Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
BUGS
Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:
- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously
- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously
- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots
- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.
- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.
- Random Map Bugs:
- Single Phase lane starts
- No connected Asteroids
- Overlapping Gravity Wells
- Backwards Dunov Icon
- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)
- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock
- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul
- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.
- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING
- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).
CAPITAL SHIPS
This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.
Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)
Increase hp/shields/armor?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay-
Increase DPS?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon CallenExile Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Onigiri
Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Hrabandur Onigiri
Re-work Animosity?
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Hrabandur Onigiri
No Change needed- CoBBQ
Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)
Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- CallenExile MindsEye
No Change needed-
Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)
Buff Scramble Bombers?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Onigiri
Buff Replicate Forces?
Yay- Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
Increase AM regen?
Yay- Darvin3 Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- CallenExile Mindseye Onigiri
Increase maximum AM?
Yay- CallenExile Darvin3 Hrabandur Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon Onigiri
Increase Dunov EMP range?
Yay- CallenExile Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
Yay- Mindseye CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Deceiver_0
Nay- Ryat Volt_Cruelerz Warlord Mike Swordsalmon Onigiri
Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon
Buff Phase out hull?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- Ryat Onigiri
No Change Needed-
DELIVERANCE ENGINE
Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)
Buff Deliverance engine-
Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Kitkun Greyfox2 anteachtaire Mow Mow Warlord Mike Hrabandur Arthanis
Nay- Howdidudothat
No buff needed- Qu4r Darvin3 CallenExile
EMPIRE TREE
As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?
Adjust Empire Tree-
Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 SwordSalmon JSW_Ballz Mindseye Agent of Kharma Ryat 52500 Mow Mow Fuzzy Logic EadTaes Warlord Mike Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile
FIGHTERS
Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions
Buff Fighters-
Increase armor/hp?
Yay- Mindseye Mow Mow Greyfox2 Qu4r Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Ryat Top Vasari Warlord Mike EadTaes Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma CallenExile CrazyElectron
MAPS
Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?
Magnetic Clouds-
Allow starbase deployment?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Hrabandur Juletron Howdidudothat Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r CrazyElectron
Nay- Ryat CallenExile EadTaes DesConnor -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician
Ice/Volcanic planets-
Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Ryat Darvin3 Juletron Mindseye Mow Mow EadTaes JSW_Ballz Howdidudothat Warlord Mike Kitkun Ovi_187 -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CrazyElectron
Nay- CallenExile DesConnor DirtySanchezz Hrabandur Agent of Kharma Qu4r
No Changes needed-
ORKULUS STARBASE
This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.
Nerf Orkulus-
Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)
Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur Howdidudothat Top Vasari Swordsalmon Ryat anteachtaire LordMechanoid JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike Agent of Kharma DesConnor DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Qu4r CallenExile
Other-
SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")
Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Top Vasari Cykur LordMechanoid Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CallenExile CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- JSW_Ballz DesConnor Qu4r
SCOUT FRIGATES
A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.
Nerf Scouts-
Decrease hp/shields?
Yay-
Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur Arthanis
Decrease DPS?
Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Cykur
Increase Cost/supply?
Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon
Nay- DirtySanchezz Arthanis
No Nerf Needed- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma Sivcorp 52500 JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron
Balance Scouts-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Mow Mow Swordsalmon Darvin3 Ryat Greyfox2 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur Top Vasari LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile
Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?
Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat Greyfox2 Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Wingflier Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat CallenExile 52500 LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician JSW_Ballz Cykur Greyfox2 Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?
Yay- Mow Mow Swordsalmon Howdidudothat Ryat Chaotic Magician 52500 JSW_Ballz Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3 CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2 LordMechanoid Kitkun
Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid
No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma EadTaes DesConnor
RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS
While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?
Buff Skirmishers-
Increase DPS? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes DesConnor Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- LordMechanoid
Decrease Supply cost?
Yay- Raging Amish LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Resource cost?
Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike
Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat DirtySanchezz Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid lbgsloan Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r Arthanis
Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp Runesia DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
I'm not sure this is a bug or not. But whenever I tell my fleet to make a phase jump as a group some of my ships dont start to jump unti,l after all the others have left the gravity well.
the only thing that should be changed with the skirm. is the autocast; with that fixed those other changes may very well not be needed. When I modded the ability to cut in earlier it seemed that it helped out the balance tremendously.
you can travel, you just need to use the z-axis function. Most ppl. don't even know about it.
for the skirmisher
yay
nay
I have mine set up, and no. it still didnt work.
Yes to all the skirmisher changes- I already had that, a couple of lines before the turret comments?
On turrets, I wouldn't like to encourage their use in MP as they are. If they were at most half the cost, then they might have a limited role to play in the very early game- against the problematic scout/light frigate rush. However, isn't this what T1 defence should be for? It's okay for them to be overwhelmed later, as long as they perform their function when they should. As there are a few stages of the tech tree devoted to them, it's annoying for them to be so overpriced- they can't move at all, even in space. Phase engine costs should be a large % of the cost of ships.
Also, like other changes, if units are not being used, it doesn't harm the game to drop the cost. The very early rush is a deterrent to players who might otherwise play online. I know that currently new players don't get what they expect from their starting fixed defences- but if experience with other RTS games has led them to believe that a higher level of early defence is what they should get, then I would say that is justified, and that it is the idiosyncrasy of the game that has let them down.
Skirms
y
n
Skirms:
DPS: Yay
Supply: Nay
Resources: Nay
Adjust Reintegration: Yay
Also I think you should have a vote in there to buff reintegration, though activating it early would help, it still seems pretty weak to me in most situations.
then idk, I guess it just doesn't like you, bummers.
Skirmisher:
DPS Increase: Yay
Supply Decrease: Nay
Resource Decrease: Nay
Reintegration AI: Yay
Skirmisher
Yay for DPS increase and better reintegration AI. Nay for the rest.
Siege frigates are still useless. If they were buffed to be as good as they were in patch v1.02 (the uber SF of doom) they would be much better but since people use scouts so much, their strength may not be an issue. I might be completely and totally wrong, but any feedback on this idea?
Siege frigates are used more commonly for cleanup now. As I said before, they're the same old unit. They still die much too quickly to be used in a real combat situation, but they are more effective as a clean-up squad due to their higher damage.
So people actually use SFs now. Interesting. I haven't seen this yet, but I suspect that I might.
I found another bug: Vasari SB with trade ports forget its commands (like move orders) when trade ships dock to SB.
And if to improve reintegration AI on skirmishers also improve it on skurwases because its usless on auto.
skirmishers
ya for damage increase
na for cost decrease
na for supply decrease
ya for Reintergation ability
As for balancing skirmishers, could you add an option for "make other adjustments so as to balance skirmishers 'by race,' not 'by unit'?"
As for siege frigs, I do not support any more buffs to this unit. I don't know why a minimum number of pro-ish types insist on ruining the game for the majority of players. Does this make good business sense, or any other type of sense?
Skirmishers -
Yeh for for DPS increase
Yeh for Reintergation trigger early (and for HC too!)
I'd also like to see a DPS increase in Vas Scouts....
I'm sure the topic of scouts will come up.
I haven't seen this unit used online yet, so I thought that it may have been still useless. Apparently is isn't so my concern was addressed.
To balance skirms by race, the Vasari should get superior flak or something. This would mean that Vasari destroy enemy SC faster, but destroy the carriers themselves more slowly.
Hi JuleTron, my comment wasn't targetted at you specifically, just the crowd in general who want a return to uber siege frigs of doom. My point has always been - sure, they will be happy if that happens, but what about everyone else? It doesn't make much sense to please a small crowd while driving everyone else away from the game.
As to whether the unit is useless or not, it depends on who you ask, and what you are looking for. People who want uber siege frigs of doom will consider the unit useless until it returns to back that state. Others (like me) find it useful even weaker than it was before it was just buffed. "How can that be?" you ask. Because we view the role of the siege frig as a unit which comes into a grav well AFTER ENEMIES HAVE BEEN DESTROYED, and bombs the planet down. The other side views it as an attacking unit, able to charge into a grav well with enemy ships all around, and withstand a pounding while it bombs the planet into oblivion.
A difference in philosophy, if you will, but I guess its a topic for another thread.
So the Skirmisher might need buffing. But why, and does it solve a problem? IMO, the new problem is: Advent scout & Disciple rushing (no labs required). And Illums remaining overpowered.
In 1.18, all of the LFs got buffed (by about 5.8%). But Advent Disciples cost much less, in both fleet & $'s (4 fleet), than the Vasari Skirmisher (7). So the Disciple recieved a proportionally much bigger buff (almost twice as much)!
I'm not convinced that buffing Skirmisher's DPS will solve anything. Fixing Reintergration might help the HC vs Illum issues, but it won't help repelling an early game scout rush. I would favor a command decrease, but that is such a major change that I hesitate to recommend it.
So yeah, the Skirmisher should have been buffed on par with other LFs. But I doubt that it is the solution to anything!
While the illuminators remain bugged I refuse to take Advent- I'm surprised that the Disciples were already only 4 supply, thanks Sage. It seems low enough for a light frigate, though I'd reduce the Cobalt to 4 and the Skirmisher to 6- if not 5. Also, isn't it very odd to have one light frigate nearly twice the supply of another..? Drone hosts are only 50% more supply with their extra squadron.
A buff to turrets would help stop the very early T1 rush, as it is the reason the rush can't be stopped is because turrets aren't properly priced, so they aren't playing their role. The lack of range wouldn't be as important if you could afford twice as many, and it would hardly affect the game much beyond the early stages.
Correct me if i am wrong but Kortul wave guns dont play any sound when firing. Maybe it is just me or maybe it is a bug, but i dont hear any sound when Kortul fires its waves.
In regular Sins wave sound on kortul works, but not on Entrenchment.
Yes to increasing the damage
No to decreasing the cost
No to decreasing the supply
Yes for improving the AI's Reintigration casting
well i would like to comment on ilum causing mystery dmg between shot based on a calculator dmg of my own which is very different from any dps chart most ppl using.
basically, ilum's beam is classified as long range weapon that equals 5x the numeric dmg listed on the infocard on each shot.and towers is classified as equals 6x the numeric dmg on the infocard.my guess for the mysterious dmg on ilums is that there's a bug/mechanics failure in ilum's beam where it was considered the same as Advent's Beam Platform's beam thus explains the ghostly extra dmg for x5 being shot as x6
for skirms, i just wanna improve AI's timing for Reintegration it should start that damned Reintegration as soon skirms hull entered 65%
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
