaks and spy, might work well for them to have a ship of this type.
Klingons... we all know the Klingons aren't exactly known for being diplomats... perhaps they should have an envoy ship that DOES have limited weapons, heavy shielding and can support the fleet by recharging special abilities or maybe enhance the hull/shields of ships nearby.
Borg... perhaps an assimilator envoy? No weapons but heavy shields and/or hull and the ability to "assimilate" ships and then use them in their own fleets... or perhaps nano-probe repair bots to support larger vessels
Dominion... Some kind of a "founder" vessel maybe? Or perhaps the breen warship? Not sure if the breen are coming into 0.4e with the Dominion or not, but again, Dominion never seemed like the type of group that really wanted to "talk" about much.
Kelvin.... I like the ship, but Wrong universe. Trek 2009 doesnt exist in this mod. Lets keep the JJ-verse out of this. Im gonna stick with the Oberth, because it think it does deserve some purpose in the mod. No more talk about the feds.
We cant use a ship that is already slotted in the mod. We tried that before in an early build, and it was a failure. Too many got confused over what did what. Otherwise we would have nothing but canon ships in the mod. The new ship must be unique, and not and upgrade/downgrade of an existing ship in a slot.
Klingons...This could be an "intimidator", but not an elite. Something in between the d-7, and Vorcha, and not a ship that is already slotted.
Romulans... Same as Klingons. In this case i would accept an SFC3/Armada design. Just because theres not much out there. If someone can show me something better that doesnt look retarded....
Dominion... Karemman ship will be used. Will need a new civilian trade ship though. Again if someone can show me something better....
Future Wars is based on Armada. That is why it sucks, and why i am very reluctant of using ships from Armada, or SFC3. Because the artwork, and designs for those games are atrocious. My goal is to at least keep the artwork for SoA 2 as canon as humanly possible. Which in sins that is very difficult to do. This is why the Miranda, Constitution, and Constellation still engage jem Hadar, and Borg. This mod stands out for a reason. I dont want a bunch of ridiculous "fanboy" designs in the mod. Plain, and simple. Most of the non-canon stuff comes from established games like the FASA ST: Combat Simulator, Klingon Academy, and Star Fleet Command 1, and 2. There is some BC stuff in here as well, but not very much. Being as BC went mostly "fanboy". As in bolting the third nacelle on, and calling it a new ship, or stretching, distorting an existing ship, and calling it a new class of ship. Or sticking with a theme a little too the extreme (the bird beak starbases). Some of the Armada structures may be of use to us, but i want to exhaust all other options first before i use them.
Technically, the Kelvin was canon, because it already existed at the time of the alternate timeline.
Anyway, you're the boss - your call. I like the Oberth - such an awesome, yet underused, ship
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