Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
BUGS
Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:
- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously
- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously
- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots
- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.
- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.
- Random Map Bugs:
- Single Phase lane starts
- No connected Asteroids
- Overlapping Gravity Wells
- Backwards Dunov Icon
- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)
- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock
- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul
- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.
- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING
- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).
CAPITAL SHIPS
This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.
Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)
Increase hp/shields/armor?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay-
Increase DPS?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon CallenExile Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Onigiri
Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Hrabandur Onigiri
Re-work Animosity?
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Hrabandur Onigiri
No Change needed- CoBBQ
Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)
Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- CallenExile MindsEye
No Change needed-
Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)
Buff Scramble Bombers?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Onigiri
Buff Replicate Forces?
Yay- Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
Increase AM regen?
Yay- Darvin3 Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- CallenExile Mindseye Onigiri
Increase maximum AM?
Yay- CallenExile Darvin3 Hrabandur Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon Onigiri
Increase Dunov EMP range?
Yay- CallenExile Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
Yay- Mindseye CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Deceiver_0
Nay- Ryat Volt_Cruelerz Warlord Mike Swordsalmon Onigiri
Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon
Buff Phase out hull?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- Ryat Onigiri
No Change Needed-
DELIVERANCE ENGINE
Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)
Buff Deliverance engine-
Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Kitkun Greyfox2 anteachtaire Mow Mow Warlord Mike Hrabandur Arthanis
Nay- Howdidudothat
No buff needed- Qu4r Darvin3 CallenExile
EMPIRE TREE
As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?
Adjust Empire Tree-
Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 SwordSalmon JSW_Ballz Mindseye Agent of Kharma Ryat 52500 Mow Mow Fuzzy Logic EadTaes Warlord Mike Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile
FIGHTERS
Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions
Buff Fighters-
Increase armor/hp?
Yay- Mindseye Mow Mow Greyfox2 Qu4r Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Ryat Top Vasari Warlord Mike EadTaes Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma CallenExile CrazyElectron
MAPS
Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?
Magnetic Clouds-
Allow starbase deployment?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Hrabandur Juletron Howdidudothat Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r CrazyElectron
Nay- Ryat CallenExile EadTaes DesConnor -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician
Ice/Volcanic planets-
Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Ryat Darvin3 Juletron Mindseye Mow Mow EadTaes JSW_Ballz Howdidudothat Warlord Mike Kitkun Ovi_187 -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CrazyElectron
Nay- CallenExile DesConnor DirtySanchezz Hrabandur Agent of Kharma Qu4r
No Changes needed-
ORKULUS STARBASE
This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.
Nerf Orkulus-
Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)
Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur Howdidudothat Top Vasari Swordsalmon Ryat anteachtaire LordMechanoid JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike Agent of Kharma DesConnor DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Qu4r CallenExile
Other-
SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")
Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Top Vasari Cykur LordMechanoid Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CallenExile CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- JSW_Ballz DesConnor Qu4r
SCOUT FRIGATES
A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.
Nerf Scouts-
Decrease hp/shields?
Yay-
Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur Arthanis
Decrease DPS?
Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Cykur
Increase Cost/supply?
Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon
Nay- DirtySanchezz Arthanis
No Nerf Needed- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma Sivcorp 52500 JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron
Balance Scouts-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Mow Mow Swordsalmon Darvin3 Ryat Greyfox2 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur Top Vasari LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile
Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?
Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat Greyfox2 Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Wingflier Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat CallenExile 52500 LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician JSW_Ballz Cykur Greyfox2 Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?
Yay- Mow Mow Swordsalmon Howdidudothat Ryat Chaotic Magician 52500 JSW_Ballz Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3 CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2 LordMechanoid Kitkun
Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid
No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma EadTaes DesConnor
RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS
While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?
Buff Skirmishers-
Increase DPS? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes DesConnor Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- LordMechanoid
Decrease Supply cost?
Yay- Raging Amish LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Resource cost?
Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike
Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat DirtySanchezz Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid lbgsloan Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r Arthanis
Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp Runesia DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Are you guys taking into consideration the upgrade that allows sb to target 1 extra target.Thats a 25% boost in firepower from 1 direction.Put the orky in the middle and target extre 4 structures at once.It also gives 10% damage buff.
Lets start with 25% buff at the most. You want to buff it not make it unstoppable. I have no objection to a buff. The Orky is rather poor on the structure damage aspect. But I also dont want to see it destroy 3-4 of my structures at once in just a few shots. Personally I dont find anything wrong with the current Orky. So it has a flaw...so what? It has greater grav well control than any other unit.
But if your gonna buff the Orky to 50% I want a 25% buff to Resupply. B/c now I fear that with the buff and with Kortul's recent Distruptive Strike fix, my repair bays are gonna be worthless, draining AM from use and Distruptive strike.
The Ogrov is definitely the best anti-structure tool in the game. Nothing else compares. I'd much sooner be looking at the weak Adjudicator than the disintegrator weapons of the Orkulus as a point of weakness.
@ Minds - Yes, I also had the +1 targets upgrade. When I say "fully", then, damn it, I meant FULLY!
Darvin makes a good point. The Adjudicator needs more help than the Orky. At least the Orky can multitask. The Adjudicator is worthless unless you have a lot and you are aiming at a lot of structures.
To the adjudicator, I once again bring up my suggestion from the last time:
5 targets: Each cannon attacks 1 structure each.4 targets: 3 cannons attack 1 target each, the last two attack the remaining target.3 targets: 2 pairs of cannons attack 1 target each, the remaining cannon attacks its own.2 targets: 3 cannons attack one structure while 2 attack the other.1 target: All 5 cannons focus on the target.
Granted, this may be a bit code-heavy, but it's something I thought makes sense. In addition, the starfish's supply cost should be lowered, as well (to what, I don't know - I'm open to suggestions).
Currently is there actually a target cap for the Adjudicator?
Yes there is, though i can't remember what it is. But in my experience adjudicators work better in numbers just like Orgrovs. The difference is while 20 Ogrovs are pretty effective against an Orky, 20 adjudicators still need some help. BUT 20 adjudicators work wonders on stationary targets, and are much much more effective against late game defensive clusters than the Orky is. I use adjudicators to clear planets of structures after I've forced enemy fleets to retreat. I follow with my fleet, leaving some adjudicators and purge vessels to clear the planet so I don't get hung up. Orkies aren't exactly efficient using this type of strategy, where as both adjudicators and Orgrovs are. Adjudicators dont have the Orky busting power of Orgrovs, but they are still quite effective at attacking other Starbases. You can send your Orgrovs or Adjudicators to rush a fully upped Orky with your fleet and they'll be great assistance, especially since in all likelihood with all the available targets, the Orky will only be attacking one of them at a time, and will waste precious time and firepower maneuvering around the rest of the fleet. Adjudicators are fine IMO, their damage is just spread out yes, but you can easily make up for their shortcomings by getting more of them (just like orgrovs), where as you cant do that with an Orky.
The problem is, Adjudicators are 50% more expensive than Ogrovs but actually pack less punch individually than an Ogrov. If you want to clear a tight defensive network including repair bays and lots of structures, then the starfish has a purpose, but this sort of defensive perimeter is quite rare to begin with and it's clearly one of the least effective units otherwise.
The starfish also suffers from being quite weak and easy to pick off with fighters. Given its immense cost and low effectiveness, this is not deserved. I honestly find one for one the Ogrov is actually the better unit 95% of the time despite costing significantly less. The Adjudicator needs help, because right now it just doesn't work. If you have the cash to bring out 8 or 9 (we're talking about 200 command worth of specialized units here!) they don't pack enough punch. If you're going to bring out that many units, why not just go with bombers?
Darvin, you are making the argument I made here on this very same thread a few months ago. You would have to scroll back quite a few pages, but I said that Ogrovs and Adjudicators are NOT supplied correctly, i.e. they cost way too much supply for what they do.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want them made OP (too cheap). But I want a reason to build them over bombers. I went down the list comparing them to bombers, and I almost never see a reason to invest in these incredibly high-cost, incredibly specialized units when you can get bombers which are not only cheaper, but they can damage something besides structures. About the only thing I found in favor of Adjudicators/Ogrovs over bombers is that bombers take antimatter to build (if they don't come from a capship).
I think both units need a supply reduction, Adjudicators maybe even more so.
BOOM!
The one thing I've found odd about Orgovs and Adjudicators is that they have the same armour type as bombers, which means both kinds of structure busters are countered by by fighters, making a mockery of the counter system. If your opponent is fielding fighters to protect his SB, it means you are stuck for a clever approach, and are forced to brute force your way through the defences. it doesn't make sense. An armour change for Orgovs and Adjudicators perhaps?
Actually, this seems perfectly fine and normal to me, unless someone can explain why it isn't.
@ Volt: The reason you don't see more than 5 targets on my list is because that is the targeting cap. The starfish cannot target more than 5 structures at any time.
@Electron: An armor change might be a good idea - I'm not sure what would be a good armor type, but Medium or Heavy sound like attractive choices.Wait, Heavy? ...hmmmm...
@ Kharma: Adjudicators DEFINITELY need a supply reduction - they cost almost as much as Aerias supply-wise but can't do their job anywhere REMOTELY as effectively as their carrier brethren. Maybe dropping the supply to about 9 or 8 would be a suitable adjustment?
Ogrovs are fine; those things hit viciously hard and if you bring 4 or 5 you can take down a starbase shockingly quickly. Maybe a tad fragile, but in terms of damage for cost they are already exceptional. It's the Adjudicator, a unit that hits much softer for 50% more cost and is only slightly harder to kill that's the problem. Changing these units to be less weak to fighters would be a useful change. Presently with Vasari starbases simply able to move into range and Advent starbases with meteor control they aren't even hard counters to begin with. Heck, a TEC player with targeting uplink can give their starbase enough range to attack Ogrovs and Starfish anyways...
They do hit visciously hard, I never disputed that. What I'm asking is, considering their supply cost, do you find yourself buying them instead of carriers? List every pro and con you can think of, ogrovs vs. carriers. (Range? Carriers have more. Tier level? Carriers are less Tier. Specialization? Carriers attack more targets. Etc.) I was able to come up with one advantage ogrovs have over carriers - they don't depend on antimatter.
Yes, they hit hard. What I'm saying is, they aren't supplied correctly. I don't think there is currently a reason to buy them over carriers. If there is, tell me that reason.
I think cheapening them somewhat would make it so it wouldn't matter so much if you lost a few to fighters.
I actually don't mind the burden of "pain in the ass" being on the assaulter of the starbase. We all wanted tough starbases. Again, I just wonder what the reason is to pick ogrovs or adjudici (lol, what's the plural on that?) over bombers. I don't want these things cheap as dirt, mind you. But they should be cheaper than carriers, since they just do one thing and one thing only - take out structures. There has to be a reason to buy them over carriers, otherwise there is no reason for them to be in the game.
You are right, though. Adjudici have it worse than ogrovs.
The plural of Adjudicator is adjudicators. The question is, what is the plural of Prius? My friends and I have decided on Prii.
At any rate, I believe that Agent has a point. There actually isn't muc of a reason to get them since they do do the same thing as bombers (less effectively) and are countered by the same units. So here I believe should be the priority:
1. Adjudicators
2. Orgovs
3. Orky
It is extremely stupid that bombers and assualt cruisers are both countered by fighters. This means that having an alternate counter to stuctures is entirely redundant.
For example, if you spam bombers to kill enemy structures, the enemy must spam fighters to counter you. However, you really want or need to kill his structures for whatever reason. However, you cant rely on assualt cruisers cos the enemy has already mass produced the counter.
Whats the point of having two counters to structures if they are both vulnerable to the same units?
Like Electron said, it is a MOCKERY of the counter system. The enemy does not need to adapt to what you are doing, he just needs to spam fighters.. Where is the tactics or strategy in that? There is none.
If assualt cruisers had say heavy armour the enemy would then think to themselves "crap I can no longer rely on my fighters to protect my structures I need something else now. I must ADAPT to what he is now doing."
I don't really know what to put them as though... I don't want them as medium since they will be slaughtered by LRF's. I don't want them as heavy because then they are countered by bombers and the problem hasn't been solved.
What they need is a reason to get them. Let's look at what options we have:
Well, 1 and 2 are out because they are plenty durable/powerful (minus the adjudicator, but that's a different issue). 3 could be interesting. 4 could be helpful. 5 is out for the reason above.
So really, I can only see a solution as being either an ability or a cost reduction. Normally I'd have some ability idea, but right now, I'm kinda blank.. Maybe because I'm paying more attention to the Colts than my computer...
@Volt- Bombers use anti-veryheavy attacks; LF use anti-heavy.
Thus, switching the Ogrov+Starfish to Heavy armor would actually be a good idea. They wouldn't get slaughtered by bombers (not very fast anyway), and they create a "web" of counters.
Since LF now counter assault cruisers, LRF must be used to protect the assault cruisers; HC or fighters must be used to overwhealm the LRF, so the assault cruiser-fielder must now field flaks/carriers w/ bombers.
It pretty much goes in a circle.
Well, I know that it doesn't do it directly as it is anti-vh, but still... At any rate, I'm not really one way or another on this issue. I don't use them much. Not that I don't think they are good, its just that I don't.
Btw, its about time you got a profile picture.
This is is not very important because the halcyon will destroy Ogrov's with its fighters anyway so this isn't much of an advantage.
Good point. Like you said, this opens up more tactical options for defense and offense.
The point is a Halcyon can protect the starbase from your bombers while the fighters whittle them away. The Halcyon provides no such protection against the Ogrovs. Yes, you can still try to kill the Ogrovs, but the starbase is taking a pounding the whole time. That is significant.
Especially if you have fighters/flaks of your own to cover them, it's entirely possible that a force of 5 or 6 Ogrovs could down a starbase before the enemy can kill them with fighters. A similar force of bombers, 10-12, wouldn't take out a starbase in a reasonable amount of time at all and would likely be shredded up by fighters before they got the job done, Halcyon or no Halcyon.
In my view, that still doesn't change the fact that it makes no sense in the counter system. The defender should need to respond by using different units in response to the new threat of assualt cruisers. The fact that he needs to respond to the new threat of enemy flak has got nothing to do with assualt cruiser balance.
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