Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
BUGS
Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:
- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously
- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously
- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots
- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.
- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.
- Random Map Bugs:
- Single Phase lane starts
- No connected Asteroids
- Overlapping Gravity Wells
- Backwards Dunov Icon
- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)
- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock
- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul
- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.
- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING
- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).
CAPITAL SHIPS
This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.
Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)
Increase hp/shields/armor?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay-
Increase DPS?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon CallenExile Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Onigiri
Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Hrabandur Onigiri
Re-work Animosity?
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Hrabandur Onigiri
No Change needed- CoBBQ
Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)
Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- CallenExile MindsEye
No Change needed-
Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)
Buff Scramble Bombers?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Onigiri
Buff Replicate Forces?
Yay- Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
Increase AM regen?
Yay- Darvin3 Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- CallenExile Mindseye Onigiri
Increase maximum AM?
Yay- CallenExile Darvin3 Hrabandur Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon Onigiri
Increase Dunov EMP range?
Yay- CallenExile Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
Yay- Mindseye CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Deceiver_0
Nay- Ryat Volt_Cruelerz Warlord Mike Swordsalmon Onigiri
Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon
Buff Phase out hull?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- Ryat Onigiri
No Change Needed-
DELIVERANCE ENGINE
Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)
Buff Deliverance engine-
Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Kitkun Greyfox2 anteachtaire Mow Mow Warlord Mike Hrabandur Arthanis
Nay- Howdidudothat
No buff needed- Qu4r Darvin3 CallenExile
EMPIRE TREE
As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?
Adjust Empire Tree-
Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 SwordSalmon JSW_Ballz Mindseye Agent of Kharma Ryat 52500 Mow Mow Fuzzy Logic EadTaes Warlord Mike Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile
FIGHTERS
Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions
Buff Fighters-
Increase armor/hp?
Yay- Mindseye Mow Mow Greyfox2 Qu4r Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Ryat Top Vasari Warlord Mike EadTaes Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma CallenExile CrazyElectron
MAPS
Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?
Magnetic Clouds-
Allow starbase deployment?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Hrabandur Juletron Howdidudothat Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r CrazyElectron
Nay- Ryat CallenExile EadTaes DesConnor -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician
Ice/Volcanic planets-
Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Ryat Darvin3 Juletron Mindseye Mow Mow EadTaes JSW_Ballz Howdidudothat Warlord Mike Kitkun Ovi_187 -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CrazyElectron
Nay- CallenExile DesConnor DirtySanchezz Hrabandur Agent of Kharma Qu4r
No Changes needed-
ORKULUS STARBASE
This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.
Nerf Orkulus-
Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)
Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur Howdidudothat Top Vasari Swordsalmon Ryat anteachtaire LordMechanoid JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike Agent of Kharma DesConnor DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Qu4r CallenExile
Other-
SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")
Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Top Vasari Cykur LordMechanoid Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CallenExile CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- JSW_Ballz DesConnor Qu4r
SCOUT FRIGATES
A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.
Nerf Scouts-
Decrease hp/shields?
Yay-
Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur Arthanis
Decrease DPS?
Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Cykur
Increase Cost/supply?
Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon
Nay- DirtySanchezz Arthanis
No Nerf Needed- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma Sivcorp 52500 JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron
Balance Scouts-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Mow Mow Swordsalmon Darvin3 Ryat Greyfox2 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur Top Vasari LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile
Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?
Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat Greyfox2 Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Wingflier Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat CallenExile 52500 LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician JSW_Ballz Cykur Greyfox2 Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?
Yay- Mow Mow Swordsalmon Howdidudothat Ryat Chaotic Magician 52500 JSW_Ballz Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3 CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2 LordMechanoid Kitkun
Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid
No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma EadTaes DesConnor
RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS
While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?
Buff Skirmishers-
Increase DPS? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes DesConnor Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- LordMechanoid
Decrease Supply cost?
Yay- Raging Amish LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Resource cost?
Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike
Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat DirtySanchezz Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid lbgsloan Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r Arthanis
Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp Runesia DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Idea for Railguns:
- Stats not changed
- Energy cost reduced to... 30
Deciever I would also like to see mines cost reduced.They are to expensive imo.What ya think?
No.. you must not.... Pawelo is too good already.... Noooooooo..... Donnnttt
though mines are under used i dont really think they are too expensive, they are underused because they are easily avoided by a skilled player... unlesss you are against pawelo then just hope that the devs dont make mines cheaper....
_|~Uber
Devs did make mines cheaper in the last patch, thanks to the previous PSCF. Uber hit it right on the head, mines are underused because they are a risky investment, unless your name is Pawelo. I think they are worth the cost for what they can do, and that changing the cost won't change the fact that theirs a good chance they may end up worthless. Kinda like rushing to superweapons, it can pay off big despite the cost, but its risky to try and pull off. They can erase the fleets of the foolish or cocky, but can also be worthless against the clever and fair minded.
Another thing on Mines for you Marzabaters out there (or really anytime you KNOW your opponents going to try and kill your cap right out). Be ready with a nice minefield in a friendly system nearby. You know hes going to chase your Marza with his fleet to kill it before it reaches MB time, and you KNOW he more than likely going to be so desperate and sure that he can kill it that hes not going to scout ahead, but rather beat it to its destination with almost everything hes got. So why not jump your marza into a nice well placed minefield just to show him what a mistake it was to follow you. Besides, you can do more damage to his fleet with mines than with MB if you get it right.
Oh, and If you didnt know ( I only discovered this a month or so ago) Ruiners can be set to auto cast mines, just put them in the area you want it and it will start building a minefield from there bigger and bigger. A nice set it and forget it for the Vasari econ monster.
Warlord Mike-
I believe LRMS already DO outrange repulse(one of the few things that does), problem is illuminators tear them up so bad. And targeting uplink does increase the range of ships in the area (pretty sure allies too, other friendly boost auras do, i dont see why TU wouldnt)
Kitkun-
Could you be a little more specific about your Nay, do you mean buffing battleship as a whole or just buffing their hp/shields armor?
I'd agree, cost isn't the issue for mines. The problem is that they're too easy to avoid, and that's BEFORE we consider z-axis abuse.
I haven't seen people deploying mines in the middle of a fight. I've never seen anyone else attempt it, and when I tried it they just got shredded by flaks the instant they were created. Until I see it done successfully, I really can't speak about this strategy.
Illuminators have the shortest range of all LRF (by a very large margin). If the illuminators are close enough to shoot at your LRM's or assailants, your LRM's or assailants are close enough to shoot back. Targeting uplink does affect allies, but unfortunately the game lacks mid-ranged units, so there's very little that you can stack bonuses on to get past repulse.
I find the best solution is to mix heavies, flaks, and LRF. If they repulse, then at least sidebeams are out of the equation and it's a straight shootout. If they don't repulse, they have heavies to deal with. It's not going to even things up, but it's the best you can do.
Darvin,
Flaks and illuminators are a huge boon when trying to deploy during a fight, but I have seen mines used to prevent (or really discourage) carrier kiting. Just sneak some mines in around his carriers while he isnt looking and then when they try and move, boom, Lf food. Oh and lets not forget that AI is retarded, and one of the fastest ways to take down an AI fleet is with mines.
Oh and hey Distortion field outranges repulse now (yay!). Thing about going lrfs against repulse and illums, is that while illums have shortest range, repulse tends to spread enemies out putting the thinly hulled lrfs in firing range of sidebeams. Mixing in flaks and heavies is ALWAYS a good idea against lums, repulse or not.
Yeah, I...kinda thought they did, already...
Hmm...Well, what else could we do...
*snaps fingers* I've got it!
Is it possible to implement a "Critical Hit"-type effect (provided one isn't already in effect)? Because I have an idea that grants all ships in range to get a 5/10/15 percent chance on hit to deal double damage to enemies.
Just a thought, but, eh. =P
Statistically speaking, a 15% chance to deal double damage is just a 15% damage boost. Given a large enough number of attackers (in this game, that's a fair presumption) it will tend towards statistical averages.
Buff the dunov on shield restore and emp range and tec will have an answer.Vas has answer with subs.After that all that we have thats a prob is repulse vs repulse.oooooo what a sucky battle that is
Man tripled.I hate 3v1 .Ok ok guys I really havent used mines much because I didnt like the cost so maybe Ill try some sometime before I speak of it again.
Warlordmike get some celios with designate target and you get 40% more damage.Also if you have 50+ javs its worth getting cluster warheads for those tightly balled repulse fleets.However you will mostlikely lose anyway so get 100
(le sigh)
There has to be SOMETHING we could do to Target uplink that'd make it more desirable...but, alas, I'm out of ideas. I mean, I WOULD suggest bypass shields, but that would interfere with the new GRG.
TU is fine. It's not a powerful ability, but it's not supposed to be the selling point of the Akkan. The point is that awesome colonize ability and ion bolt. TU is a solid passive that I often go out of my way to unlock because of its tactical applications... you've ever seen a TEC starbase outrange Ogrovs?
On buffing support caps.
Increase AM Regen- Yay
Increase Max AM- Nay
Increase Dunov EMP Charge range- Yay
Allow Dunov Shield Restore to be self-targettable- Nay
Allow Antorak Subversion to affect SC- Nay
Buff Phase Out Hull- Yay (200/350/700 shield damage or restoration)
If Subversion is to be buffed, it should affect only planets and structures. Instead of affecting enemy SC, Subversion should be able to reduce HP and AM restoration of structures on that GW by 75/150/225%. Then it would actually be a lot more better, especially in disabling repair bays. Also, affecting SC will only make Carriers even less-used then they are now.
And Targetting Uplink is fine as-is. Possibly increasing ability ranges might be helpful, but its current purpose is quite valuable.
What if Subversion just killed AM restoration to begin with?
While starbases have extraordinary antimatter regeneration and I'd have no qualms with seeing new abilities to help shut down their abilities, hangers and repair bays actually have very limited antimatter reserves. Hangers especially are so low on antimatter that they're already deep in the underpowered range. Personally I think that an antimatter buff to hangers should be an item for discussion (along with a [milder] antimatter buff to carriers).
Yeah, in my recent dual Halcyon counter test, I discovered that they regenerated something like 0.3-0.4 AM per second. That is ridiculously slow. I second a buff to their AM regen rates.
Actually, it's so bad that Advent hangers run out of antimatter before they can build their initial three squads. I understand a fresh hanger should probably be a little vulnerable, this is ridiculous; it should at very least be able to build its initial squads, especially since Advent hangers necessarily require a tactical upgrade (or the 4-lab tech that passively boosts tactical slots)
I guess I hadn't thought of that, but it certainly makes sense. I hadn't scheduled any SC to be built so that I could test Phasic Trap solely.
Okay, this is a new page so i'll say this again:
Deciever, i appologize for the confusion of my vote before, but i am FOR the buff to DPS on Battleships. Sorry, i lumped it into the HP/Shield/Armor without thinking about it.
Yay DPS for Battleships
Yay HP/Shield/Armor for Battleships
-Exile(\/)
Hangers have a lot of other problems, and an antimatter increase to them would actually make this theoretical Subversion a lot more powerful. But repair bays already have a base 200 antimatter, with healing costing 20 antimatter. I completely agree with giving hangers an antimatter boost, so at least this Subversion would be a lot more damaging.
What do you think of increasing some non-carriers caps strikecrafts squads number? IMO it can be viable way of bufing them...
Capcariers atm have 8 squads max (exclusing abilities)
Idea:
battleship class (Kortul/Radiance/Kol) max strikecrafts squads number increased to 3 (from 2)
support class (Rapture/Dunov/Marauder) max strikecrafts squads number increased to 5 (from 3)
Colonizator class (Mothership/Egg/Akkan) - no changses needed (3 max atm)
Planet Killer class (Marza/Vulkoras/Revelation) max strikecrafts number increased to 3 (from 1-2)
Carrier Caps are still best option if you want to mass strikecrafts, but:
- underused support caps are viable option too
- other caps are not completely overshadowed in terms of strikecrafts by carriers...
What do you think?
I don't say it will make these caps 100% balanced, but I think combination of slight buffs is better option then huge buff to only one unit aspect.
Actually, I agree that mines are too expensive, and they need a further cost reduction. And to those who say the problem is that they are simply too risky of an investment, my question is why are they too risky? BECAUSE OF THE COST.
They aren't cost effective, they aren't worth paying for what you get from them in return. I vote to reduce the cost.
I also would like to hear reasons why ogrov's supply isn't too high. It seems to me that it is.
On Battleships, no change needed. This game does not need dreadnaughts that would screw over any player that does not have them at the beginning.
Mines can be used offensively, and if you are Vasari, you can get around not using PJI's by simply dropping a few gravity mines by the exit.
Delivernace Engine needs redoing, I dont build in because it is useless in multiplayer games, Kostrus kill fleets, Novas kill Planets, Delerivance kills culture, I might as well throw a my penis at them, at least it could do some damage .
I think Gardas need to be rebuffed, I feel that they should have two serparate weapon entities, one for fighters, the other for ground units. The fact that before this patch, illum spammers were really easy to beat with flak, and I mastered the way for tec to beat illum spammers, but now its getting much harder to do that. I lost 4 games in a row to an illum spammer, because there isnt an effecitve way to counter them anymore.
Scouts are good, but if the player gets guardians, or even more simplier, just keep consistant movement of there illums, then its harder to hurt them.
Its now come to a point where games are now turning out to be Advent vs Vasari, I have seen in 2 days, 4 out of 5 games only having advent and vasri races in. Developers nerfed tec to the death.
The only players are really see playing tec is me and krath.
you also need to put, change women drivers in capital ships to men, becuase they always get stuck when trying to do a 3 point turn in space!
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