Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
BUGS
Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:
- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously
- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously
- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots
- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.
- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.
- Random Map Bugs:
- Single Phase lane starts
- No connected Asteroids
- Overlapping Gravity Wells
- Backwards Dunov Icon
- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)
- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock
- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul
- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.
- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING
- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).
CAPITAL SHIPS
This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.
Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)
Increase hp/shields/armor?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay-
Increase DPS?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon CallenExile Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Onigiri
Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Hrabandur Onigiri
Re-work Animosity?
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Hrabandur Onigiri
No Change needed- CoBBQ
Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)
Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- CallenExile MindsEye
No Change needed-
Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)
Buff Scramble Bombers?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Onigiri
Buff Replicate Forces?
Yay- Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
Increase AM regen?
Yay- Darvin3 Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- CallenExile Mindseye Onigiri
Increase maximum AM?
Yay- CallenExile Darvin3 Hrabandur Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon Onigiri
Increase Dunov EMP range?
Yay- CallenExile Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
Yay- Mindseye CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Deceiver_0
Nay- Ryat Volt_Cruelerz Warlord Mike Swordsalmon Onigiri
Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon
Buff Phase out hull?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- Ryat Onigiri
No Change Needed-
DELIVERANCE ENGINE
Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)
Buff Deliverance engine-
Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Kitkun Greyfox2 anteachtaire Mow Mow Warlord Mike Hrabandur Arthanis
Nay- Howdidudothat
No buff needed- Qu4r Darvin3 CallenExile
EMPIRE TREE
As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?
Adjust Empire Tree-
Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 SwordSalmon JSW_Ballz Mindseye Agent of Kharma Ryat 52500 Mow Mow Fuzzy Logic EadTaes Warlord Mike Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile
FIGHTERS
Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions
Buff Fighters-
Increase armor/hp?
Yay- Mindseye Mow Mow Greyfox2 Qu4r Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Ryat Top Vasari Warlord Mike EadTaes Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma CallenExile CrazyElectron
MAPS
Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?
Magnetic Clouds-
Allow starbase deployment?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Hrabandur Juletron Howdidudothat Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r CrazyElectron
Nay- Ryat CallenExile EadTaes DesConnor -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician
Ice/Volcanic planets-
Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Ryat Darvin3 Juletron Mindseye Mow Mow EadTaes JSW_Ballz Howdidudothat Warlord Mike Kitkun Ovi_187 -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CrazyElectron
Nay- CallenExile DesConnor DirtySanchezz Hrabandur Agent of Kharma Qu4r
No Changes needed-
ORKULUS STARBASE
This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.
Nerf Orkulus-
Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)
Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur Howdidudothat Top Vasari Swordsalmon Ryat anteachtaire LordMechanoid JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike Agent of Kharma DesConnor DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Qu4r CallenExile
Other-
SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")
Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Top Vasari Cykur LordMechanoid Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CallenExile CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- JSW_Ballz DesConnor Qu4r
SCOUT FRIGATES
A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.
Nerf Scouts-
Decrease hp/shields?
Yay-
Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur Arthanis
Decrease DPS?
Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Cykur
Increase Cost/supply?
Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon
Nay- DirtySanchezz Arthanis
No Nerf Needed- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma Sivcorp 52500 JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron
Balance Scouts-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Mow Mow Swordsalmon Darvin3 Ryat Greyfox2 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur Top Vasari LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile
Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?
Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat Greyfox2 Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Wingflier Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat CallenExile 52500 LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician JSW_Ballz Cykur Greyfox2 Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?
Yay- Mow Mow Swordsalmon Howdidudothat Ryat Chaotic Magician 52500 JSW_Ballz Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3 CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2 LordMechanoid Kitkun
Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid
No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma EadTaes DesConnor
RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS
While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?
Buff Skirmishers-
Increase DPS? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes DesConnor Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- LordMechanoid
Decrease Supply cost?
Yay- Raging Amish LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Resource cost?
Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike
Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat DirtySanchezz Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid lbgsloan Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r Arthanis
Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp Runesia DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Ha ha, not a bug. You are attacking a vasari who has the hanger upgrades that freeze your strikecraft in phase space.
Thanks for clearing that up Agent of Kharma! Have not played as Vasari since I got Entrenchment. False alarm, move along, nothing to see here...
Increase DPS? Yay-
FIX STINKING LUMS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One topic that's recently being discussed is the relative uselessness of TEC Shield Generators. I table a motion for discussion. Any seconds?
You mean the planetary shields? I agree that they're not so helpful. I'm not completely sure how to balance them, though. I know you could up the amount of damage they can sustain, but I don't think it'll make them all that worthwhile. Reducing logistic slots would help. Giving them a new ability would as well (but it'd be very easy to make them overpowered).
Really, I only see them being useful if people start heavily using Novalith Cannons or if seige frigates get a boost in power. 'Course, the other races might be left high and dry in that scenario.
herm... sheild generators... nano-weapon jammers... and anti-matter rechagers...
no one ever uses them. at least in multiplayer. ever.
because by the time you got to the point where you can build them either your already winning, or the super weapons are about to get broken out, and no one cares about defences any more.
what we we dropped them down to tier 3 or so? and their upgrades tier 5 (currently they are, what... tier 5 and 7, right?)
although, i think advent will benefit the most from this... as i see antimatter rechargers being the most usefull... but if the illum bug is fixed, that might be ok.
The way I see it, Pbhead, is that nano-weapon jammers and anti-matter rechargers are still decent technologies, even if largely unused in multiplayer because of the nature of online play. But the problem with the shield generator is, it seems to have been outclassed by the starbase, as well as "out-teched" (starbase comes at an earlier tech). In other words, it might not be used even in single player. I'm not saying that there isn't any conceivable utility in the shield generator, but it seems at this juncture that it has a very limited utility, and perhaps a dubious utility.
I don't think there has ever been any tech tree rearrangement in the history of this game due to patches, hotfixes, etc. It is too much to do for a patch, too involved from a programming standpoint, too much of a "game changer" from a gameplay standpoint, etc. If you are recommending tech tree changes (bringing shield gen down in tier), what you could hope for is that this could be incorporated for Diplomacy.
Warlord Mike has tabled a motion for discussion. So anyone who has ideas (Pbhead and others), head over to my post on this topic and make your case!
For all three of those technologies, I think Pbhead got it right, they need to be lower tiered for anyone to care to use them. I would put them at tier 4 and 6, because to get a good economy going, each race needs AT LEAST 3, at which point "1 more lab to get a nice fleet helping tactical structure" might not be so bad. As I have said before, and has been mentaioned above, the Shield Generator is obsolete due to starbases and their much easier to get planetary protection. The only thing the shield generator does at this point is protect the planets population, and lets face it, that really isnt worth the cost to get, or build them, especially when they can be so easily destroyed by the large fleets running around at that point in the game. I think it needs to do something else to be worthwhile.
A few suggestions I've heard that I like:
-Doing damage to enemy ships too close to the planet
-Granting the planet a significant increase in population (safety thing, a bit like HW prophecy for Advent)
-Granting increased shield regeneration or mitigation to friendly ships near the planet.
Any of those sound good?
Here is my idea for the Shield Generator. Give it an Area of Effect that is fairly large -- about the range of a Repair Platform -- and any orbital structure that takes damage within that AoE must first deplete the health of the "Shield", or possibly share some of the damage to the Shield. When the Shield is depleted, damage goes straight to the structures. It would essentially work a lot like an immobile guardian. It probably should not be able to protect ships, just orbital structures -- that would be too much.
Probably won't see the light of day, but maybe someone will stick it in a mod.
The problem with the anti-matter recharger for the Advent is that if you're going to spend money researching it and building them, then why not just research the normal anti-matter tech instead--the ones that increase your ships' antimatter capacity and regneration rate.
Perhaps the Vasari nano-weapons jammer would be useful, but for planetary defense Vasari players are more likely to invest the money in a starbase. Ditto for the TEC and their planetary shield generator.
I actually did see a guy build a Shield Generator today in a 1v1 game. This must have beent he first one I've seen anyone build in, perhaps, all of my time playing online.
You can research either or both. The researching of one does not preclude the researching of the other - both are useful. I have used both, at the same time no less, to good effect. One way to use it is defensively, if your fleet is being attacked at one of your planets. You sit on top of the antimatter recharger much as you would sit atop repair bays. Another use is as a "milk cow" of sorts to support an attack on a planet. You build the antimatter recharger one jump back on your planet, and jump your ship or ships back as needed to load up on antimatter.
I think you are thinking in terms of MP only. The game is SP too. While I happen to think that UNIT BALANCE should revolve around MP, I don't think that the entire game IN GENERAL should revolve around MP. If the pace of MP is so fast, the maps so small, the speed so hectic, the games so short, blah blah, that the antimatter recharger doesn't get put to much use, that's fine - it gets put to use in SP.
I have used the Weapons jammer in conjunction with a starbase with impressive results, it really cuts down the speed at which a large fleet of spammed units (*cough* illums *cough*) can kill a starbase. And I've found the AM recharger is great for quickly switching your carriers from say all fighters to all bombers.
But even back when I played Single Player, I found little use for Planetary Shields, and now that theres entrenchment and starbases, ALL they do above Starbases is protect planetary population, they don't offer any real incentive (yea, I dont really consider that nearly enough incentive to spend the money) to tech to them, and if you teched to 5 labs for other reasons, you still have little use for them.
I think the whole idea behind them was to help protect your planets from Vasari Marauder raids, which in the beginning was a sound idea, but now there is something that does it better and offers WAY MORE protection, and other benefits (like trade). Shield generator needs to be updated IMO for entrenchment, not necessarily for MP (although making them available at 4 labs would put them to greater use, I mean, short of Superweapons, theyre the most tech advanced structure you can research, and they arent THAT amazing, I just feel the tech Gap between them and other tactical structures isnt really justified).
I'm totally in agreement with you (though I think that in both friendly and enemy grav wells it builds too fast).
They build kind of slowly in enemy gravwells already....they slowed down SB build speeds once already back in beta.
The main problem here is when someone feeds the Vasari player to SB rush you. In which case, you should probably ask for your own feed. The other time SB rushing is a problem is when my fleet is tied up fighting someone else....so really, these are 2v1 situations, hard for anyone to deal with. If it is a true 1v1 situation and the Vasari rushed you with a starbase, I don't see it being a problem because the Vasari player is putting all their eggs in one basket. If you immediately put your fleet on the starbase, even if you are using ineffective ships, you should be able to do enough damage to kill it shortly after it is built.
SB are critical for both Vasari offense and defense; another slowdown of SB build speed would remove the last thing they have going for them. It is the main reason to have 1 or 2 Vasari on your side in a team game.
One possible solution would be to nerf scouts, so you won't feel so bad about making Illuminators to counter early starbases.
I agree with Cykur on this. If you slow the SB build speed too much, it won't be possible to build them in enemy grav wells. I was in the beta, and seem to remember them building slower, and that being an issue, but someone can correct me on that if I'm wrong.
I guess I'm open-minded to listen to why the build should be slower, but as of right now I see no problem with the current build speed.
ya, i se no problem iwth the build speed... most of the starbases i try to shneak get destroyed before they are built.
however... back to plantary shields... am rechargers and nano jammers.
I dont really like the idea of the plantary shield protectiong structures... since the advent hanger bay allready does that... at tier 3. I do like the idea of having the planetary shield having some sort of ablitiy that actually uses the large AM reserves it has.
It is ironic that the planetary shield has AM reserves. It never uses them. I use the planetary shield on SP against pirates (I fight the DS style pirates, which are mean and nasty) because I need to focus on taking out the pirate fleet before I can take out the pirate siege frigates. I have watched them bomb the planet for a good 2 minutes (barely even scratch the planet) and the AM reserves do nothing.
I agree with Cykur in that, it is pretty difficult, and a major gamble to SB rush someone 1v1. Without a fleet to go along with it (through feed or doubling), the only good way to pull of an SB rush is by sneaking it, and these days, any semi-experienced MP Entrench player will be watching out for that like a hawk upon seeing any sign of Vasari nearby.
Additionally, as hard as it is to put a Orkulus in an enemy Vasari well, making it take longer would make it even more difficult. Think about it like this, two migrators build Orkuli at the same time, one visitor, one home team. The home teams gets finished when the visitors is only a 3rd of the way done, leaving plenty of time for the home team to upgrade and kill the visitors before its even finished. Even if the visitor had a 50% head start, the home team would still have enough time to produce a migrator at a local factory and have it finish BEFORE or around the SAME TIME as the visitors.
While, yeah, I think a build speed nerf could help those team game situations where SB rush=doom (which personally I think are becoming less and less effective as people are learning to adapt, survive, and win even if the SB matures), the game isnt all about the MP team games, and we ought to base our opinions in matters concerning balance on an equally skilled 1v1 basis. That is why I think that, skill being equal 1v1, the SB rush requires a good deal of cunning to pull off and take a quick victory. The SB rush is a viable strategy that isn't an instant win, but can be deadly just as any other strategy if implemented with skill, and I think nerfing the build rate would force it to require skill beyond a reasonable level to be considered a workable option. I say this because, even in team games, SB rush is part of a Vasari players arsenal, but doesn't dominate his opening strategy (much unlike lums dominating an Advent players strategy).
That being said, I do try not to let my personal opinions stand in the way of progress, I'll put it to a vote in an upcoming update.
Just a note about SB rushing....in a game I was just playing as TEC, a Vasari AI tried to sneak a SB onto one of my worlds...I was fighting the AI's ships, and chased them off and I noticed that while I had been fighting, it had started building a SB. (way to go AI!). Most of my cash had just gone into my own TEC SB, which of course was not close enough to the Vasari base to do anything, so I immediately put my fleet -- 17 scouts and 2 cobalts, on it. My low level Marza had to chug it's way over to help. The Marza, 17 scouts, 2 cobalts killed it just as it was about done building. It didn't get to fire a single shot. Get a friend and do a test game online and try it. There is no problem here.
I would agree that the build time is too quick for SB in enemy wells. Your comments about a vasari against a vasari in terms of sb rushing is not useful really. The home field that builds an sb is always going to have the advantage with everything else equal because of build time and upgrade speed and the only time a vasari can sb a vasari and have it work is to catch him totally by surprise. It is different though when it is against advent or tec. The vasari has the advantage of being able to move out of the way of any advent or tec base and can pick off any outlying structures, extractors, and units and still pose problems to the well in general. It can still be difficult to take down a building SB even when you expect it because they dont generally come alone but with a carrier cap or 2 or an egg to kill off lrf or other units that try to kill it off. Just my opinion though.
[_]-Greyfox
I just don't like how when a SB gets done building, any damage it was taking during build is negated and it goes right on being happy and healthily killing my shit.
Re-railing back to the shield generators...
I like this idea, too. Making your orbitals harder to destroy, in addition to the planet-bombing mitigation, would certainly make them far more useful. It would be a bit overpowered if your own ships were defended, as well - it probably wouldn't be necessary, anyway.
Has anyone addressed the fact that Nano-Jammers and Antimatter Regenerators autocast - even if there isn't anyone around? If not, then I feel that ALSO should be addressed.
Its in the bugs section above.
Im just saying, why make it harder?
I think sb build in enemy wells is to high.I think 3x would be to much but it needs to be 2.5-2.75 longer.Alot of vas are getting 2 carrier caps from start and those things heal a sb.Also rape scouts.Sometimes in those cases its hard to see it coming because they are expanding with migrators anyway.Its a big gamble but it pays off extremely well.So I think it should be tougher to pull off.Consider if they fix scouts and vas skirmisher.Vas could quickly become op in begininng.
I think deciver should open up for a buff to fighters as a counter to lrf.Fix scouts and fighters lrf wont be a problem.Dont over fix fighters tho.I suggest increasing hp and maybe decreasing build times.I know I have suggested this before and I had it in my mod which seemed to work well.Just my opinion.Fighters will live longer to be able to kill lrf at the same time flak keep their damage multipliers and kill fighters.Once they are dead there is a window to strike back at carriers who are fighterless for a longer time.That way there is consequences to suiciding ships.Balancing cap abilities to new hull would be easy and wouldnt really need to be adjusted anyway since there is more of a penalty for losing sc.
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