Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
BUGS
Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:
- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously
- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously
- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots
- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.
- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.
- Random Map Bugs:
- Single Phase lane starts
- No connected Asteroids
- Overlapping Gravity Wells
- Backwards Dunov Icon
- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)
- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock
- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul
- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.
- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING
- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).
CAPITAL SHIPS
This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.
Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)
Increase hp/shields/armor?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay-
Increase DPS?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon CallenExile Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Onigiri
Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Hrabandur Onigiri
Re-work Animosity?
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Hrabandur Onigiri
No Change needed- CoBBQ
Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)
Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- CallenExile MindsEye
No Change needed-
Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)
Buff Scramble Bombers?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Onigiri
Buff Replicate Forces?
Yay- Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
Increase AM regen?
Yay- Darvin3 Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- CallenExile Mindseye Onigiri
Increase maximum AM?
Yay- CallenExile Darvin3 Hrabandur Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon Onigiri
Increase Dunov EMP range?
Yay- CallenExile Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
Yay- Mindseye CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Deceiver_0
Nay- Ryat Volt_Cruelerz Warlord Mike Swordsalmon Onigiri
Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon
Buff Phase out hull?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- Ryat Onigiri
No Change Needed-
DELIVERANCE ENGINE
Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)
Buff Deliverance engine-
Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Kitkun Greyfox2 anteachtaire Mow Mow Warlord Mike Hrabandur Arthanis
Nay- Howdidudothat
No buff needed- Qu4r Darvin3 CallenExile
EMPIRE TREE
As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?
Adjust Empire Tree-
Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 SwordSalmon JSW_Ballz Mindseye Agent of Kharma Ryat 52500 Mow Mow Fuzzy Logic EadTaes Warlord Mike Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile
FIGHTERS
Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions
Buff Fighters-
Increase armor/hp?
Yay- Mindseye Mow Mow Greyfox2 Qu4r Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Ryat Top Vasari Warlord Mike EadTaes Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma CallenExile CrazyElectron
MAPS
Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?
Magnetic Clouds-
Allow starbase deployment?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Hrabandur Juletron Howdidudothat Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r CrazyElectron
Nay- Ryat CallenExile EadTaes DesConnor -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician
Ice/Volcanic planets-
Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Ryat Darvin3 Juletron Mindseye Mow Mow EadTaes JSW_Ballz Howdidudothat Warlord Mike Kitkun Ovi_187 -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CrazyElectron
Nay- CallenExile DesConnor DirtySanchezz Hrabandur Agent of Kharma Qu4r
No Changes needed-
ORKULUS STARBASE
This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.
Nerf Orkulus-
Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)
Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur Howdidudothat Top Vasari Swordsalmon Ryat anteachtaire LordMechanoid JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike Agent of Kharma DesConnor DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Qu4r CallenExile
Other-
SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")
Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Top Vasari Cykur LordMechanoid Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CallenExile CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- JSW_Ballz DesConnor Qu4r
SCOUT FRIGATES
A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.
Nerf Scouts-
Decrease hp/shields?
Yay-
Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur Arthanis
Decrease DPS?
Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Cykur
Increase Cost/supply?
Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon
Nay- DirtySanchezz Arthanis
No Nerf Needed- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma Sivcorp 52500 JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron
Balance Scouts-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Mow Mow Swordsalmon Darvin3 Ryat Greyfox2 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur Top Vasari LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile
Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?
Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat Greyfox2 Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Wingflier Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat CallenExile 52500 LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician JSW_Ballz Cykur Greyfox2 Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?
Yay- Mow Mow Swordsalmon Howdidudothat Ryat Chaotic Magician 52500 JSW_Ballz Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3 CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2 LordMechanoid Kitkun
Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid
No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma EadTaes DesConnor
RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS
While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?
Buff Skirmishers-
Increase DPS? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes DesConnor Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- LordMechanoid
Decrease Supply cost?
Yay- Raging Amish LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Resource cost?
Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike
Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat DirtySanchezz Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid lbgsloan Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r Arthanis
Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp Runesia DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
I agree with darvin except on carriers.The am is pretty close to where it should be imo.Thing is if you go carrier heavy you need to get am regen upgrades then they rock.They dont really need a base upgrade.I think the am tec work fine.For the skirantra I wouldnt mind if scramble used more am and spawned a number of squads at one time.I like darvins idea about makin the replicate forces work on a fleet supply basis instead of a number f ships.
I often use replicate on flaks or overseers simply based on my needs in the heat of the moment, but it feels like such a waste when those could have been carriers or heavies... would be nice to have some option here.
I'd prefer reduced cooldown and slightly lower antimatter cost.
The problem currently is that they aren't stacking up to capital carriers. A lot of players never touch cruiser carriers until late game (for sheer mass) now that the capital variety offers a more reliable alternative. Perhaps a cost decrease instead then? Maybe they will be fine if the other capital ships are buffed and carrier caps are no longer agiven, but I still think they need a small boost to compete.
Yeah but you can only get about 3 caps and then the cost of caps vs frigates skyrockets.So eventually you have to get frigates or you will heavily be outnumbered.Caps imo should be better than frigates.The spam control on caps is the cost which works pretty well.Once you get 3-4 am upgrades I never notice to much of an am prob for my frigs unless im in heavy combat for a long time.
Either way sounds good to me.I think it is a good ability that needs to be tweaked and would be great.
New Update- Capital Ships.
Im in agreeance that it is not that the newly buffed carrier caps are OP, but rather many of the other caps are UP. The buff to carrier caps has brought them out from obscurity, I will not recommend nerfs to put them back there. People are still using colonizers, marzas, and I've seen the recently buffed Vasari siege cap used often as well. Personally I want to see battleships emerge as a good counter to Carrier caps, but ATM they aren't quite strong enough to manage them effectively.
I like the suggestion that the support caps (Dunov/Revelation/Antorak) should get increased AM regen so they can cast their abilities more consistantly during a battle (not necessarily faster, remember cooldowns). Anyone like that idea or have a better one?
As far as caps go, I think the BEST first choice caps should be in the Battleship,Carrier or Colonizer categories, with Bombardment and Support caps being strong in the running as a second Cap.
Yay to all of the cap ship chanegs listed.
Actually the Rapture is the Advent support-class capital ship. The Revelation is a siege class capital ship, even though its abilities are more like a support class. In any case, I believe that both the Revelation and Rapture should be treated like support class ships with regards to any buff.
Yay-(For Radiance, buff shields by 25%. For others, buff both H and S by 20%)
Yay-(For Kortul, 25%. For others, 20%)
Yay-(change damage to 800/1200/1600, but do NOT reduce AM cost)
Agreed.
Same here.
There are the v1.041 stats for level 1 caps that I have, anyone confirm?
Kol 3000 health 1250 shield 5 armour Radiance 2200/1750 4 Kortul 2650/1425 5
Sova 2850/1075 4 Halcyon 2075/1600 3 Skirantra 2425/1275 4
Akkan 3150/1000 3 Progenitor 2350/1450 3 Egg 2800/1150 3
Marza 2875/1150 4 Revelation 2075/1500 4 Vulkoras 2525/1350 4
Dunov 2800/1125 4 Rapture 2100/1625 4 Antorak 2350/1225 4
Okay. I think we're just nit-picking for things to change now. I see absolutely no problem on capitol ships for the most part.
So, that said:
Yay to DPS/HP/Shields/Armor on Primary Capitols.
Nay to all others except Gauss Rail Gun.
I do believe Gauss could use a buff, but i will not place a vote until you put the numbers for that change up for vote. 800/1200/1600 is absolutely rediculous though. Less than that.
-Exile(\/)
Actually, I did the math of GRG prior to the last patch. This is actually not nearly as ridiculous as it sounds. GRG has a 6 second cooldown, and is affected by shield mitigation (~60% damage reduction). So a level 5 Kol spamming this non-stop at a single target would deal about 100 dps even with these "ridiculous" numbers.
That may sound powerful, but when you put it in context with what units are capable of doing that late in the game, or how much performance you're getting for your antimatter, it's actually not "out there" at all.
Okay. Sorry, i forgot about DR. Perhaps those numbers aren't so bad, but i still won't vote until numbers are posted on the thread itself.
thx Darvin for correcting me.
Yay to all except the egg.Put me down for a nay to the egg.
Deicever can we get the dunov up there?I would like for shield restore to be castable on itself and for a range buff to emp charge.
I'd be okay with the range buff, but not self-casting on shield restore. It'd make it too much of a tank. And we'd see it used exactly like the Progenitor...with the obvious changes like no colonizing.
Vote yes on all the capital ship buffs. For the Kol's GRG, either severely lower its antimatter cost, increase its damage, or make the ability negate shield migitation.
Don't negate mitigation. That'd make the Kol's other main ability worthless. A lower AM cost would be best. like...20-25 points at most tho.
Think a bigger am reserve would be better.When you get am ups and the cap reaches higher levels it has pretty good am regen.I like the idea of them being able to spam an ability or 2 for longer so its a choice of what you use.If am regen gets to high it wontr matter and it will all be up to cooldown times of the abilities themselves.In that case there will be no strategic value in choosing your abilities.
My original suggestion was higher regeneration AND reserves (approximately 50-100% larger).
I don't think we'd run into problems where capital ships actually don't run out of antimatter. With the exception of the Rapture, all support-class capital ships have three abilities that cost antimatter, and most of them have relatively short cooldowns. I think it's feasible they might not run out of antimatter if they spam only two of those abilities, but if using all three they will be depleted even then.
This buff is mostly aimed at the early game anyways, when support caps pretty much aren't touched.
Either u missed these votes or I didn't post for some reason but:
Nay- Move phase jumping ships to bottom of screen (Not that this one vote will help)
Nay- to buff fighters. I am absolutely against this, as i have no trouble with them at all.
Nay- Orkulus buld penalty increase.
Yay- SB constructor Phase Monitoring alarm.
Now, onto the previous post:
Agreed on the AM reserve...about 100 more points initially i think would pretty much cover what is lacking. This should be up for vote though i think.
Great job on the success and continued work you've put into this, Deciever.
@SS: I don't think it needs an AM redux or to bypass shield mitigation. If you reduce its AM cost, then the combo with flux field goes away. If you make it ignore mitigation, then you just made a super-weapon..
But I am all for a larger AM reserve for support caps..
The so-called GRG/Flux Field combo is essentially non-existant. Requirng a level 6 and level 5 cap just to deal so much damage is never seen, especially since the damage output is weak compared to other cap combinations. And while ignoring shield migitation might be a bit too powerful, GRG really needs some sort of strength. Either that or signifigantly increase the damage of GRG.
And Deciever, please do add me to yay for all the current capital buffs. In case the previous post gets stifled out by other posts.
Updated- Support Caps are up there now.
Mindseye, I agree with EMP, I'd like to see it be a nasty boon to Repulse, and i t need a little more range for that. As far as Shield restore goes, its a very good ability already, I don't think it needs a boost (although self targeting would be nice).
Callen, I went ahead and put you down under GRG because the questions isnt how much GRG is buffed, its whether or not it should be. And it seems obvious to me that you think it should (just not sure how) All recommended stats are just that, recommended. Volts recommended stats do not mean that everyone who agrees with the buff agrees with the recommendation. If you insist I can take your name down, but Im confident the DEVS can decide on exactly how to buff it so long as we can convince them its needed.
Taking a look at DesConnors stats a few posts up, It seems quite ridiculous that the margin between Battleships and Carriers combined hp/shields is only 300-400 in favor of battleships. And between battleships and colonizers its much less. Its no wonder they aren't chosen as primary caps because their small margin of survivability is vastly outweighed by Carriers and Colonizers utility. I would DEFINITELY like to see their Hp/shields raised so that their utility IS their survivability. A small increase to their firepower couldn't hurt either, but they should certainly be the toughest Caps to kill.
Didnt call for a boost just to self target.
Go ahead and leave it, Deciever. I just wanted to make sure what i was voting for, and if that's it, then it was a Yay anyway.
Also, i lumped DPS into my Yay for HP/Shields/Armor, so it should be in the Yay, not Nay section. Sorry bout the confusion there.
Nay- Support AM regen buff
Yay- Support AM reserves. (As i said, +100 would be nice i think. But this is a generic yes/no, so w/e)
Yay- EMP range buff.
yay to AM maximum and regeneration. No opinion on EMP buff.
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