Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
BUGS
Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:
- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously
- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously
- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots
- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.
- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.
- Random Map Bugs:
- Single Phase lane starts
- No connected Asteroids
- Overlapping Gravity Wells
- Backwards Dunov Icon
- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)
- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock
- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul
- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.
- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING
- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).
CAPITAL SHIPS
This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.
Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)
Increase hp/shields/armor?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay-
Increase DPS?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon CallenExile Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Onigiri
Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Hrabandur Onigiri
Re-work Animosity?
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Hrabandur Onigiri
No Change needed- CoBBQ
Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)
Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- CallenExile MindsEye
No Change needed-
Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)
Buff Scramble Bombers?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Onigiri
Buff Replicate Forces?
Yay- Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
Increase AM regen?
Yay- Darvin3 Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- CallenExile Mindseye Onigiri
Increase maximum AM?
Yay- CallenExile Darvin3 Hrabandur Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon Onigiri
Increase Dunov EMP range?
Yay- CallenExile Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
Yay- Mindseye CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Deceiver_0
Nay- Ryat Volt_Cruelerz Warlord Mike Swordsalmon Onigiri
Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon
Buff Phase out hull?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- Ryat Onigiri
No Change Needed-
DELIVERANCE ENGINE
Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)
Buff Deliverance engine-
Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Kitkun Greyfox2 anteachtaire Mow Mow Warlord Mike Hrabandur Arthanis
Nay- Howdidudothat
No buff needed- Qu4r Darvin3 CallenExile
EMPIRE TREE
As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?
Adjust Empire Tree-
Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 SwordSalmon JSW_Ballz Mindseye Agent of Kharma Ryat 52500 Mow Mow Fuzzy Logic EadTaes Warlord Mike Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile
FIGHTERS
Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions
Buff Fighters-
Increase armor/hp?
Yay- Mindseye Mow Mow Greyfox2 Qu4r Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Ryat Top Vasari Warlord Mike EadTaes Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma CallenExile CrazyElectron
MAPS
Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?
Magnetic Clouds-
Allow starbase deployment?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Hrabandur Juletron Howdidudothat Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r CrazyElectron
Nay- Ryat CallenExile EadTaes DesConnor -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician
Ice/Volcanic planets-
Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Ryat Darvin3 Juletron Mindseye Mow Mow EadTaes JSW_Ballz Howdidudothat Warlord Mike Kitkun Ovi_187 -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CrazyElectron
Nay- CallenExile DesConnor DirtySanchezz Hrabandur Agent of Kharma Qu4r
No Changes needed-
ORKULUS STARBASE
This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.
Nerf Orkulus-
Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)
Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur Howdidudothat Top Vasari Swordsalmon Ryat anteachtaire LordMechanoid JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike Agent of Kharma DesConnor DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Qu4r CallenExile
Other-
SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")
Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Top Vasari Cykur LordMechanoid Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CallenExile CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- JSW_Ballz DesConnor Qu4r
SCOUT FRIGATES
A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.
Nerf Scouts-
Decrease hp/shields?
Yay-
Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur Arthanis
Decrease DPS?
Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Cykur
Increase Cost/supply?
Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon
Nay- DirtySanchezz Arthanis
No Nerf Needed- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma Sivcorp 52500 JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron
Balance Scouts-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Mow Mow Swordsalmon Darvin3 Ryat Greyfox2 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur Top Vasari LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile
Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?
Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat Greyfox2 Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Wingflier Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat CallenExile 52500 LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician JSW_Ballz Cykur Greyfox2 Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?
Yay- Mow Mow Swordsalmon Howdidudothat Ryat Chaotic Magician 52500 JSW_Ballz Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3 CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2 LordMechanoid Kitkun
Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid
No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma EadTaes DesConnor
RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS
While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?
Buff Skirmishers-
Increase DPS? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes DesConnor Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- LordMechanoid
Decrease Supply cost?
Yay- Raging Amish LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Resource cost?
Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike
Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat DirtySanchezz Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid lbgsloan Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r Arthanis
Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp Runesia DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Magnetic clouds are good places to have strikecraft heavy fleets try and make a stand against ability heavy fleets. I've seen em used as such a couple times. They are graveyards for capitals which live and die by their abilities.
I think the problem with lava / ice isn't that they have only 2 extractors, I think the problem is asteroids shouldn't ever have 3...they should only have 1 or 2. A string of asteroids at the beginning of a match can give one person a huge advantage.
On the nerf Scouts section: Put me down for no nerf needed.
On the nerf Advent/buff Vas Scouts section:
Y,
N,
N
I'd put in my opinion into
- Decreasing Seeker HP/Shields
- Increasing Navigator DPS
I'd also like to *slightly* increase Navigator HP/Shield in relation to the other two scouts, but its not on there so
Scout Balance
Decrease Seeker HP/Shields?
Yay (If Disciple isn't nerfed)
Decrease Seeker DPS?
Yay
Decrease Jikara's supply/cost?
Nay
Increase Jikara's DPS?
If a decision to nerf the Disciple Vessel gains a majority, please remove my vote to decrease Seeker's HP/Shields. Currently, Advent has both the best LF and Scout, so one or the other has to be weakened.
Decrease hp/shields? Nay
Decrease DPS? YayIncrease Cost/supply? Nay
Balance Scouts- Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields? Nay Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS? Yay if other scouts' DPS is similarly decreased, otherwise Nay. Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply? Nay Increase Jikara Navigator DPS? Nay
No Nerf Needed-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields?
Nerf Scouts:
no change needed
Balance Scouts:
You also may want to add as an option "decrease seeker armour". It should be noted that for some reason the seeker his higher armour than other scout types (TEC=1, Vas=1.5, Adv=2). I personally find the Vasari scout's dps is within reason, the problem is that they're too fragile for their cost.
Scouts in general need no nerf
as for Balance
yes to decrease Seeker hp/shield
nay to decrease of seeker dps
nay to decrease navigator supply
yes to increase of navigator dps
yes to increase of navigator hp/shields
Decrease Navigator Supply to match the other 2. Or at least tell us why all vasari ships take so much supply in the 1st place?
Nay to other scout topics.
Side note:Has anyone ever had a ship try to leave a gravity well without going to phase space? I had a Kol do it once a coupe years ago, and today, a Cobalt turned its nose straight down from my capitol planet and just went for it. (I concequentially scuttled it, desertion is after all a capitol offense.)
Scout nerfing: Nay
Balancing scouts:
*I will pass judgement on the seeker for now, as I haven't played Advent in a while*
-Nay to decrease of navigator supply
+Yay to increase of navigator dps (though not a large increase)
+Yay to increase of navigator hp/shields (personally, I think that this may be the issue with the Vas scout, rather than the dps)
Scout nerfing: NO NERF NEEDED.
Balancing scouts: NO BALANCING NEEDED.
Scout nerf: NAY
Scout Balance:
NEEDS ADDED - Re-balance scout armor: YAY
increase navigator HP/shields: YAY
Scout armor should be as follows - Tec 1.5, Vas 2, Advent 1
DO NOT decrease the hp/shields of any of the scouts!!!!
They need to survive when doing their job. (scouting)
As to scouts, I say DPS nerf all around although navigator does not as much need it. I believe in general they should keep their health for what should be their main function(scouting to those that didn't know) but the seeker in particular could use a hp nerf if the dps is not decreased. I would not be in favor of a navigator dps or supply buff. Navigators are useful enough as is with neutrals. The cost and supply does not need changed. DPS decrease is needed rather than health in my opinion.
[_]-Greyfox
I either agree with grey or say supply increase.This would keep scouts good for early early lrf rush as a counter but hamper making fleets of them and make mil much more enticing.
Nerf Scouts
Balance Scouts
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply
These are my opinions on the matters at hand. Take them as you will.Nerf Scouts:Yay - No Nerf NeededBalance Scouts:Yay - Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?Nay - Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?Nay - Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?Yay - Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?Nay - Invrease Jikara Navigator hp/shields?Buff Skirmishers:Yay - Increase DPS?Nay - Decrease Supply cost?Nay - Decrease Resource cost?Yay - Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier? (This last one sounds more like a bug fix than a balance, but I definetly want it to happen.)
for scouts yay to decreasing seekers hp/sheilds and armour. y
and yay to increase jikara Navigators dps.
Nerf Scouts- Decrease hp/shields? Nay- Decrease DPS? Nay- Increase Cost/supply? Yay- The problem is not that scouts do too much damage...the problem is that they are too cheap. All scouts should cost about 250cr and take 3 supply. You still want scouts to be able to fight a bit or shoot down mines, but you don't want the cost / efficiency ratio to be so low that you reward players for spamming a level 0 unit.Balance Scouts- Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor? Yay- Seekers are out of line health wise...they could stand to lose about 150 hp/shields. Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS? Nay- Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply? Nay- All scouts should cost about this much, there is no reason to make Vasari scouts just as spammable as the other races....you want to make the other races scouts less spammable. Increase Jikara Navigator DPS? Nay- It already does more damage. Invrease Jikara Navigator hp/shields? Nay-
To explain my reasoning, I think the current problem with scouts is not that they are too tough, it is that they are too cheap. They should all cost roughly 250cr and take 3 supply. Because scouts are so cheap and fast building, it is no big deal for an Advent / TEC player to keep 50 of them in their fleet for LRF suppression and to use as a general meat shield for more valuable ships.
I don't think you should nerf the fighting stats of all the scouts because they still need to fill their role of fighting over neutrals, hunting down things like colonizers, and sweeping minefields. A cost/supplyl increase doesn't really noticeably affect people who don't spam tons of scouts. And you don't need to make the Vasari scout tougher, then you get Vasari spamming scouts more than any other ship because all of the other Vasari ships have bad cost efficiencies. Instead, just bring the cost of other races scouts in line with what the Vasari scout costs.
If the cost was a bit higher and scouts all took 3 supply, they would still be viable to make as an emergency counter, but they would be less desirable as an optimized spam strategy. The whole point is to reward people for teching up to more powerful ships, not rewarding them for building tons of the weakest ship in the game.
An error is that on the Sova infocard, it says that it does 3 laser damage, and then below that it says that it does 30 laser damage. I don't know you consider typos to be bugs, but it is confusing.
I think the sova does different laser damage from different laser batteries. At least, that's what i've always assumed since it does have 2 facing forward. I think those are the different ones. (Don't know if the side-mounted ones do the larger damage, though. If i'm even right.)
Scouts - Balance OR Nerf: I ain't touching that one.
Skirmishers:
I would like to have my vote changed a bit.
Increase cost/supply-Yay
To clarify, I also vote nay on any navigator buff and yay on a seeker dps nerf.
Bug: Strike craft freezing up (unresponsive to move and attack orders) for undetermined amount of time in enemy grav-wells (have not seen it happen on home court). Occurs in single player and multi player, usually late game.
I haven't had that happen. Which race were you fighting? I think Advent have an ability that keeps them in place, but i'm not sure, and i know Vasari can stop their weapons from firing, but not stop the squadrons from moving.
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