Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
BUGS
Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:
- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously
- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously
- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots
- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.
- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.
- Random Map Bugs:
- Single Phase lane starts
- No connected Asteroids
- Overlapping Gravity Wells
- Backwards Dunov Icon
- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)
- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock
- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul
- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.
- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING
- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).
CAPITAL SHIPS
This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.
Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)
Increase hp/shields/armor?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay-
Increase DPS?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon CallenExile Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Onigiri
Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Hrabandur Onigiri
Re-work Animosity?
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Hrabandur Onigiri
No Change needed- CoBBQ
Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)
Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- CallenExile MindsEye
No Change needed-
Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)
Buff Scramble Bombers?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Onigiri
Buff Replicate Forces?
Yay- Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
Increase AM regen?
Yay- Darvin3 Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- CallenExile Mindseye Onigiri
Increase maximum AM?
Yay- CallenExile Darvin3 Hrabandur Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon Onigiri
Increase Dunov EMP range?
Yay- CallenExile Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
Yay- Mindseye CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Deceiver_0
Nay- Ryat Volt_Cruelerz Warlord Mike Swordsalmon Onigiri
Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon
Buff Phase out hull?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- Ryat Onigiri
No Change Needed-
DELIVERANCE ENGINE
Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)
Buff Deliverance engine-
Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Kitkun Greyfox2 anteachtaire Mow Mow Warlord Mike Hrabandur Arthanis
Nay- Howdidudothat
No buff needed- Qu4r Darvin3 CallenExile
EMPIRE TREE
As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?
Adjust Empire Tree-
Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 SwordSalmon JSW_Ballz Mindseye Agent of Kharma Ryat 52500 Mow Mow Fuzzy Logic EadTaes Warlord Mike Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile
FIGHTERS
Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions
Buff Fighters-
Increase armor/hp?
Yay- Mindseye Mow Mow Greyfox2 Qu4r Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Ryat Top Vasari Warlord Mike EadTaes Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma CallenExile CrazyElectron
MAPS
Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?
Magnetic Clouds-
Allow starbase deployment?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Hrabandur Juletron Howdidudothat Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r CrazyElectron
Nay- Ryat CallenExile EadTaes DesConnor -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician
Ice/Volcanic planets-
Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Ryat Darvin3 Juletron Mindseye Mow Mow EadTaes JSW_Ballz Howdidudothat Warlord Mike Kitkun Ovi_187 -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CrazyElectron
Nay- CallenExile DesConnor DirtySanchezz Hrabandur Agent of Kharma Qu4r
No Changes needed-
ORKULUS STARBASE
This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.
Nerf Orkulus-
Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)
Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur Howdidudothat Top Vasari Swordsalmon Ryat anteachtaire LordMechanoid JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike Agent of Kharma DesConnor DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Qu4r CallenExile
Other-
SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")
Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Top Vasari Cykur LordMechanoid Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CallenExile CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- JSW_Ballz DesConnor Qu4r
SCOUT FRIGATES
A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.
Nerf Scouts-
Decrease hp/shields?
Yay-
Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur Arthanis
Decrease DPS?
Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Cykur
Increase Cost/supply?
Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon
Nay- DirtySanchezz Arthanis
No Nerf Needed- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma Sivcorp 52500 JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron
Balance Scouts-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Mow Mow Swordsalmon Darvin3 Ryat Greyfox2 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur Top Vasari LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile
Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?
Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat Greyfox2 Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Wingflier Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat CallenExile 52500 LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician JSW_Ballz Cykur Greyfox2 Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?
Yay- Mow Mow Swordsalmon Howdidudothat Ryat Chaotic Magician 52500 JSW_Ballz Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3 CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2 LordMechanoid Kitkun
Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid
No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma EadTaes DesConnor
RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS
While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?
Buff Skirmishers-
Increase DPS? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes DesConnor Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- LordMechanoid
Decrease Supply cost?
Yay- Raging Amish LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Resource cost?
Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike
Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat DirtySanchezz Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid lbgsloan Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r Arthanis
Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp Runesia DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
DesConnor, I dont think you understand how the mitigation increase would work. Early level caps would still have similar mitigation to what they have now, but it would increase faster as they increase in level. So advent caps (dont understand why your singling them out either, the mitigation bonus they get is at the end of their shield research tree at tier 7, so before that point theyre the same as all other caps) at low levels still have similar max mitigation to what they would now within a few percentages. They'd just be gaining approximately 1 percent more than they would per level. So they higher level they get, the more bonus to mitigation max they get, making it scale to late game fleets better.
I have thought of something tho- I cant remember which race it is, but doesnt one of them get a bonus to max mitigation by their culture? I wanna say its advent but I cant remember. Anyone know?
It is advent...
This will help. But the thing is though, masses of illums melt my and other people's capships well before the capships hit high level. I don't want to have to wait until level 9 to have a cap that might be able to accompany the fleet in battle for some length of time before dying or running away. We really need a solution that will help caps no matter what level they are. We need a solution that will allow caps to do their job. Staying out of battles ain't doing their job.
That is why I was arguing for reseachables. They are the only thing I can think of that would apply to anything you create late-game.
This is why I remind you that raising the migitiation too high will lead to superstrong caps. If you raise them high enough for the TEC and Vasari to get use from (the 80-85% range) it will allow Advent to reach closer to 90%. Then you have Advent Caps that wont die. You cant just raise the migitation really any higher than it currently is. IF you do then you risk having Caps that wont die under proper support. And that leads to Fleets of only Caps. Ive seen it happen. As a Modder Ive seen what happens when you create those monsters. Not good for your balanced MP gameplay yall want.
If you want to buff caps surviablity its MUST be a combination of HP, Sheilds, and Armor!!!!! Honestly the more I think about it, Armor is the way to go with buffing caps. Adding at LEAST 3-4 points of armor would give all caps the ability to survive under fire. Hell a simple HP/Shield regen buff would help. Look at Starbases...they have a crazy ammount of regen per second. If Caps had half of that regen they be much much stronger.
Armor is an option, though I still believe that the reliability of researchables would be better than having it go up one level at a time. That would cause high level caps to be invincible and low level ones to be weak. Creating new researchables would IMO be the best long-term solution. Increasing either armor or mitigation increase per level might help some and would be the easiest fix, but I think using researchables to increase the DPS, armor, shields, and hull of capitals would be the best solution.
Researchables are a decent option with the exception of having to create new Techs, which I seriously doubt the Devs will do. Mitigation would have to be extremely specific cuz carbons right, if it gets to high Advent have two mitigation bonuses that will set them above the rest. Options are pretty limited.
Volt_Cruelerz, you can forget about new researchables in the game - that's a pipe dream. It won't happen, in a million years.
To the others, if mitigation isn't the answer because of unkillable caps, then just go back to my idea of either the diminishing returns, or a damage cap. There is nothing wrong with either idea. Both ideas solve the problem. Neither idea creates unkillable caps. Neither idea penalizes small early game fleets from killing caps.
And I don't keep highlighting chunks of my text, as above. The stupid forums keep doing it. I don't have any control over it, but it's not me, so please ignore it - thanks.
more damage dealt = more damage done (NO to damage cap). Max mitigation increase is better idea by far, but it is still not enough to make some caps as useful as carriercaps/colonycaps are.
I would be against any change to mitigation or some sort of damage cap against cap ships. The last thing I want is damn near invincible cap ships. Generally my problem keeping caps alive is early game anyways. Once they have progressed somewhat they already become somewhat difficult to kill unless you are careless with them. I wouldn't be opposed to some small stat increases but that would be about it. Could you imagine a TEC using a couple of marzas that are tougher than nails in an early rush to bomb the crap out of your hw and there being nothing you could do to kill them? I understand that you all are mostly suggesting progressive changes based on level but I could see changing mitigation or some sort of damage cap being very detrimental to balance.
[_]-Greyfox
I keep hearing this from people. It sounds like an emotional argument to me, not a rational one. If this isn't an emotional kneejerk reaction, then tell me the rational reason why you are against a damage cap. I haven't heard one yet.
But they said that mitigation increase results in unkillable caps, especially for Advent. So again, I'm not hearing any rationalism, just emotional kneejerk stuff.
I keep hearing this too, and I keep pointing out that a damage cap does not result in "damn near invincible caps." But people don't listen, they just keep spouting what they want to spout without bothering to look at the mathematics of it or examine the arguments set forth.
To prove that a damage cap does not result in "damn near invincible caps," I'll ask you to go ahead and pick a number of illuminators to cap damage at. What number do you want? 30? 40? 50? For argument's sake, let's cap damage at 50 illums. That means all damage from those 50 illums gets through to the cap unmitigated. The cap melts in no time. Is that good enough for you? Has this resulted in an "unkillable cap?"
There is a vast leeway between "unkillable caps" and "caps that melt instantly because they don't scale to the size of fleets." This isn't an either-or proposition. There is an area in between. Just because some people want to move away from the current "caps that melt instantly because they don't scale to the size of fleets" doesn't mean that we will have "unkillable caps."
If you know basic math, look at a graph of either the damage cap I proposed, or the diminishing returns idea. Math doesn't lie (if it did, we wouldn't have a game at all).
Look, fine if people don't like this idea or that. Seriously, I'm okay with that. All I ask is that people at least read and understand the arguments and mathematics, approach the whole thing rationally, quit spouting disinformation, and quit with all the knee jerk emotional crap. I mean how are we gonna balance a game if nobody approaches it rationally?
The answer your looking for Agent is a change in stats like HP,Sheilds,Armor!!!
Why do we need to add another mechanic to the game?!?!?! Even your damage cap idea is further complicating things. Sure its easy to understand you can only damage things so much. But its still another mechanic that is un needed in SINS.
If you take what we have now, you can make cap ships powerful enough to with stand moderate FF.
Even if you dont wanna tweak the max/inital HP,Sheild,Armor....look at Starbases for the answer. Give caps a larger Regen per second. Currently their regen is crap. Even out of combat.
If we use every tool already given to us we can tweak Caps to whatever is needed. Again I say look at DS, we have tweaked caps. You dont have to use the stats we use BUT it gives you an idea on what we did and how they play ingame.
I be happy to post the stats changes we did for them here if yall are interested but Im sure 75% of you will go OMG are crazy?!? B/c they are seem high compared to non modded SINS, but its why I suggest trying them out ingame.
"Caps should get butterfly wings and should eat each other"
"no, they shouldn't - it is 100% unrealistic and against balance"
"it sounds like emotional argument"
Damage cap is bad idea. If you attack something with 100 ships you expect this thing dieing faster (even if it is 1-2s faster) then it die attacked by 20 ships. It is natural, balanced and intuational aspect of every game. If you say "ships are dieing too fast to large armadas" I say: damage system limiting effectiveness of large fleets focusing fire already exist and is called "shield mitigation". There is no reason to ad something completly unrealistic and non-intuitional like "damage cap". And believe me, it is not emotional argument, even if idea of adding another unneded, unrealistic and non-intuitional mechanic is implicating strong emotions...
If we increase natural max mitigation to ~90% then Advent caps will be really hard to kill, but if we stay at ~80% level and buff non-advanet caps in terms of HP/Armor/Shields (at least more then Advent caps) then there will be no problem with balancing it.
I've brought this up in another post, but...
I would be more for nerfing the LRF's ANTIMEDIUM's Very Heavy and Capital damage to 50% (similar to LF which is ANTIHEAVY). They would still be affective at taking out a capital and structures over time (similar to LF), just not as affective as bombers or HC. I'm also more in favor of buffing Capital's ship damage modifiers to 125-150% for Very Heavy and below. It seems odd that normal LF and Cruisers get a damage modifier bonus against other certain armor types but capital ships do not. This would have positive impacts without a lot of changes to the current hull/shield/weapon points in place.
If the shield mitigation are going to be raised, there must be some sort of penalty. If you want to have battleships stay longer on the line with 90% mitigation, they must lower their speed down to at least 75% to keep them from running away when the battle is going bad. It will be bad enough if battleships or any other cap can kill twice their worth in frigates and cruisers before going down.
Any thoughts on giving Vasari caps more HP/Shields to compensate for their inferior frigs?
Vasari frigs are the problem, not their caps. And its really only the scout and the light frigate that are underpowered. Once those are corrected they will have less of a disadvantage early game (and less of a heavy reliance on the Orkulus to squeak by to mid-game), which is currently their biggest drawback.
Arthanis, fine with me if you want to bump mitigation. Then your fight is no longer with me, it is with 1) the people who say it will create unkillable caps, or 2) the people who want smaller early game fleets to be able to chase away caps bombing their homeworld.
A damage cap would neither create unkillable caps, nor penalize small early game fleets, but if you don't like the idea, I guess that's your perogative.
Fine with me -Ue_Carbon. I'd support this over what we have now. But again, you're gonna be fighting with 1) the people who say it will create unkillable caps, or 2) the people who want smaller early game fleets to be able to chase away caps bombing their homeworld.
The thing about either mitigation or HP/shields/armor is, it will penalize small early fleets who want to chase away an early cap (or pair of them) attacking the homeworld. You'll see even more early caps built than you see now, more cap rushes, etc. Now, that's perfectly fine with me - it really is. But some others have been pretty adamant that they don't want that. My ideas don't touch early game fleets or the damage they deal. My ideas do one thing and one thing only - scale the survivability of the capship to the size of the fleet.
Sounds like an interesting idea. Off the top of my head, would be totally fine by me. But again, you'll run into the very same people who worry about early game fleets not being able to chase away caps.
@Agent: Is it a pipe dream? Yes. Do I think it would be best, once again, the answer is yes.
Also, its not emotional to say your idea doesn't make sense. Damage caps cannot be justified in lore whatsoever as they simply make no sense. More guns aimed at you=more damage you receive. Its common sense, not emotion.
@Carbon/Agent: I do believe that we have the capacity to help capitals with current game mechanics. I am just wanting you guys to understand that late game, I believe there could be breaks between powerful high-level caps and super-weak low level ones. Because if you have caps scale with their level more, then you run the risk of getting slaughtered by a rush. I would not find it unusual to be rushed by capitals that would end at level 3-4. Also, in MP, you likely will not see any capitals higher level than 6 or maybe 7.
With a buff, you could improve this so that capitals might make it to 8, but anything beyond that would be an outlier. This means that within 4 levels, you have to go from decent to awesome without having either being OP or UP respectively. The only way I see this happening is if you nerf (yes I said nerf) capitals in exchange for a much higher and better improvement rate. The power of old caps versus new ones would cross at around level 3-4. In this way, you could have high powered caps at the end without disturbing the status quo at the beginning much.
I could give a flying rat's ass about lore. But if you want lore, fine. The same race that created the phase jump inhibitors also created damage inhibitors. These artifacts have been installed on all capships. They are wired in to the shield mitigation systems of the capship. Any amount of damage coming in over a certain amount gets pinched. How? The technology I cannot explain, because it is too high tech - none of the races understand it. But the principle is that lower amounts of damage (energy) are not enough to charge the device up to achieve the effect. But once a huge amount of damage starts coming in and hitting the shields and mitigation, the device charges up with that energy and activates.
There. I came up with that lore in about 10 seconds. If it doesn't suit your fancy, there is some other person out there that can construct something that will.
I think you are hung up on this dogma or whatever it is - you keep repeating it over and over. Personally I see no reason to adhere to such a rule, but if that's your fundamental idea of how the game should play out - an idea that trumps any and everything else - so be it.
That's why my idea in fact DOESN'T have caps scale with their level. It has caps scale with fleet size.
No matter how you try to twist and distort this, it won't change the truth of it. More guns will always mean more damage. A damage cap is absulutely ridiculous, would ruin the game, and put an end to the only real reason to have a massive fleet.
And as to the lore, you can say you don't care about it all you want, but the truth of it is, the majority of people playing now would not be if the game had simply shipped with "Here's 3 armies, go blow shit up" as the only explaination. The lore is a key part of this game's success.
As i've already said, Deciever's idea makes the most sence. A more expierienced crew will know their ship better, be able to adjust their shields better, and even have made adaptations most likely to improve their ship. If you don't agree with this, then you must also think that the cap ships shouldn't gain aditional damage output as they level, because that is exactly the same thing. Cap ships are by design, meant to grow more powerful, not be powerful right out of the gate. Mitigation increase as they level furthers this, and increasing this will increase their survivability late-game.
THat said, i can see where you're coming from, trying to fix the problem from a purely programming standpoint. It would fix the problem, but not in a way that is acceptable to the entire comunity, or even the majority. Mitigation increase does. It makes them survive longer, doesn't dictate how many ships you build, and is purely and simply easy to expain in the lore. Perhaps a hybrid of mitigation increase, and, i believe this was Swordsalmon's idea, though i may be wrong, an accuracy decrease after a certain number of ships have opened fire on the same vessel.
-Exile(\/)
Well this is simply a bunch of horseshit. I think you are just pulling words out of your ass at this point. A damage cap would in no way put an end to the only real reason to have a massive fleet. What kind of hyperbole is that? It's absurd on the face of it. Massive fleets would still win over small fleets if there were damage caps.
Look, if you don't like the idea of a damage cap, fine. I can respect that. I DO have a problem with bullshit statements, however.
You guys are gettin out there.The only one that has any chance of making it is adjusting miti to cap levels.I would never vote yes to more than what deciever has suggested.80-82% tops.Otherwise its rediculous how much caps will be able to absorb.One of the fun aspects of the game is using your cap while its in danger.if your cap is never in danger then your just spamming abilities and not really accomplishing much.Bottom line for me is I will be voting no for anything over 82% and Im even hesitant for that much.
No Nerf Needed-
Increase DPS? Yay-
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