I'm currently adding and tweaking some figures for the demis we are finding that lack effectiveness/efficiency. I know these types of mods aren't very popular atm but i wouldnt mind working on these thoroughly so i can request it to become an official patch.
I am trying to alter as few things as possible (for the considered underpowered demis) just so that there isnt a noticeably big change but enough to change their incompetence to competent!
However, i am going to need opinions of my proposed changes. I'll be doing one demigod at a time and will provide a list of the changes.I prob wont put the mod up for download until its completely finished but if you request a download link, i willl provide one.
The Item Balance Mod works very well with this one. It addresses the HP stacking issue we currently have and contains other balance decisions to gloves and all other categories.
List of players using the Big Balance Plan mod (please let me know so i put your name here):- Me!- Izuz- MixMagic- Go-Go-Gadget- AIAndy- Supafishy
Below are links to changes for each demigod. Discuss accordingly. *All open in a new window*
-- Put ur suggestions forward in dot-points in their respective threads.
1. Demon Assassin
2. Torch Bearer
3. Unclean Beast
4. Regulus
5. Queen of Thorns
6. Oak
7. Sedna
8. Rook
9. Erebus
10. Oculus *added*
The latest version available now down below...
DEMIGOD BALANCE MOD v1.23 DOWNLOAD HERE!!!
Version 1.23 update below!
-----------------------------------------------------# All Demigods-----------------------------------------------------Base Max health- increased by 100Level up Stats- Max Health - increases by an additional 30 health-----------------------------------------------------# Oculus-----------------------------------------------------Bug Fixes- Electrocution now works as intended- brainstorm now removes debuffs (thx to ptarth and nzac working on it)Blast Off I- adjusted the dmg radius to equal the same as levels II,III and IV King Of The Minotaurs - Minos- added armor bonus of 50/100/150King Of The Minotaurs - Archers- added attack speed bonus of 3%/5%/7%King Of The Minotaurs - Priests- added mana regen bonus of 2/3/4Sacrifice- increased heal percentages to 20%/40%/60% from 20/30/40%- increased heal radius to 15 from 10Ball Lightning IV- decreased mana cost to 720- each level now increases in attack rate from 1.7 to 1.65/1.6/1.55- increased max balls to 6, decreased summon amount to 3Explosive end- decreased dmg to 300 from 400-----------------------------------------------------# Queen of Thorns-----------------------------------------------------Ground Spikes- decreased attack speed buff duration to 8 secsUproot- increased mana costs to 350/450/600/800Violent Siege- increased dmg to 250 dmg.Bramble Shield II- added movement speed buff of 5%Bramble Shield IV- decreased movement speed buff to 15%-----------------------------------------------------# Unclean Beast-----------------------------------------------------Bestial Wrath I,II,III,IV- changed durations to 6/7/8/9 seconds- changed damage bonuses to 30%/40%/50%/60% -----------------------------------------------------# Regulus-----------------------------------------------------Angelic Fury- damage of the splash dmg is reduced to -75/60/35/20% from -30/25/20/15%- increased mana costs to 30/35/40/45 from 25/30/35/40-----------------------------------------------------# Torch Bearer-----------------------------------------------------Deep Freeze I- increased debuff duration to 6 seconds
Please motivate urselves to give feedback, all of it helps this process.
but PLZ ppl, dont wait on me if you wanna test this mod.
HAMMER SLAM CRITS FOR 9000
Glass Cannon:
The following is a section of the code for Hammer slam IV:
DamageAmt = 1200, # This is correct: inner ring damage is DamageAmt + SplashDamage, outer ring is just SplashDamage DamageRadius = 3, AffectRadius = 8, DamageType = 'Spell', SplashDamage = 500, SplashRadius = 8,
as you can see the splash radius is not as big at all as what u guys made it out to be (those aspects hadnt even been changed). The direct dmg deals 1700 which is how it is even outside of the mod.
i sense sarcasm in the "HAMMER SLAM CRITS FOR 9000" quote, but for arguments sake ... its impossible for it to crit i just checked the code just now.
about TB being a glass cannon... Even in his current state (outside my mod) he is unable to do what you percieve TB's capabilities should be.
*added Oculus' proposed changes... check em out and comment*
'course not. He can only do that 2v2 against Generals, esp early game. But that is his playstyle, he just typically can't keep up with the pace without a massive level advantage.
@ The_Regicide
Evasion works against skills too, Im sure. and he might have been healed by a priest as u said.
I never really understood how deep freeze works. I only take 1 point for the interrupt. Could u or anyone please explain to me how it works ??
Big Balance Plan v1.23 available!! Download link at OP
Rank 1 Blast Off was likely given a shitty radius because it insta-kills creeps when used in melee range, which any other DG would have to give up a favor item to replicate and also and because it doesn't make a whole shitload of sense for a level 1 character's burst damage to be miles ahead of everyone else's. This mod breaks rank 1 Blast Off.
QoT+Rook is absolutely ridiculous with this mod. QoT vs. Rook is also ridiculous.
can u give me a detailed explanation as to why they are. Its no use to me if u just say... "QoT+Rook is absolutely ridiculous with this mod. QoT vs. Rook is also ridiculous."
if ur not happy with it, justify it.
Rook's towers will become anchors for QoT's AoE, which does more damage than Ooze with a larger radius as it heals the tower. Granted it's not active 100% of the time like Ooze, but it also doesn't requrie you to sit in melee range.
The modified ability is still not useful enough to justify skipping Ground Spikes or the newly buffed Spike Wave when Rook isn't present. The key to destroying towers is still going to be winning a battle or steamrolling them when they're unattended, and you're not going to win that battle when you're spending points on Uproot instead of an active ability. You'll basically just be using autoattack and Shield, and that's not going to work unless your opponents start the figth OOM.
*edit* I'm not going to continue the conversation if you continue to use "u" and "ur."
neither will I if "u" cant spell... didnt "no" this forum was ultra formal. That *edit* sounds ridiculous in an informal environment. Not wanting to make this a big issue but sounds like you thought i was 'attacking' you when i said what i said.
All i was saying was that i wanted some insight as to why you think its a bad idea so that I can fix it accordingly.
Now to get back on topic, I think what you mentioned is quite a strategic form of playing the 2 characters (brings in synergy in other words). Its something this game has gone without from the very start so now it seems unacceptable to some degree and maybe even OP because its introducing new functions. These reactions are bound to happen regardless of how minor or extreme the changes are. Whereas I think of these changes as something 'new' and 'exciting'.
Theres always a way of countering strategies, everything has a weakness while having their strengths.
Btw, have you tested the mod out as of yet? If you have and you still think that theres extreme issues with it lemme know and ill see what other alterations i can make. Perhaps give me some suggestions? (even though what ive done so far has been based on previous suggestion on QoT dedicated threads).
*edit* Yes, I realize I didn't put a verb in that sentence.
so do you have anything to say about the topic itself after reading what i had to say?
Yes, but I disagree with your premise so there's not much point. There are currently no particularly strong pairings between specific DGs. There are DGs that work together, but because of general strengths, not specific abilities which outright do not function outside of the pairing. It's not as though Surge of Faith only enhance's UB's speed.
I just don't see how Uproot in its proposed form would be useful when rook weren't present. Not compared to just shielding yourself and wailing on the tower anyway, not to mention blowing it up with Ground Spikes+autoattack.
well for one, i nerfed the armor debuff of ground spikes and added an attack speed buff to Qot after using it to synergise well with the armor loss of an opponent.
and for uproot, its now got some versatility. Everyone was complaining that uproot is redundant because groundspikes does the intended job 10x better. Well now, not only can you use uproot to take down opposing towers over time on its own, but you can heal your own towers which ground spikes is UNABLE to do. There is also several reasons why there is the violent siege effect:
- Uproot is completely circumstantial (requires towers) therefore requires a significant purpose. You've mentioned the combination of rook and Qot which is completely ideal for such a skill, but you could argue that it rlly depends on the skill of each of the players (as for any demigod combination anyway).
- It can be used as a tactic, to deter opponents from closely sheltering at their towers (and generals waiting for their monks to heal them during the 'retreat' time).
- To confront tower pushers and give them a run for their money. Also a strategic move.
Does this seem OP. Well maybe to some degree, depending on each persons perspective.
I played a 1v1 Qot game (against a real player). I chose to invest in uproot, while he didnt. Mind you we had very similar builds apart from that skill choice. He still won the game even though i had the ability to regen my towers. This one instance however cant determine whether it is or isnt OP but it can give you some idea.
Im pretty sure that Rook and Qot combinationw ith my mod would be a combination to fear but even so, theres a TB and a Regulus. Both more than capable of putting a tower rook to the test. Also, ive nerfed the first 2 or 3 tower of light max health so i think its a fairly good compramise for this sort of combination.
The larger discussion about the usefulness of Uproot with violent siege (i.e., friendly tower AOE) is in the QoT: Focus Mod thread. HorseStrangler's argument is that without a rook in the game, the QoT's violent siege ability has ~20 towers to affect. However, with a Rook in the game, this number jumps to over 200 (typically, depends on length of course). This is a tenfold increase in the potential usability of Violent Siege.
Are there other abilities like this? Perhaps, but not such a drastic change.
There are also situations in which one demigod is extremely vulnerable to another.
Now, should there be an even more extreme version of this by giving the QoT the tower buff? I'm not sure. HorseStrangler feels very strongly about it.
I didnt base my arguement purely on the combination of rook and Qot (i only mentioned this combination coz horse did). Im trying to make a redundant skill into something more viable. And from ample amounts of suggestions in "How to make QoT better" threads and replies, the most accepted suggestion was what i have done now with Uproot (unless opinions have changed since then).
Im just hoping these opinions arguing against my changes are from those who have somewhat thoroughly tested them. There's no point in me putting these mods up for download if ppl just chuck the changes back at me and say "its no good coz of this this and this" without having tried it first. I cant help but assume this, since no one has said "in my experience with the mod..." or something of the like...
I cant try these mods on my own with AI, and we all know why. Ive been trying to get other to test with me but for some reason ppl are happy with the games balance already and dont bother coz they cbf (which the forums DO NOT reflect that at all).
I wish the community were more like Izuz (someone who actually tries these mods in their own time)...
Uproot has gone from "OMG ... what a shit skill, plz change!" to "ZOMG... wtf you changed it for!"
gkrit shut up. Go play qot for once and see how she really works. If you makes these changes I'm surely not playing her. Again if you really want to make a balanced game, nerf the top tiers instead of giving everyone insane skills. As of now, the top three just have too much of everything(damage, survieability, chase skills, warps/speed, ranged, AOE, awesome stuns/interrupts) while the lower tiers just get left out in the cold because they cant compete against demigods who have more damage more speed more aoe more health and a stun without immunity(ie UB). Giving everyone this kind of power may seem cool but is absolutely imbalanced.
okay... you try telling that to everyone who uses UB, Ereb and Oak. If u have nothing constructive to say dont say it at all. I alrdy did try to nerf Oak and you know what i got from HorseStrangler???... a slap in the face for nerfing his shield (im sry i had to use you a an example horsestrangler but i need to prove a point to lifekatana).
I can see why the devs dont bother with balancing on a frequent basis or bother looking at it at all, coz no one gives it a chance. You can say nerf the OP demigods, but the players who use them wont play ur mod. You can buff the UP demigod and players are more likely to player ur mod seeing as though ur trying to make it fair for those lower tier demigods. So this is what i tried to do but NO ONE is ever happy. Im sry i cant satisfy everyone.
You say you're not gonna use qot in my mod coz i buffed her? WTF? You obviously havent tried my mod... For majority of my changes though i wouldnt label them as "buffs", id label them as "alterations" to better suit different circumstances. You say "go play qot for once" well FYI, i used to play her ALOT but realised she was a lost cause or the "weak link" of the team because other demigods could do wat she 'cant' do and 10x better. If youve read this far lifekatana then ur not as ignorant as you made urself out to be.
oh and btw, those issues you addressed (top tier demigods having everything, dps etc), is wat this whole mod is about Fixing just that to bring all the UP demigods to the standard of the so called OP demigods.
Its everyone vs me, so its easy to tell me to shut up isnt it?!? Internet bullying... love the demigod community...
The Devs are balancing at a frequent basis, what are you talking about?
Yes I understand that as a mod creator you have a hard time selling this mod to Oak lovers or those people who only play UB(You know the guys that always play with you in good players games but simply refuse to play anything but UB, and when they do it suddenly dawns on you how much they really suck) but even minor nerfs(no stun immunity, swap armor values of UB and Rook, increase mana cost of spit ) could drastically change the metagame.
You didnt buff qot, you mutilated her. You nerfed her best skill. You changed uproot to an extremely OP skill against Rook while still keeping it as a useless skill overall. If you had actually played qot you would know she is actually one of the better demigods, easily being able to hold her own against(although in the grand scheme of things not always as usefull in a team) oak, erebus, sedna and Rook. Qot is a mediocre demigod that suffers from rampant AOE in high tier characters and the inevitable UB in the other team. However compared to DG's like reg and TB she is absolutely fine.
Again play me.
id be happy to play you.
I dont see how i mutilated her.... first its ground spikes being OP against towers coz it puts towers in the negative figures in armor. This is why its considered one of her best skills. Im pretty sure tower sieging capabilities is what makes Qot unique. So in other words she should be a good enough counter to a tower rook. Thats why ive made uproot as is.You should test it, i think youve blown it out of proportion.
You say qot is fine as she is... what? one build only?!?! wheres the versatility. What happened to spec'ing into a certain build like TB can (fire, ice, hybrid).
Also i fail to see the devs balancing demigod skills on a frequent basis. What was the last thing they balanced in regards to skills and when (plz date it).
The devs have forgotten about this game. If we don't take initiative, this game won't evolve at all. It's that simple.
what we were trying to tell you and also explicitely told you about your oak nerf is that you nerfed the wrong skill. you still seem to not get it.
also you didnt nerf beasts spit and ooze which i dont understand because most agree that beast is op because of these two skill lines (especially ooze).
Spit not so much, it's only hypereffective, but ooze is flat out wrong, as a skill.
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