So i was thinking i could start a thread, where originally, people will post their ideas and offer suggestion about balancing all these useless items in Demigod. I know it is a bit early, but i want this thread to be the main balancing thread, and to make these balance fixes myself if everyone here doesnt mind. Or somebody else can do it. I dont have a problem.
So this thread here is for everyone to post their ideas for balancing items, throw some suggestions, even thoughts about new items. Although i think we are better off balancing already existing ones.
So come people throw out your ideas and lets us start balancing the game!
I made a beta version, that right now, has only balanced Helm items. I need a lot of feedback, and thus i cant make a full balance mod yet (need more info etc). Anyway the balance changes are:
Scaled Helm - unchanged. it is already a decent starting mana helm.
- Plate Visor - +35% mana per second (600 gold)
- Plate Visor - +50% mana per second, +425 mana (575 gold)
- Plenor Battlecrown - +1575 mana, +70% mana per second (1500 gold)
- Plenor Battlecrown - +1375 mana, +35% mana per second (1500 gold)
- Vlemish Faceguard - +1050 mana, +11 mana per second, +4 mana per second Aura (1750 gold)
- Vlemish Faceguard - +1050 mana, +4 mana per second, +8 mana per second Aura (1750 gold)
- Theurgist's Cap - +10 Health per second, +35% mana per second, +200 minion Health, +3 minion Health per sec. (2000 gold)
5% Chance on being hit to reduce the target's Health per second by 50% and mana per second by 50% for 10 seconds.
- Theurgist's Cap - +10 Health per second, +20 mana per second, +200 minion Health, +3 minion Health per sec. (2000 gold)
15% Chance on being hit to increase Health per second by 70% and mana per second by 70% for 10 seconds.
- Vinling Helmet - +1050 mana, +70% mana per second (price: 3300 gold)
3% chance on being hit to restore 350 mana.
- Vinling Helmet - +750 mana, +70% mana per second (price: 2250 gold)
-10% Cooldown Reduction Aura
- Hungarling's Crown - +700 mana, +18 mana per second, -25% mana cost Aura (price: 5500 gold)
- Hungarling's Crown - +1575 mana, +18 mana per second, -25% mana cost Aura (price: 4250 gold)
Updated to 0.3. The changes are:
- Plate Visor - +50% mana per second, +425 mana
- Plenor Battlecrown - +1375 mana, + 35% mana per second
- Vlemish Faceguard - +4 mana per second, +8 mana per second Aura
- Theurgist's Cap - +15% Chance on being hit to increase Health per second by 70% and mana per second by 70% for 10 seconds.
- Vinling Helmet - +750 mana, -10% Cooldown Reduction Aura, removed the previous effect.
Changed price of Vinling Helmet to 2250 gold.
Changed price of Hungarling's Crown to 4250 gold.
Any feedback is greatly appreciated
Download here http://www.mediafire.com/?zmjizzgyyyj
Or here http://uploading.com/files/f3b1fd6e/Balance%2Bfor%2Bitems.rar/
i agree with all your helmet changes...except the Theurgists Cap.... +20 mana is too much in my eyes....maximum +12 for my balance feeling...
Keep in mind that it gives no mana whatsoever. So it is really a regen item, for both mana and HP.
Also it costs 2000 gold, with that cash you can purchase a Vlemish (1750 gold) and have 1050 mana and 15 mana per sec.
The Cap is definitely not OP......
"balance feeling"lol.
Ok Ephipenemon and Izuz have very good points. Specialisation and diversication of items is seriously needed.
Plate Visor: add vision bonus, add 2k mana, remove regen.
Vlemish: Change to 12 mana aura.
Plenor: Keep the same?
Cap:I like what you did there, and I would suggest removing all straight mana regen and instead buff the proc to insane amounts. This will make it that you will recover mana and some health quickly in battle but it will be less usefull for demigods who aren't constantly hit(like regulus). Maybe add some sort of aura for minions too.
Vinling Helmet: Straight MPS.(maybe add CD aura?)
Hungarlings: Keep the same? (Maybe add CD aura?)
Basically I agree with Izuz that right now all the helms are competing with each other, and Vlemish and Plenor have won this fight making other helms practically useless. Another thing is that the Vlemish (sometimes with plenor) will cure pretty much all mana issues you have making mana conversion or mana regen specialisation an inferior strategy. On top of that is that almost every one needs a Vlemish which means most builds have an item slot less to customize. And vlemish is kinda cheap for what it does too.
With these changes they will be fundamentally different, although they are surely not balanced precisely right.
I've tried to separate helms into different categories and came up with this "balance attempt". I put different auras on different helms to make all of them viable is the right circumstances. I also dropped the prices of some of them just to ensure that every helm has a chance to be bought in a competitive balanced game.
550g : Scaled Helm : +525 Mana, +4 Mps (unchanged)
550g : Plate Visor: +375 Mana, +70% Mps, +5 Vision Radius
1500g: Plenor: +1000 Mana, +35% Mps, -15% Cost Reduction Aura
1750g: Vlemish: +625 Mana, + 12 Mps AURA
1750g: Theurgist: +10 Hps, +20 Mps, +200 Minion Health, +3 Minion Hps + 15% on being hit to increase Hps and Mps by 70% for 10 sec (If it is possible to make this on hit effect as and AURA then it would be fantastic).
2250g: Vinling: + 800 Mana, + 10 Mps, -15% Cooldown Reduction Aura
4000g: Hungarling: +1200 Mana, +18 Mps, -25% Cost Reduction Aura
PS: if it is possible to change the radius of the auras, I think the radius of TB's fireball would be great to make the different type of auras in these helms synergies.
Cheers!
Here is my reasoning behind these changes.
OK first of all:
Seriously? are you kidding? 2000 mana for an item that costs 575 gold?
Also:
This is too much. 375 mana AND +70% regen AND +5 vision? too OP, imo, for an item that cheap. Scaled helm gives 525 mana, and +4Mps, which is ok, but if these 2 are combined at start, it would be a little OP, just think of it that way.
I agree with the +375 mana though
Izuz almost every helm you have listed, has an Aura. We cant have that many Auras, guys, in 4v4 and 5v5 games it will be chaos!
Also: Izuz and Life: We need some mana pool helms too. Its not all about regen.
But i agree that we need 1 helm with a CD Aura. But not more than one. Lets be realistic
I am thinking of adding to Vinling a CD Aura, and removing its original effect. So it would be like this:
- Vinling Helmet - +1050 mana, +70% mana per second (price: 2500 gold)
-15% Cooldown Reduction Aura
Also i agree with this:
What do you guys think?
Maybe 70% regen is bit too much. 50% would be good. But let face it, if any DGs choose both helms at the start (which is never the case), he would lack serious hp. So I am not worried about that. At the current moment, even if you play in Levi, people would choose scaled helm or plate visor at the start. +375 mana and +50% regen is the way to go if you want this helm to be chosen. Maybe the vision is not necessary.
About the auras, now only two helms give auras. Vlemish gives as +4 mps aura which is mediocre compared the TB ice aura (+9 mps if Im not wrong). and The hungarling is too expensive now. But I think we agree on this one:
You also mentioned:
I have proposed above only 1 helm with this type of aura which is vinling. Vinling as it is now is jut a more expensive poorer version of Plenor, and plenor by itself breaks the balance of all helms.
One more thing:
Couldn't agree more. In this case, we can't give vinling and hungarling more than 1000 Mana because they both have excellent regen and auras. This is why I propose that if Plenor is gonna be the helm that give a big increase in mana pool, let's not give it any regen, but instead make the other helms give regens and auras, with however a small/medium increase in mana pool.
550g : Plate Visor: +375 Mana, +50% Mps
1500g: Plenor: +1300 Mana, + 35% Mps,
1750g: Vlemish: +625 Mana, +12 Mps Aura
2250g: Vinling: +600 Mana, +70% Mps, -15% Cooldown Reduction Aura
4000g: Hungarling: +700 Mana, +18 Mps, -25% Cost Reduction Aura
I have highlighted changes in green, and auras in yellow. I removed the aura from Plenor. Now we have 1 helm with +Mps aura (modified Vlemish), 1 helm with cost reduction aura (modified hungarling), and 1 helm with cooldown aura (new aura).
The Plenor as we all seem to agree, is the helm that gives a huge boost to the mana pool. I gave it double the amount of mana that any other helm can give, with just a small increase in regen. While all other helms, give about half mana, but have great regen (both % and +X) and unique auras.
Ok I am seeing a pattern with some good ideas here.
First:
I think we all agree that this item should be left unchanged, right?
2.
Currently it is: - Plate Visor - +70% mana per second, +275 mana (price: 575 gold)
I would like to make it: - Plate Visor - +70% mana per second, +425 mana (price: 575 gold)
Just think that the Scaled Helm gives 525 mana, so 425 for the Plate would be ok.
3.
I think we should leave it as it is, 1575 mana and 70% regen. or nerf the % regen? Either way i would like to keep the 1575 mana, as a pool mana item.
4.
This is a good idea, but we should keep the 1050 mana, or it would be too OP?
Maybe make it: 1750g: Vlemish: +1050 Mana, +8 Mps Aura, +4 Mps. what do you think?
5.
I agree with this except for the price and the Aura. We should leave it at 2000 gold, and without the Aura.
6.
It should give a little more mana, because you are paying 2250 gold after all. I agree with this too. Maybe make it 850 mana?
7.
Clearly this is UP. Nobody will play for it 4000 gold to get only 700 mana. We should keep it at 1575 mana, After all, with this gold you can buy 2 good helms like Vlemish and Vinling.
My suggestions are:
575g : Plate Visor: +425 Mana, +70% Mps
1500g: Plenor: +1575 Mana, + 70% Mps, (unchanged)
1750g: Vlemish: +1050 Mana, +8 Mps Aura, 4 Mps
2000g: Theurgist: +10 Hps, +20 Mps, +200 Minion Health, +3 Minion Hps + 15% on being hit to increase Hps and Mps by 70% for 10 sec
2250g: Vinling: +850 Mana, +70% Mps, -15% Cooldown Reduction Aura
4000g: Hungarling: +1575 Mana, +18 Mps, -25% Cost Reduction Aura
What do you think?
I made a few changes to your suggestion. I think we are going towards the right direction. I just want you to know that all items and categories are related. so we don't want to make anything too OP (as it is the case now with HP stacking) or UP (as it is now with AA).
575g : Plate Visor: +425 Mana, + 40% Mps (70% too OP for a starting helm, in Levi 40% would give about +21 mps, huge)
1500g: Plenor: +1400 Mana, + 35% Mps
1750g: Vlemish: +1000 Mana, +8 Mps Aura, + 4 Mps
2250g: Vinling: +750 Mana, +70% Mps, -15% Cooldown Reduction Aura
4000g: Hungarling: +1275 Mana, +18 Mps, -25% Cost Reduction Aura
Ok all I did here is modified the regen for Plate Visor and Plenor. What you see highlighted in yellow, I slightly nerfed the increase in mana pool and here is why. DGs that REALLY need mana, usually stack at least two mana helms. We don't want a DG walking with 7k+ Mana and Mps/CD/Cost Reduction auras around level 10+, not to mention mana and mana regen flags. That is why I think decreasing the mana in those helms is necessary (I would even consider a slight nerf of 100 mana on the last 4 helms, even 200 for 1 or 2). But we will need to test this first. I hope that more people get to read this.
edit: btw I also spent quite some time trying to balance boots and chest pieces. I will post them here as soon as we have an agreement on the helms. I am really excited about this. If this goes right, it will totally change our game experience.
I agree but not with everything. The 40% Mps for the Plate is ok for maps like Levi, but on Cataract, if you buy Scaled Helm, and Plate Visor as starting items, the Plate will give you only an additional +2 Mps. and thats only if you have Scaled Helm at start. If you get only the Plate, it is about +1 Mps. thats nothing. So i think we can make it 50%.
My suggestions:
575g : Plate Visor: +425 Mana, +50% Mps
1500g: Plenor: +1575 Mana, + 35% Mps,
About the Vlemish, i just like the number 1050, lol, thats why i want it to be 1050 mana
The Hungarling is a 4000 gold item, so it is ok at 1575 mana, and we want an expensive mana item, like Groffling Warplate for armor items for example. I really want to keep it that way. Maybe just increase its price to 4250 gold?
I cant decide about the Plenor. Do you think it would be ok with 1400 mana? Or keep it at 1575?
ok I like the number of Vlemish too. lets keep it 1050 mana.
for Hungarling, for 1575 mana, then maybe 4250 gold.
Plenor, thats that same mana as hungarling for 1500 gold ONLY, it is a lot. 1375 Mana would be good. (I like the number better than 1400 ).
So here is an updated version:
550g : Scaled Helm : +525 Mana, +4 Mps
1500g: Plenor: +1375 Mana, + 35% Mps,
4250g: Hungarling: +1575 Mana, +18 Mps, -25% Cost Reduction Aura
I think we both agree on this.
Cooldown Reduction Aura is OP for only 2250 gold.
/Signed
Hmm.... maybe you are right, after all it is an Aura.
What if i make it so that it doesnt stack? Lets say that you get Staff of Renewal as a favor item, and you buy Vinling. So you would still get -20% to Cooldowns and not -35%.
Nooooooooooooo. Let it stack, thats the purpose. Plus not everyone get staff of renewal. If its too OP maybe decrease to -10% CD reduction aura.
Maybe we are overeacting a little.
Snipe has 15 seconds CD. -10% would be 13.5 sec. if it is -15% it would be 12.75 sec
It is a really small difference.
Now in the "worst" case: Lets say you get Staff of Renewal and playing in Cataract.
Staff -20%, CD Flag -15% = -35% Snipe would go from 15 sec to 9.75 seconds. Now if the Vinling was at -10% you would go to 8.25 seconds. And if it was -15% you would go to 7.5 seconds.
So the 5% differrence is really small, i will keep it at -15%.
5-10% should be ok.
After a long and interesting discussion, I think we have reached an agreement here. I can't wait to test out these new helms, and move on to the other items. I would suggest to start with HP first, because it is OP right now.
quick question:
10% or 15% ??
I think 10%.
ok -10%
Btw did you guys know that: Plenor BattleCrown originally had -15% to Cooldowns, and it was nerfed later because it was too OP. I saw it in the code, the first time i made this mod.
Anyway.... I will start making the changes
didn't know it.
Thankx morpheas!
How is HP OP?
HP isn't OP. It needs to be what it is, however, other things needs to be buffed. For example dmg items.
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