A demo of me playing Master of Magic.
There’s a lot that game designers can learn from Master of Magic. In this video demo, I walk through a few of the mechanics of the game.
The creature models issue would require a lot of work, but I don't think there will be any other real problems there. I personally don't mind giving up traditional turn based combat at all, although I may be in the minority here. The other planes issues might be a big deal, we really don't know the limits of modding yet. It might be quite easy, it might be nearly impossible. I'm hoping it's not a big deal as I suspect that it would be desired by a lot of mods. Hopefully one of the Devs can enlighten us on that.
There are a few other things that would have to be decided as well. Do you stick with a city just being a single square on the main map and all buildings are within that city or do you go for Elemental style city sprawl? Do you remove all non-magic research or include it? I'd definitely want to include the old MoM Books and Perks to choose at start, how difficult will that be (my hunch is that won't be too bad)? Can Elemental support Magic Spirits / Life Spirits claiming mana nodes outside of city limits? Does Elemental support the building of other races units when you capture their cities?
*Takes a deep breath*. Felt like my heart got squeezed there....lucky me I'm not old as I would have run the risk of dying before Elemental is released!
Don't you think that continious turns is better?
Don't you think that the combat in Heroes V is better then in Heroes III ? Heroes V added initiative which added more depth.
But seeing what Brad has said so far in regards to modding, it seems that it will definetly be possible to create Master of Magic II
..in a game like this? Definitely not.
Brad, right at the end you mention that you've never seen a demo... there actually was one, way back when. It's what made me buy the game in the first place! Merlin vs. Kali, I think there was a turn limit or somesuch. I wonder if it's just vanished since everyone has access to the abandonware version these days?
I'm pretty sure MoM was the very first game I ever played with detailed in-game info on absolutely everything, through their right-click pop up system. The production values really blew me away.
I still have the disk... altough the demo inside was deleted long time ago. I don't remember if there was a turn limit, just that I played that demo a lot.
I'll add my voice to the "planes please" or at least a secondary map (it could be an underground map).
That was really a key feature of MoM that set it apart and made it tactically different from the Civ games.
Makes me sad to hear it won't be there.
I'm gonna copy here what I wrote in the forum of that other game that Raven X mentioned a while ago. Take it as ideas, take it as wishful thinking, take it as daydreaming of a devotee...take it as you wish.
So...here goes:
what I would really like to see would be an open ended game like Master of Magic, with grand maps and possible random generation of them. The tactical battles should be realized in pausable real time like the total war series but that is not a deal breaker for me.
It would be a really successful game if it would happen to have a lot of spells with large diversity (please not another blue fireball, red fireball to get to the 100 mark ). The quest idea could also really work out well with many random quests as well as different heroes that would get different random starter statistics and spells and get XP and level up. Some kind of direction of magic research like the different philosophies of standard fantasy literature would be awesome (Life, death, good, evil etc). Think about multiple research directions like spiritual alignment life/death-light/dark, morality good/evil-law/chaos, elemental alignment fire/water-earth/wind etc. with each direction securing the availability of some spells while excluding others. Oh and please oh please do include random spell research. There in nothing more satisfying than realizing that even on the 3rd time around there is original content that you just now explored. The possibilities are really endless.
I really hope that you Brad (or if you don't the makers of that other game) make a worthy spiritual successor of MOM.
And please do include the klackons once again
i have had MoM since it came out and it is by far the best game i have ever played. Some key points that made it great:
1- The Planes didn't just add another place to go, what made it greater was that it doubled the area you could explore, and the only way you could take that out is if the map E:WoM generates is extremely large.
2- The replayability came mostly from the fact that maps were randomly generated. Without that E:WoM will have almost no replayability whatsoever. (@developers- please keep it)
3- The way they integrated magic into practically everything. from battles to just changing land, the function brought the idea of magic to life. (I have seen this integrated into E:WoM =D)
4- The races and heroes. Not only were there many races to choose or fight with their own unique units, there were many heroes whom you could have lead your armies or send off together to be badarse. For me, getting the right heroes ASAP was how you won, not waiting for some spell of mastery. (unless you were racking up points, you almost never saw the spell of mastery)
After that, it was the little things, like diplomacy, battles and exploration that made MoM great through sun, rain or snow.
Re planes. Planes were in those early games because of the memory limit. We don't have that memory limit. 640k is long gone.
Bigger maps.
When I saw Brad was about to attack that Neutral Gnoll City with only 2 High men units I knew it won't end well....
Starting battles against gnolls with similar tier units on a 1:1 basis is generally a bad idea in my book, unless there are some nasty spells for backup.
The gnolls have a racial +2 attack for their units and with 2 spearmen units of 8 figures each; that +2 attack translate to a lot of atk power.
They're essentially swordmen units but with more figures.
I also think the 2x gnoll spearmen in the video are higher than "green" level in term of experience which gave them +1hp; essentially doubling their life per figure. (regular spearmen units barring racial traits start with 1hp/figure on "green" level)
Experience plays a big role in MoM and can make a difference.
I don't mind losing planar travel, but MoM always left me frazzled by the end game of larger maps because of all the cities. Though to be honest it wasn't the cities as much as all the enemy units pointlessly running around the map in insignificant numbers. Was this a problem with the AI in your opinion, Brad? And can we hope to not be as overwhelmed on the even larger maps of Elemental?
Planes were also there to add strategies : you could appear in the back of your opponent thanks to the planes, and the right spell.
I like the flavor of "In this plane the roads are automatically enchanted, there are special minerals and only here you can find some of the races.". Plus all the plane shifting thing. Just saying.
Well maybe that is true, but you've missed the point imo. More planes = more diversity & strategical options. Example: AoW 2. - SM: It was hella fun to launch a "surprise" joint attack from the underground caves. Oh well....
Ouch, I face palmed when you attacked 2 gnoll spearmen with a highman swordsmen and spearman (the two best starting units in the game against the two weakest starting units in the game )
Yep, Master of Magic still prevails as one of the best games of its kind to this very day. That would be why I still play it for at least 20 hours every 2-3 months. As a matter of fact, I was playing Master of Magic when my bro called me and told me that Elemental was in the works. Unfortunately, though, certain strategies always dominate the game, especially if you are playing on the hardest difficulty level.
If you aren't a game-loader, life tends to dominate (otherwise be prepared to never have any game-long heroes.) A win button strategy, for instance, is to start with full life spellbooks, pick stream of life as your best spell, and then cast it on every city. Then proceed to max out your taxes (stream of life negates unrest), set your mana distribution to straight skill, and then hit the win button. Use alchemy as your souce of free mana. You'll have paladins roaming the country side before your opponents even have halberds.
Most of these glaringly superior player strategies can be "house ruled" though to keep things fresh. The biggest glaring flaw of the game that you can't fix, though, is the AI and its diplomacy (aka, they always declare war on the player no matter how generous you are with them and at completely random moments.) So naturally, when I knew Frogboy was going to be responsible for the AI of a Master of Magic spiritual successor, I was pretty darn stoked.
Oh wow, I still have the original CD for this, as well as the manual and the spell booklet that came with it. My dad bought it for me while we were in an electronics store many many many years ago. I have no idea how many hours I spent playing this game, but it is most definitely one of my most favorite games ever. All those combinations of spell books and abilities and heroes and oh my.
You really felt like a powerful wizard with some of the more overpowered spells. Stream of Life + max taxes? Suppress Magic (very high chance of causing enemy spells to fizzle)? TIME STOP? Not to mention how overpowered paladins were, especially with a ton of buffs like Invulnerability and iron skin + regeneration.
Ah, good times, good times. If the AI hadn't been so bad and diplomacy next to impossible, I'm not sure if there would ever have been a need for a sequel.
So, how long from now until Elemental is done?
... what about now?
I don't think the base game necessarily needs them but underground areas, planes, etc would be very nice. Hopefully you make it possible for modders though. Larger maps are not necessarily the same thing as there were differences in how the planes acted and underground restricts mobility and could have the possibilty of digging tunnels. Also opens up new pathways to attack your opponent or hide your strength. It just adds a lot of interesting possibilities.
Using plane traveling armies to bypass enemy defenses and avoid having to build ships if an ocean was separating you from your enemy was fun... except when the entire army got locked in the other plane because someone cast Planar Seal and you to your dismay discovered you had no disjunction spells researched to remove it...
Also, having your disjunction spells fail to remove Armageddon or Great Wasting was a pain in the arse, what with all the volcanos and corruption popping up all over your territories every couple of turns.
I saw a chance he had to win. he would have to evenly distribute the damage between the units. he attacked with his hurt swordsman when he should have finished them off with the spearmen. then (possibly) sacrificed his swordsman to hurt the last gnoll enough so his spearmen could kill it. this all being irrelevant if he had healing from life magic
Yeah there's a fictional aspect to this as well that is very important. We've seen the underground maps in AOW:SM, which was unbelievably cool, but there are other uses for multiple maps. For a Star Wars mod for example, you might have Hoth, Tatooine, Degoba etc. For a Dragon Age: Origins mod you might have 'The Fade'. There are lot's of things you can do with multiple maps.
It's good we all like the same things...last I heard Steve Barcia was working for a console company, which makes me sad.
Anyone remember a game SimTex was trying to do called MechLords? I think that would have been awesome as well, but the FASA gang hit them with some kind of suit saying things resembled BattleTech too closely, which was pretty funny since they stole so much of their IP from the Japanese. Too bad they didn't have a little more tolerance or foresight because if MechLords had some out, maybe they would have gone back to make MoM2 and SimTex would be around today (probably as part of EA) but anyway...enough what ifs...Elemental should be a fine game in the MoM tradition and I'm glad to see Brad's heart is in the right place
MoM is awesome, I still play it! There are some games, like this one, so fun to play that you don't mind the old graphics xDI think I'll play civ4 just as much, it's cool and modable too. And I hope EWoM will be just as good (so far, it looks like it's gonna be!)
Are bigger maps then better? I love AoW:SM, it wouldn't be as good if the maps will be 3 times as big as now but without Underground and Shadowrealm.
You need so much time to cross and conquer a huge map. In a smaller map with 3 layers is it more compact and has alot more stratetic depth.
At my actuall AoW:SM game, do I have an access to the underground in my back garden and the Gobos are spaming Bombers out of it. Thats real pain in my ass, but also really fun to try to shot them down befor they reach my skeleton archer. (This game now runs with dwiggs 5.oo, so many great mods are availabel )
Planes are completely different from a strategic standpoint. Bigger map is just a bigger map, it doesn't give you any additional ways to attack, and you don't need any special kind of defence against it.
Bigger map doesn't have that "multiple planes" flavour either. When you have several planes, a world really feels like it's a magical one.
P.S.
M a s t e r o f M a g i cVersion 2.3-----------------------Problem Troubleshooting-----------------------Please make sure you have the following memory available:581K CONVENTIONAL MEMORY2.7M EXPANDED MEMORY
LOL Brad Gnoll untis are just awseome melee str. You are lucky u had the stoneskin otherwise they would have totally dominated you. The drawback to gnolls is they have very small "tech" tree, so not a lot of advance untis/buildings Its harder to keep their population happy as a result, and u get less gold cause you cant raise taxes as much. But they are awesome rush race.
Also to note in reference tot he planes, its a fun aspect of the game. It's not unique to MoM. I know of Civ2 Test of Time that has this, also Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic, just to name few. I think some Heroes of Might and Magic games have an underworld as well. These things give u shortcuts and alternative routes of attack. And they are hell of a lot of fun.
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