Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
BUGS
Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:
- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously
- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously
- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots
- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.
- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.
- Random Map Bugs:
- Single Phase lane starts
- No connected Asteroids
- Overlapping Gravity Wells
- Backwards Dunov Icon
- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)
- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock
- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul
- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.
- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING
- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).
CAPITAL SHIPS
This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.
Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)
Increase hp/shields/armor?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay-
Increase DPS?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon CallenExile Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Onigiri
Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Hrabandur Onigiri
Re-work Animosity?
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Hrabandur Onigiri
No Change needed- CoBBQ
Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)
Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- CallenExile MindsEye
No Change needed-
Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)
Buff Scramble Bombers?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Onigiri
Buff Replicate Forces?
Yay- Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
Increase AM regen?
Yay- Darvin3 Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- CallenExile Mindseye Onigiri
Increase maximum AM?
Yay- CallenExile Darvin3 Hrabandur Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon Onigiri
Increase Dunov EMP range?
Yay- CallenExile Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
Yay- Mindseye CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Deceiver_0
Nay- Ryat Volt_Cruelerz Warlord Mike Swordsalmon Onigiri
Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon
Buff Phase out hull?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- Ryat Onigiri
No Change Needed-
DELIVERANCE ENGINE
Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)
Buff Deliverance engine-
Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Kitkun Greyfox2 anteachtaire Mow Mow Warlord Mike Hrabandur Arthanis
Nay- Howdidudothat
No buff needed- Qu4r Darvin3 CallenExile
EMPIRE TREE
As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?
Adjust Empire Tree-
Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 SwordSalmon JSW_Ballz Mindseye Agent of Kharma Ryat 52500 Mow Mow Fuzzy Logic EadTaes Warlord Mike Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile
FIGHTERS
Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions
Buff Fighters-
Increase armor/hp?
Yay- Mindseye Mow Mow Greyfox2 Qu4r Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Ryat Top Vasari Warlord Mike EadTaes Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma CallenExile CrazyElectron
MAPS
Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?
Magnetic Clouds-
Allow starbase deployment?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Hrabandur Juletron Howdidudothat Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r CrazyElectron
Nay- Ryat CallenExile EadTaes DesConnor -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician
Ice/Volcanic planets-
Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Ryat Darvin3 Juletron Mindseye Mow Mow EadTaes JSW_Ballz Howdidudothat Warlord Mike Kitkun Ovi_187 -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CrazyElectron
Nay- CallenExile DesConnor DirtySanchezz Hrabandur Agent of Kharma Qu4r
No Changes needed-
ORKULUS STARBASE
This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.
Nerf Orkulus-
Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)
Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur Howdidudothat Top Vasari Swordsalmon Ryat anteachtaire LordMechanoid JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike Agent of Kharma DesConnor DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Qu4r CallenExile
Other-
SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")
Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Top Vasari Cykur LordMechanoid Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CallenExile CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- JSW_Ballz DesConnor Qu4r
SCOUT FRIGATES
A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.
Nerf Scouts-
Decrease hp/shields?
Yay-
Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur Arthanis
Decrease DPS?
Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Cykur
Increase Cost/supply?
Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon
Nay- DirtySanchezz Arthanis
No Nerf Needed- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma Sivcorp 52500 JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron
Balance Scouts-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Mow Mow Swordsalmon Darvin3 Ryat Greyfox2 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur Top Vasari LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile
Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?
Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat Greyfox2 Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Wingflier Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat CallenExile 52500 LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician JSW_Ballz Cykur Greyfox2 Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?
Yay- Mow Mow Swordsalmon Howdidudothat Ryat Chaotic Magician 52500 JSW_Ballz Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3 CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2 LordMechanoid Kitkun
Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid
No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma EadTaes DesConnor
RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS
While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?
Buff Skirmishers-
Increase DPS? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes DesConnor Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- LordMechanoid
Decrease Supply cost?
Yay- Raging Amish LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Resource cost?
Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike
Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat DirtySanchezz Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid lbgsloan Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r Arthanis
Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp Runesia DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
I wouldnt be opposed to a buff to debris vortex to help the Orky survive an encounter with a massive fleet. Its the only Starbase tha when faced with large late game fleets, just cant dish out punishment like the other two.
I have a little problem with Orky's DPS. On the tooltip it seems very nice, but in the fight I have a feeling that it's severely lackluster. I dunno, a well developed orky takes longer to wipe lums than an argonev. One has to resort to double banking to do serious damage (ha, you don't know what that is, do you?)
Yeah... It won't happen though I would laugh so hard if it did. As for what N3 said...
ROFL! I already find myself monologuing whenever I bring out an orky and my enemies die from it. Adding this would just make me do it even more. Seriously, every time I see an enemy fleet jump to a planet with an Orky, I immediately say, "Orky does not like visitors. " This would amplify that!
At any rate though I do get the ability sometimes. After plowing through an enemy fleet, you can regenerate your health at insane rates. Its something like 20/40 hull per debris and each ship leaves ~5-6 debris floating around... You do the math...
And it would certainly give the phrase "I HUNGER!" new meaning.
The name of the DV Orky that I place around my "Homeworld Star?" Vasarus' Maw.
So.. What? Change one of them to composite damage?
I'm new so alot of this stuff isn't something I could have a valid opinion of yet, but couple things..
the static turrets are worthless as they are. They need to be much cheaper, or have a longer range or something. They seem totally pointless. fair enough if you dont want static defence so cheap that the defender has a bigger advantage than currently, but by god, its like shooting a hand gun at space ships. with no legs.
and the other thing would be all the econ techs. i understand you guys playing for longer have a better understanding of the cost/payout over time of the techs, but i'v not seen many people buy them ever in games.
also, why are skirmishers more supply than assailants?
Not worthless, but pretty close. If you check some of the previous pages, I've been pressuring for turrets and hangers to go to vote because they offer pretty poor performance for their cost.
There are a couple of economic techs (resource focus comes to mind) that could use help, but in general the lower-level eco techs are worth your time. People won't get them if they're face-to-face with an enemy, but give them room to spread their feet and they'll grab plenty of those low-level techs.
Skirmishers are supposed to be a "heavier" unit than assailants, but they just come across as overpriced because they really aren't that much better than assailants in any meaningful way. They need reintegration to be worth their excessive price.
As you may have noticed, we already put it up to a vote (one of the first issues in this thread) and agreed a damage buff was in order. The devs apparently agreed because the next patch is slated to do just that, offering a fair boost to skirmisher damage. They'll still be the weakest light frigate overall, but at least not by such a massive margin.
QQ! Change pulse guns to composite, increase disintegrator DPS by half NAO!
edit: found it, ignore me
he found it.
ignoring him.
Composite though... Fair bit more to Medium, double to Light, bit less to Cap. Works for me.
I support the Composite Damage type for Pulse Guns, if they aren't already. If they are, never mind.
I'm all for the 1.5x Disintegrator DPS, though. Unless it gets upgraded by SOMETHING (see my Pulse Beam argument from earlier), it's a bit "meh"-ish for its anti-structure role as it stands.
Not sure what to do with the Phase Missile Batteries, though.
Its PMB's are IMO not too bad. A few volleys from the thing and darn near anything dies. Maybe a 10%-20% damage boost, but nothing huge. Other than that, I agree that Disins should be buffed by 50% and PG's should be composite so that you can take out illuminators more effectively.
w00t! Anti-Illum Orkys!!!
Well, according to a topic somewhere else (forget which one), the PGs of the Orky are Anti-Heavy (Good only against some cruisers), the Disintegrators are anti-modular (the anti-structure damage), and PMBS are Capital-Ship Damage (fairly decent all around, though there are areas where it sucks).
So, again, I vote for PGs being Composite damage. Again, glad I'm not the only one who's imagining things with my prized Orkies.
the problem inherient with a post like this is less then 1% of the player base visits forums on a regular basis and you expect your results to adequetly show what the playerbase wants? wake up.
And its our fault that the other 99% doesnt want to join the fourms and particpate?There is nothing wrong with this topic. Now go troll someplace else.
I believe Carbon's post is the textbook definition of "OWNED!"
EDIT: Gah...forums made me double-post...ignore, please...
And if i refuse? jk.
Anyway, if the other 99% don't care enough to be here, why should any of us really care? The true fans will find a way to access the forums semi-regularly...and this post is months old. Most of them have had at least the opportunity to contribute. Now granted, there are relatively few people who have responded to this, but as a whole, i think this an accurate assessment of what the community wants. Enough have posted, for both sides, and have managed to offer up valid points. In the end, this is mostly a wish list, and its purpose was just to give ironclada few ideas or point out flaws that they may have missed. I'd give karma for this thread, but i believe i already did.
-Exile
We're here to suggest improvements to the game. Anyone can do it, and if there are any among that 99% who aren't on the forums, then they can come on the forums and post here. Spark up some debates, recommend improvements or fixes, point out bugs, whatever. Just because they choose not to do so, doesn't mean there aren't good ideas on here. I think this topic does accurately show what the playerbase wants, at least the players that care. Everyone has their own opinions on here and for every idea that gets tossed around people posting on this site have points and counter-points to them, whether discussed or not. Some topics end up being debated, but other are much more clear as you can see above. Its all about statistics. If you have a topic that has 55% yays and 45% nays, then you can assume the community who gives a damn is somewhat divide on the issue. If its 90% yays and 10% nays, then that topic needs a closer look. Ever heard of focus groups? Thats pretty much what this is. A small portion of diverse views that can somewhat accurately represent the whole. And for those that it doesn't represent, they don't really care anyway now do they?
I think this orky talk about it doin to little damage is a non issue.Its damage is divided by 4 banks yes but each bank fires at 4 targets.The orky is really well balanced for vas imo.You want a large illum fleet killin orky then get deflector shields and have some overseers there.If he wants to get past your deflectors he will have to spilit up and fire from different sides effectively tripling your firepower.Mabye get some subs problems solved.Have trouble with sc killin your orkies?Get hanger bays with uber powerful freeze sc for minutes at a time ability.Whats the big deal?They have it all covered.
For those that keep talkin bout how vas dont have seige ship except orky and dis sucks...it doesnt.It works more like the starfish then orgrov but thats fine.It takes out large number of structures at one time and plenty fast.By the way vas dont really even need a anti mod ship.Phase missiles are all they need.50-60 kanracks with phase are prolly as good as 10 orgrovs.Same thing with bombers.Advent have nothing but bombers.Starfish sucks hard for sb.
Ok Mindseye, I don't know what gripes you have with the orky - you must be collecting data from the receiving end of the Orky's guns to think the damage is fine (as in: the less I take, the more balanced it is), but truth is that all the advantages the orky has above other SBs is the ability to move. Period.
It does not have any mass killing abilities, it does not have any fleet-boosting abilities (phase stabilizer, right! Ever saw THAT in a serious game?) and FYI frontal shields are sadly lacking and are retardedly expensive for the tier they are at. Build an orky and check it for yourself. Also, don't bring subs, overseers and Heavens know what into the equation cause the enemy can also bring demo bots, nanites, detonate antimatter, designate target and all those fancy shit that makes the Orky a damage eater with a relatively small belly.
Now as I said in my starbase banks thread, I've done some Maths (I'm a Maths student that's just passed an exam, so that's what I do) and here are the results:
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3018/starbasecharts.jpg
I can mail you the excel spreadsheet if you wanna check the numbers. If you wanna see the specific numbers for each weapon type on each starbase, see:http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7629/spreadsheetfull.jpg
The conclusions are:- Orky deals only slightly more damage to structures unless completely stuffed with upgrades.- Orky sucks against LRFs unless completely stuffed with upgrades (most people ride HC/bomber fleets by then).- Orky shines its balls on caps and heavy cruisers and only manages to catch the other two when absolutely maxed out.- Orky deals huge damage to fighters and bombers (!!! )- Orky deals good damage to heavy armor type - IF the enemy really lets the orkulus catch his Carriers (yeah, rite).
Now couple that with:- Orky sucks as a non-battlestation. Colony pods suck. Single trade upgrade. No culture. No fleet boosters. It just flies and shoots.- most importantly has zero mass effects. Transcencia has meteors and disorient, which rock ass. Argonev has boons, production capability and the red button. Orky has... Phase gate! Yay. Count the times you've seen this in a game.
The only way the Orkulus can really shine as what it is, a battlestation, is when it fires all its banks... which the enemy will not allow (wanna come here between my ships to fire all your guns? Okay, but you're out of repair station range and no longer covering whatever it was you were covering. My handful of <whatever> will take care of those, thanks).
So that's it. Read it as you will, but I think something really sucks here (and I pointed it out on this pic).
Oh and now I know why making siege cruisers "heavy armored" would be a bad idea - Orky's pulse guns are anti-heavy .
My suggested fix would be - make Pulse beam upgrades increase Disintegrator damage as well. It would solve a heap of issues:1. Orky is currently doing only a little more damage to the enemy SB than the enemy SB is doing to it. This means that Orky either needs extensive overseer support and a lot of time or has to be upgraded into insanity, which in turn is hard to do when the enemy upgrades his own starbase, like... almost twice as fast? This would give the Orky the edge it needs (so that you do not have to make a generally-useless 3 offense 4 defense starbase just to take out his 2 off 3 def one that keeps pumping him credits/culture/whatever).2. Pulse beam upgrades are useless. This would make them worthwhile.3. It would fix, to some extent, the very low anti-heavy-cruiser and anti-capital damage the orky has.
I will agree with minds. Illums suck against an orkulus thats even somewhat upgraded unless you have an overwhelming fleet with support(destra work much better at this cause illums don't use sidebeams against SBs and destra are tougher to kill and damage is more focused). You are pretty much forced to use bombers to kill them because engaging in them directly will result in an unacceptable amount of fleet loss for the value you get unless the orky is not upgraded and you have an overwhelming fleet. The orky does not get AEs like the other 2. However the orkulus is tough as nails to kill(with frontal shields and debris vortex) and it can move. It is by no means underpowered and is somewhat OP and needs a nerf in build times in enemy wells. The anti structure damage is similar to a starfish in that it deals to multiple targets as minds mentioned. However unlike the starfish it is tough to kill and damages other things too. All this has been discussed already several pages ago in this thread. Increasing its damage would be a mistake.
[_]-Greyfox
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