No, they don't represent the community as a whole.  Most just want to play a game.  There are occasional griefers of course which you don't have to worry about in single player but by and large it is not a bad community. 

[_]-Greyfox

SpardaSon21, it is actually far far worse than what is portrayed on this thread.  I have another thread that was prematurely shut down that you can see - Assholes of a Solar Empire - and I had so many names to put on that list that never got on that you wouldn't believe.  My email box was overflowing with submissions.  Furthermore, I continue to witness severe assholery online every night - far, far more than with any other game I've ever seen.  You really have no clue how bad it really is, you are just barely getting a whiff on this thread of what's waiting in store for you online.  Yes, these people represent the community as a whole, because they are 90% of the community as a whole.

You know what agent, thats a load of BS. You wanna know what keeps SP players from joining the MP community? YOU, and people like you who come on the forums and cry cry about competitive gaming. ITS COMPETITIVE, that means people are going to trash talk, play favorites, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER ONLINE COMPETITIVE GAME! Do you know every single MP player? Has every single MP player done something you felt was "assholish"? The answer is NO, you couldn't possibly. Your inbox may have been "full of submissions" on that thread, but you know why that is? Its because people lose. Yeah, people LOSE. Thats what happens in games, and some of the time, its not a graceful loss (or win). But here's the kicker, ITS A GAME! I mean what the hell is the purpose of this post? Are you trying to single handedly clean up the MP community with your self righteous BS? Are you trying to police peoples behavior from your keyboard? Are you some kind of saint whose never had a bad attitude about a game you've played? ARE YOU SERIOUS? 

What it seems like to me is you're pissed at the community because you ran into some guys with pompous attitudes (not uncommon ANYWHERE) which put you in a bad mood, and you went on the Forums and started complaining about it because you can't put them in their place because YOU ARENT GODS GIFT TO SINS, you aren't the best and you can't stand it. IF you really, REALLY have such a poor opinion of SINS MP then I have a tip for you. Stop playing. If you truly believe that 90% of the MP community are assholes, then maybe you shouldn't be part of it, instead of coming on the forums and spitting this bile, disillusioning potential additions to a community that THE MAJORITY OF US WANT TO SEE EXPANDED, and trying to conform us to your ridiculous standards of fair play.

How about you let people decide for themselves, and not make sweeping generalizations about everyone online based on a couple of guys who were douche bags to you once. I know all of the guys are your list, and all the guys you've mentioned are a-holes, and have played with them under names they don't recognize as me (actually no one with the exception of RA knows the names I play under) and sometimes they wanna play with people they know. I get that. Does that make me want to go online and call them out on it. NO. Because its their choice. If I want I can go start another game and play with other people who don't mind. But to be honest those times are RARE. Thats what most everyone on this thread has been saying, EVEN CRAIG.

If you want respect in this community, this isn't the way to get it. Take your knocks and be willing to learn. Thats all you have to do. So either get off your high horse and get with the program, or quit. Your choice.

P.S. You weren't around for Howthe?s blacklist, but don't think youre the first one to ever try to compile a thread of names of people you don't like.  Yeah, I said the same thing to him before the DEVS shut that one down (maybe with a little less pointedness). And despite how much I really loathe you right now, if I see you online I still treat you with the respect I show everyone else I play with, noob, smurf or veteran.

So then tell me, whats the point of all this? Why continue to put down a community that you're a part of? If you hate it so much, why not just wash your hands and be done with it? I just can't wrap my head around why you sit here acting like you despise the entire MP experience, yet continue to participate in it. You say that you "don;t need to do much to get at the asshole online players except sit back and watch", yet this is one of several threads you've put on the forums complaining about those asshole players that are continuing to grow in length due to your constant rebuttals to people defending MP. This will be reply 133, how many of the replies here have been yours? How many of these types have posts have you made? Seems like a bit more than "don't need to do much", hell you started compiling a list of names, sorting through pms and emails and such. Thats taking initiative, thats certainly DOING something. So if you "don't need to do much to get at those asshole players", then don't.

I've seen a lot of your posts you discuss strategies and counter strategies, and a lot of people on the forums (myself included) have done nothing but try and be helpful, so you can go in and stomp those guys and perhaps get them to say "Gee, I definitely want Agent on my team next time", and yet we're r ewarded with statements like the one above; insulting the entire community, disrespecting one of the developers and warding off new MP players. Its like throwing a giant pile of crap in the face of anyone whose ever written guides for MP newbies, anyone whose ever given a newbie some advice, and even the DEVS who continue to adjust the game for us so everyone has an equal chance. 

I'd like to see this community grow larger, and if you have a problem with that, then you really ought to find something better to do with your time than convincing people to stay off MP because you think everyone you meet online is an asshole. I know I'd appreciate it if you did. Yes the game has its flaws, but If you want anyone to be around when it finally hits a good balance (and maybe if smurfs get the boot) then I'd advise you to drop the attitude and be more helpful, or quit and let the rest of us who WANT more people online continue to try and open that door to them.

I agree completely with decever.

The entire community is not filled with jerks, just because you are not treated like a 1st class citizen doesnt give you the right to make up things about MP to scare people away.

Im tired of all you whining threads i hope that sunny gets this post closed it is becoming pointless

_|~Uber

What's the point of what?  I've explained all my points quite clearly.  If you had trouble understanding, I guess you can go back and re-read, if you are motivated.

What exactly got your panties in a wad?  Me warning new players about MP?  Me telling them to be careful about it and stay out of the 5v5 pugs?

What's my motivation, you are asking?  To help them.  To warn them so that they don't waste their time with something that is toxic and not worth their time.  I wish someone had warned me.  It is my private service that I am doing for new players interested in online MP.  If you don't like it, well I can't help you much there.  So why don't I let you do your thing, and you let me do mine?

And don't insult me by saying I'm a part of the community.  I am not.

Oh, but I largely have.  I don't need to list to you the ways that I largely have, but trust me, I have.  There are a few like DirtySanchez and others whom I've talked to about it, and they know I have washed my hands of a good bit of it.

But why do you care either way?  I certainly could give 2 shits as to your involvement in online multiplayer, or the so-called "community."  Why do you care about my involvement one way or the other?  I have never written anything attacking you, so why do you write things attacking me?

I don't think you know enough about me and my life and my level of participation to even speculate on it.  Furthermore, I don't know why you are wasting yout time and energy trying to wrap your head around it.  Is my life or what I do so important to you?  I guess I'm flattered, in a way, but trust me, you have better things to do with your time, your energy, and your life.

I'm not going to count them, but my guess is, not that many.  Most were posts from people like SunnyHawk or whatever his name is, which I ignored and didn't respond to.  But why does it matter to you either way?  Is there a quota on the number of replies I am allowed to make, on my own thread no less?  I'm not counting the posts you make on the forums, why are you counting mine?  What's the motivation behind your posts on putting things to a vote?  I guess I could try to make some issue out of that, but to be perfectly honest, I really don't care to.

It isn't your place to give me advice on this, or tell me what to do.  Having said that, I think you largely misinterpreted what I said about not needing to do much to get at those asshole players.  My point was simply, go ahead and tell that other guy on the other thread, and anyone else who has had difficulties on MP, that everything actually is just peachy keen online, people are friendly, they will be in for a good online gaming experience, and that it's really "whiners" and "complainers" like me - Agent - that are the problem.  My point was, I won't need to rebut or attack what you say, because regardless of what they believe, as soon as they DO get online for a multiplayer game, they will be hit full in the face with the reality of it, and reality trumps everything else every time.  That was my point.

Uhhh... I don't know where you are coming from, but I think you have severe misunderstandings of my game and where its at, my motivations for discussing strategies and counter strategies, how my teammates feel about my online play, etc.  Furthermore, you are being quite condescending and presuming in what you think you know about me.

I'll put my game up against all but the top players in Sins, and already have many times.  One of my smurfs has over 200 games, causing one person on these forums to say to me "That's a hell of a smurf!"  While I am normally quite modest in describing my own capabilities, usually saying to anyone who will listen that I "suck" - it isn't true.  My teammates in fact *do* "want me on their team next time."  I played a game with JJ the other day (he didn't know it was me), and he told me and Aquia in the lobby that we all "worked well together."  It was a 5v5 with all "skilled"  I went head to head with other "skilled," as I've done many, many times.  I came out on the winning end and was an asset to my team.  Is that good enough for you?  Would you like me to send you some of my replays, like the one the other day where I fed my entire team to victory, or the other one where I took my Akkan up to the "skilled" teammate north of me to ion bolt the missle barrage he was getting hit with, turning the tide of battle for him?

As to my posts on strategies or counter-strategies, you probably misunderstand those just like you misunderstand everything else.  The truth is, I don't need your help (sorry).  Most of those posts on asking how to counter things, are asking how to counter things with some particular qualification or distinction that I make, such as: how do I counter people doing such-and-such WITHOUT DOING THE SAME THING BACK AT THEM.  Or, how do I counter illum spam or scout/disciple spam WHILE PLAYING VASARI.  Or how do I do such-and-such WITHOUT SCRIPTING MY PLAY like everyone else does.  You see, I can already do what the vast majority of people do, and simply spam back at people what they are spamming at me, or simply refuse to play Vasari and instead play Advent, yadda yadda.  My posts on such things aren't poor newbish posts needing help with basic gameplay.  They are on "finer points" of play.  I'm sorry you misunderstood.

LOL, not sure where you get off saying that, and frankly I don't care.  But suffice to say, the developers are big boys, I can assure you.  They can take care of themselves, and don't need you to come to their rescue.

LOL.  You have your own "online community" to thank for that, my friend.  Not me.  They ward off new MP players the moment those players set foot on ICO.

I'd say that your comments are severely misplaced.  It is the online community which you are defending which throws manure in the faces of MP newbies, and to be quite honest, MP veterans too.  Now, if you don't want to recognize that fact, that's perfectly fine by me.  If you want to blame me for it, that's perfectly fine by me as well.  But like I stated above, reality has a nasty habit of trumping everything else.

If that really is true, then I am sorry to say that you are doing the wrong thing, defending the wrong people and the wrong behaviors, and therefore undermining your own intentions.  Again, all perfectly fine by me.

As I've said, I don't have a problem with anything you do, because quite frankly, I don't care anything about you.  Quite the contrary, I think it's YOU who have the problem with ME, for whatever reason (shrug).  You certainly keep writing on my thread and attacking me, even though I never mentioned you once.

Again,

1) you worry about you and what you do, and let me worry about me and what I do, and

2) I don't need to convince anyone of anything, because like I said, as soon as a newbie sets foot on MP they are convinced shortly after.  Like I said, MP is its own worst enemy.

If *I* want anyone to be around?  I'll say it again, my friend.  Rather than looking to me and posing that question, why don't you pose it to the online community whom you are defending?  You can imagine all you want (for whatever strange reason) that I'm the person who's chasing people away from online MP.  But I've never called someone a newb, I've never been impolite to anyone, I've never booted anyone from a game (unless they themselves were a booter or other undesirable), I've never cursed at anyone in game for having a tiny lag spike, I've never cursed at anyone in game for making a mistake, or being new and not quite knowing what to do, I've never blamed my defeat in a game on someone else.  I've never done any of those things, or a thousand other things.  Look to your own precious "community" for that.

You aren't doing a service to them, I promise you.  And you aren't increasing the number of MP players, because they will leave shortly after experiencing the toxicity there.  If you really want more people MP, then you should do a complete rethink, and change what you are doing.

Someones on the 'time of the month again'

Karma, your reputation has suck further low, I thinks its near enough the level of the repect people have got for Saddan Hussain, and he later got hung.

Serious now, the people who stuck up for your arguments before, are now agiainest you, your scaring new players from the online community away, and NO ONE LIKES THAT!

Ill admit the problem was bad before, but your making it worse. My advice to you? go and play Homeworld 1 or something, at least there might be 6 players still online for you to trash talk.

Grow up Kid.

IF YOU SME-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-LY WHAT THE HAWK............IS COOKING!

Well to me, this thread seems to have some elitism on the part of the clan members, and Agent of Kharma is QQ-ing all over the place.  I'm just wondering how much of each is common.  How often do newbs get booted for no reason, and how often do the clanners kick and deningrate people who aren't part of a clan?

Hey sparda, as far as the clans go, they used to be pretty organized and would all play together against other people or other clans, but these days on MP the clans are somewhat defunct. Those with clan tags still play with them on (some choose not to), and most of the time they'll play in games on separate teams (to make the matches fair). In pick-up games (2 captains choose teams) the two best players are chosen as captains (so theyre not on the same team) and then they choose their team mates. Sometimes the captains have clan tags and will choose their clanmates over other more capable players and sometimes they won't. What I can tell you with a great deal of certainty is that generally, no one looks down on the people who aren't part of a clan. I've never been in a clan, and I know lots of great players even Clan captains would choose over their mates. The thing Agent is complaining about is when a player is booted from a game so a different player the game host knows well (clan or no clan) can join and play with them. Yes that does happen sometimes. But there are always other games, maybe not right at that time, but a little patience and another will pop up or you can host your own and see if people will join. Many game hosts appreciate patience and will let you hang around and play in their game eventhough they don't know you and someone they do know wants in on it. I can guarantee though that you'll have no problem filling a game or finding one between 4pm-12am EST. If you go online with an open mind and are willing to learn (yes it requires a deeper understanding of game mechanics than SP requires), you should have only a few problems. Just be sure and let everyone know your new to online (many wont believe you at first due to the smurf problem), and you'll find some guys that will be accomodating, teach you some new stuff (first step: survival) and answer questions. I find the a LOT of people online jump at the chance at discussing strategies, and if you can't find anyone online at that moment, theres ALWAYS someone on the forums that will help you out.

Its not a bully free environment, but it is definitely not as bad as Agent makes it sound. In fact one of the nice things about this game is you can learn from peple jsut by playing with them, saving the replay and watching it and what they do. I learned most of what I know about MP by doing that, and I still do it when someone beats me. So if you've got an open mind and a little patience, come online and join us.

As a person who has never played this awesome game online I think my hopes kinda went down... It kinda sounds like I will just be kicked and from what I did read on the first page it sounds like I would want to stay away from any brothers in arms

If anybody should learn anything from all this its that you dont need to be afraid your just a simple click away from mp.So just try it already.So what if you lose a few games its just a game.One thing you all need to keep in mind is even tho agent hates mp so much and says so many bad things....he still plays online.That should tell you all about something your missing out on.That is how much better mp is than sp.It truy is.You all have to realize to there is a lurning curve for mp.Just like learning to drive the first time you went 55 or 60 it seemed real fast but shortly after your totally use to it.