Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
BUGS
Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:
- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously
- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously
- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots
- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.
- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.
- Random Map Bugs:
- Single Phase lane starts
- No connected Asteroids
- Overlapping Gravity Wells
- Backwards Dunov Icon
- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)
- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock
- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul
- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.
- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING
- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).
CAPITAL SHIPS
This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.
Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)
Increase hp/shields/armor?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay-
Increase DPS?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon CallenExile Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Onigiri
Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Hrabandur Onigiri
Re-work Animosity?
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Hrabandur Onigiri
No Change needed- CoBBQ
Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)
Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- CallenExile MindsEye
No Change needed-
Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)
Buff Scramble Bombers?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Onigiri
Buff Replicate Forces?
Yay- Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
Increase AM regen?
Yay- Darvin3 Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- CallenExile Mindseye Onigiri
Increase maximum AM?
Yay- CallenExile Darvin3 Hrabandur Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon Onigiri
Increase Dunov EMP range?
Yay- CallenExile Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
Yay- Mindseye CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Deceiver_0
Nay- Ryat Volt_Cruelerz Warlord Mike Swordsalmon Onigiri
Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon
Buff Phase out hull?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- Ryat Onigiri
No Change Needed-
DELIVERANCE ENGINE
Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)
Buff Deliverance engine-
Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Kitkun Greyfox2 anteachtaire Mow Mow Warlord Mike Hrabandur Arthanis
Nay- Howdidudothat
No buff needed- Qu4r Darvin3 CallenExile
EMPIRE TREE
As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?
Adjust Empire Tree-
Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 SwordSalmon JSW_Ballz Mindseye Agent of Kharma Ryat 52500 Mow Mow Fuzzy Logic EadTaes Warlord Mike Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile
FIGHTERS
Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions
Buff Fighters-
Increase armor/hp?
Yay- Mindseye Mow Mow Greyfox2 Qu4r Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Ryat Top Vasari Warlord Mike EadTaes Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma CallenExile CrazyElectron
MAPS
Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?
Magnetic Clouds-
Allow starbase deployment?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Hrabandur Juletron Howdidudothat Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r CrazyElectron
Nay- Ryat CallenExile EadTaes DesConnor -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician
Ice/Volcanic planets-
Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Ryat Darvin3 Juletron Mindseye Mow Mow EadTaes JSW_Ballz Howdidudothat Warlord Mike Kitkun Ovi_187 -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CrazyElectron
Nay- CallenExile DesConnor DirtySanchezz Hrabandur Agent of Kharma Qu4r
No Changes needed-
ORKULUS STARBASE
This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.
Nerf Orkulus-
Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)
Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur Howdidudothat Top Vasari Swordsalmon Ryat anteachtaire LordMechanoid JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike Agent of Kharma DesConnor DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Qu4r CallenExile
Other-
SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")
Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Top Vasari Cykur LordMechanoid Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CallenExile CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- JSW_Ballz DesConnor Qu4r
SCOUT FRIGATES
A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.
Nerf Scouts-
Decrease hp/shields?
Yay-
Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur Arthanis
Decrease DPS?
Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Cykur
Increase Cost/supply?
Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon
Nay- DirtySanchezz Arthanis
No Nerf Needed- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma Sivcorp 52500 JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron
Balance Scouts-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Mow Mow Swordsalmon Darvin3 Ryat Greyfox2 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur Top Vasari LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile
Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?
Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat Greyfox2 Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Wingflier Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat CallenExile 52500 LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician JSW_Ballz Cykur Greyfox2 Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?
Yay- Mow Mow Swordsalmon Howdidudothat Ryat Chaotic Magician 52500 JSW_Ballz Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3 CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2 LordMechanoid Kitkun
Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid
No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma EadTaes DesConnor
RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS
While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?
Buff Skirmishers-
Increase DPS? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes DesConnor Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- LordMechanoid
Decrease Supply cost?
Yay- Raging Amish LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Resource cost?
Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike
Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat DirtySanchezz Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid lbgsloan Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r Arthanis
Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp Runesia DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Change minimum extractors on Ice/Volcanic planets to 3?- Yay
Also, I'm going to ask for a change to asteroids. They should have two extractors, instead of three. Asteroids with three extractors is too beneficial economic-wise for the amount of money spent on infacstructure. I think they pay off far too fast currently.
change magnetic storms is - NAY
change minimum extractors on Ice/Volcanic to 3 - YAY
I'm actually quite reserved on allowing starbases in magnetic storms. At very least we wouldn't be able to see meteor control, the big red button, or other vicious specials, but on the other hand you often do use your special abilities (particularly early game) to bring down starbases. For me, the deciding factor there was that it's simply unfair to have a trade chain expansion cut off by one of these.
Other changes that might be considered:
Allow SB in magnetic clouds: yae.
Nerf Orkulus: nay.
deceiver, this has been mentioned b4 by other ppl....
the jam weapons animation (after update) of the kortul is bugged, it shows the the rapid manufacturing animation when in effect
Jam Weapons changed from an instantaneous ability to an effect over time ability, and they reused the animation. I personally think it's fine.
Another thing that is annoying is that scouts do not avoid pirate bases with auto-explore. If the location of the pirate base is known, then scouts should never travel there when auto-explore is on. Its frustrating to have to micro scouts to not go to pirate bases where they are sure to be killed or at least severely damaged.
Random maps should not favor one side over another side and pirate bases ahould not be choke points. For example, in one recent MP game that I played, the map was divided into two halves, the only way to get to the other side was to travel through a pirate base. My side of the map had only a few roids and terrans and a volcanic. His side of the map had nearly twice as many planets including several deserts, an ice, a valcanic and a few terrans.
Magnetic Clouds allow SB deployment-yay
Ice and volcanic planets get a minimum of 3 mines-yay
About Magnetic clouds. Cykur and I were talking, and he convinced me that they're not without purpose, but they still annoy me. I have no idea if this is even possible, but I'd like it if the devs would adjust the random map generator so that magnetic clouds can't be next to a homeworld.
My biggest pet peeve in this game is on maps where I have an empty neutral providing grav well, a dead asteroid, a black hole, or a magnetic cloud NEXT to my homeworld. They're a a gigantic economic and tactical disadvantage right from the start.
If there was a way to make it so that these things can't be next to you to start, I'd be happy.
Currently, the game (provided it doesn't 1 phase lane start you) will guaranteed start you with at LEAST an asteroid and lava/ice. Go to the custon map generator, but turn off all the planets. The asteroid and ice/lava are hard coded into the random map generator so you always have three planets at least.
I'm just rattling off things that come to mind as potential imbalances. I'm not saying they are or aren't, but that if there's anywhere to talk about it, it's here.
Again, I'm just rattling off things that come to mind as potential imbalances. I'm not saying they are or aren't, but that if there's anywhere to talk about it, it's here.
I'd agree; I've been using magnetic clouds in my galaxyforge creations recently, and I find they're a great way to create buffers of empty space. The problem, as you say, is when the map generator puts one right next to your homeworld. Dead asteroids and wormholes as well shouldn't be next to homeworlds... and empties just shouldn't be.
Agreed; repulse isn't as much of a problem, but it's still a big problem. Mind you after the illuminator "mystery damage" gets fixed, maybe the other LRF will be in a better position to win that shootout.
I don't think the big red button is so much of an issue, since your opponent does lose the starbase and unless you had a shit load of Ogrovs you're on the winning side of that trade. As much as I love using meteors to counter Ogrovs, it's clearly too hard a counter to assault cruisers while simultaneously slaughtering whole fleets.
Vasari military tree in general needs some help. I'd also add the enforcer; unless it gets further buffs, it really needs to be tech level 4, because right now it's just so weak by the standards of heavies, and really needs reintegration just to match the others anyways.
Amish- I don't think starbase abilities need to be bothered with. They're a static defence of sorts, which must be researched, and esspecially the big red button shouldn't be touched, because you're sacrificing a starbase anyway.
As for Mag clouds, i say don't bother. They're there to be annoying. If anything, i think there should be 1 or 2 MORE annoying GWs out there. Is it THAT unbelieveable that there are anomolies out there with no beneficial purpose.
So, to be clear:
No to both Map Changes.
Big Red Button I'll agree, but meteor swarm is too powerful, and effectively makes the starbase counter anti-starbase units.
In response to moving overseer down in the tech tree:
I say, if vasari are warfare oriented, make ALL their ships come sooner than everyone else, ending with enforcer at tier 6. That way you'll have vasari's unanimously weak units earlier, where they'll be usefull, and maybe keep up if you stay on top of your ship-buff research.
Note- I still think vasari is playable as is, and you aren't UBERLY handicapped, but equality would make it better so you don't have to claw tooth and nail while your opponent sips brandy from onboard his Akkan...
Its really good too.
Neither do I. I'd like the range of the ogrov increased. The point of an anti-starbase unit is to kill a starbase, so it's no use if it can't do that.
Nope. I'm free to bitch and moan as much as I want
I agree here too, but that doesn't change the fact that I can rattle off a long list of reaons that the Vasari just seem to have a hand tied behind their back unlike the other races.
Maps
yay to ice/vol
Only prob with moving overseer to tier 3 is sb rushing.Its a pretty radical change.Moving enforcer to tier 4 is radical too.Thing about gaurds is they are really only effective if you have a progen.They have a ton of shields but once they are gone it takes forever to rebuild them.So they are one of the few supports that can be come nearly useless.
I been thinking about fighter issue and flak.Right now flak does a pretty crappy job at killing bombers so what if flak did less damage to fighters and a tad more to bombers.Make flak useful for both and let fighters live longer.Its kind of weird to me that flak counters fighters better then bombers since bombers are slow and fighters are fast and manuever more.I still think issue should be addressed in next patch.
Magnetic Clouds: Do not allow starbase deployment. I'm afraid a fully upgraded Orkulus may be too strong in a magnetic cloud well, even without it's abilities. Consider that nano-bomb, shield restore, etc. are also disabled, it may need too much of an attacker advantage.
Ice/Volcanic planets: Increase minimum mines to 3.
Skirmishers: Increase dps
Skirmishers: Do not decrease supply cost
Integration: Earlier activation (Perhaps, a trigger that compares remaining life and dps dealt to the unit, and bases activation time on that? Maybe too complicated, though)
I'd like to second Amish's point about hardcoding starting locations. However, I'd like to make it so that the game guarantees that the planets within immediate access from the home planet (within 1 phase jump) cannot be a noncolonizable body. It's much harder to defend, say, a gas giant or magnetic cloud than it is to defend from a lava planetoid, not even counting tax income.
I like the idea of magnetic clouds working as phase jump inhibiters. Maybe slowing down ship movement in general. You'll know you have time to prepare if something jumps into one. Since abilities are useless, it would be harder to destroy everything as the fleet tried to warp out.
I may be wrong but wasn't LF ability range increased to 8000 last patch? That outranges repulse which is 7500 range.
[_]-Greyfox
SB in Magnetic clouds Iw ill say NO
3 mines Minimum for Ice/Volcanic worlds YES
No changes at all to scouts for now.
Skirmisher needs increased DPS or increased reintergration rate/earlier activation. But not booth.
Thing about the overseer is, unlike the other races, overseer does not require pre-requisite research (like shield or repair research) that actually makes it the CHEAPEST support ship to obtain as it requires only 1 more lab and a handful more resources to research. And yes, moving them down would make them obtainable to an SB rusher too early, throwing the balance scales out the window. Overseers have good reason to be in tier 4, and in truth a player who has spent the money to get a hoshis or guardians has spent MORE than a vasari player would have to to plop down an extra lab somehwere and research overseers. I don't see that as a huge disadvantage.
Also: On random maps a roid and an ice/volcanic are hardcoded in, but their phase lanes are not (still random generated by the map which is the reason why people get roid screwed and single phase lane starts, if the phase lanes were hard-coded, that would most certainly fix both problems. It would be nice if a terran/dessert and a asteroid belt were hardcoded in to be near ones hw too (certainly not 1 jump).
For the TEC, we can safely presume that the repair bay is a sunk cost, so the Hoshiko really has only one technology prerequisite which is increased repair speed for repair bays, which is very useful as it stands. So the Hoshiko prerequisites basically only slow you down, they aren't extra costs. Even for the guardian, the shield point upgrades are useful upgrades to begin with, though there they can be thought of as something of an impediment since they would otherwise not be high priorities.
For the Overseer, there are a few things working in favour of moving it down a tier. First of all, it is certainly the weakest of the three low-level support cruisers. Secondly, Vasari typically does rely on getting its units out somewhat sooner than the other factions. Thirdly, Vasari have quite the hardest time of any faction countering LRF and support cruisers to begin with. Really, I find that until I have subverters on the field I can't do that much against support cruisers at all as Vasari.
You persuaded me to ur side.
Bugs:
On Normal Start extractors seem to produce once queued rather than when constructed- I'm not sure whether this is a more general bug yet, can someone confirm it?
Once an Advent AI has researched Homing Mines, its Drone Hosts become entirely ineffective.
Kol and Kortul graphics bugs need to be added.
Balance changes:
No to starbase deployment in magnatic clouds, though I favour the suggested jump time increase. If starbases can't be deployed there, why do magnetic clouds stop trade though- bug?
No to minimum mines, though I favour the reclassification of ice planets so that they get the same militia as deserts.
No to Orkulus and scout changes.
Add me to the skirmisher dps buff!
The 'lobbers' need to 'lob' to be effective, I'd trade substantial range increases of 50-100% for health and shields- there doesn't seem a good reason why the standard siege shouldn't be a stronger unit than the specialised ones?
The Vasari support cruisers simply need more health, their faction is supposed to be very strong on health, and yet they are far too fragile.
Also... why should the shield-heavy Advent get better repair bays than Vasari...? Advent bays should be degraded. I'd improve the Vasari ones to the midpoint of the TEC, 30%.
Further, unless the game's lore is altered substantially, the Advent encounter phase jump inhibitors later than TEC, so they should be later in the tech tree- Tier 5, or Tier 4 if the TEC ones are reduced.
Thanks Amish.
Darvin-
While repair tech and shield tech may be a "sunk cost" its still a cost, meaning less of your cash is going into other things Prerequisites aren't useless by any stretch, but they're still soaking up money. A vasari player could use the money he saved not researching pre-reqs to purchase similarly useful techs, but do it anytime he wants. And the time it takes to research 2-3 pre-requisite techs is less than it would take to add a fourth lab and research overseers. I have no doubt that if I wanted to, I could rush to Overseers faster than anyone could get guardians or hoshis.
I can agree with you there. But again its also the cheapest to research, and its still useful as hell.
I would agree with you if it weren't for quickstart. That huge advantage to having 1 lab lrms was lost in quickstart, so I don't really think they rely on it that much anymore..
Vasari do have a hard time countering... illums. But everyone does because theyre bugged, once they fall in line I don't think they'll be as difficult to counter as vasari. As for support cruisers, I'm hoping the skirmisher will get a boost so support cruisers aren't as daunting, but I've never really had a serious support cruiser problem as Vasari.
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