Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
BUGS
Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:
- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously
- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously
- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots
- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.
- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.
- Random Map Bugs:
- Single Phase lane starts
- No connected Asteroids
- Overlapping Gravity Wells
- Backwards Dunov Icon
- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)
- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock
- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul
- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.
- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING
- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).
CAPITAL SHIPS
This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.
Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)
Increase hp/shields/armor?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay-
Increase DPS?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon CallenExile Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Onigiri
Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Hrabandur Onigiri
Re-work Animosity?
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Hrabandur Onigiri
No Change needed- CoBBQ
Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)
Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- CallenExile MindsEye
No Change needed-
Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)
Buff Scramble Bombers?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Onigiri
Buff Replicate Forces?
Yay- Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
Increase AM regen?
Yay- Darvin3 Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- CallenExile Mindseye Onigiri
Increase maximum AM?
Yay- CallenExile Darvin3 Hrabandur Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon Onigiri
Increase Dunov EMP range?
Yay- CallenExile Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
Yay- Mindseye CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Deceiver_0
Nay- Ryat Volt_Cruelerz Warlord Mike Swordsalmon Onigiri
Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon
Buff Phase out hull?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- Ryat Onigiri
No Change Needed-
DELIVERANCE ENGINE
Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)
Buff Deliverance engine-
Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Kitkun Greyfox2 anteachtaire Mow Mow Warlord Mike Hrabandur Arthanis
Nay- Howdidudothat
No buff needed- Qu4r Darvin3 CallenExile
EMPIRE TREE
As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?
Adjust Empire Tree-
Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 SwordSalmon JSW_Ballz Mindseye Agent of Kharma Ryat 52500 Mow Mow Fuzzy Logic EadTaes Warlord Mike Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile
FIGHTERS
Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions
Buff Fighters-
Increase armor/hp?
Yay- Mindseye Mow Mow Greyfox2 Qu4r Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Ryat Top Vasari Warlord Mike EadTaes Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma CallenExile CrazyElectron
MAPS
Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?
Magnetic Clouds-
Allow starbase deployment?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Hrabandur Juletron Howdidudothat Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r CrazyElectron
Nay- Ryat CallenExile EadTaes DesConnor -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician
Ice/Volcanic planets-
Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Ryat Darvin3 Juletron Mindseye Mow Mow EadTaes JSW_Ballz Howdidudothat Warlord Mike Kitkun Ovi_187 -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CrazyElectron
Nay- CallenExile DesConnor DirtySanchezz Hrabandur Agent of Kharma Qu4r
No Changes needed-
ORKULUS STARBASE
This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.
Nerf Orkulus-
Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)
Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur Howdidudothat Top Vasari Swordsalmon Ryat anteachtaire LordMechanoid JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike Agent of Kharma DesConnor DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Qu4r CallenExile
Other-
SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")
Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Top Vasari Cykur LordMechanoid Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CallenExile CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- JSW_Ballz DesConnor Qu4r
SCOUT FRIGATES
A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.
Nerf Scouts-
Decrease hp/shields?
Yay-
Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur Arthanis
Decrease DPS?
Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Cykur
Increase Cost/supply?
Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon
Nay- DirtySanchezz Arthanis
No Nerf Needed- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma Sivcorp 52500 JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron
Balance Scouts-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Mow Mow Swordsalmon Darvin3 Ryat Greyfox2 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur Top Vasari LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile
Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?
Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat Greyfox2 Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Wingflier Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat CallenExile 52500 LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician JSW_Ballz Cykur Greyfox2 Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?
Yay- Mow Mow Swordsalmon Howdidudothat Ryat Chaotic Magician 52500 JSW_Ballz Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3 CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2 LordMechanoid Kitkun
Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid
No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma EadTaes DesConnor
RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS
While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?
Buff Skirmishers-
Increase DPS? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes DesConnor Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- LordMechanoid
Decrease Supply cost?
Yay- Raging Amish LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Resource cost?
Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike
Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat DirtySanchezz Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid lbgsloan Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r Arthanis
Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp Runesia DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
The novalith doesnt just do damage to eco.If you kill all planets then the other guy cant build anything.Plus you cut his income down by 30-50% maybe.Kostura can kill entire fleets and buildings.Deliverance does what exactly?Knocks allegiance down by 10% on a couple planets.The other 2 sw are not easily countered like the de.They have profound impact on game de does not.The de is not really a sw if you ask me.Its as expensive as the novalith to get and will 90% do nothing to win you the game.Even the 25% buff to fleet isnt all that.I dont think it even tells you how long it lasts ?You have to have a fleet that is near same size as your enemy for that 25% to do you really good.
But add 25% to the illum bug that everyone screams about and people might think they are facing the death star.
On another note, I think I might bring up another subject. Cap carriers are IMO now overpowered. Spamming one type of cap should not be a viable plan of action but now it is practically required. First off lets start on their SC squads. Cap ship squads are not AM dependant at all(same goes for SBs but that is besides the point). They will build regardless of AM stores at their same rates. Not only do they build completely free but now there are a lot more of them on the carrier caps. They also have some good abilities that made them worthwhile even before they were buffed. Halcyon can tele push huge amounts of SC, has a great dps increasing aura, and can get yet still more squads. This enhances its ability to act as support for the popular disciple and scout rushing. Skirantra have an AE repair and vasari use it to great avail as they SB rush your hw. They counter the early counter(LRF namely) to the SB rush and they repair the damn thing as it builds too adding insult to injury. SB rushing was bad enough before but now it is difficult to fend off even if you are ready waiting with those bugged illums people gripe so much about. So to fend off a vasari SB rush now you have to have flak ready with LRF(difficult to do without heavy feed), spam carrier caps like your opponent, or build large amounts of LF. As far as TEC goes, Sovas aren't quite as bad. Sure embargo is annoying and some will kite all over the well to tap your early econ at your hw but it isn't THAT bad. My issues are mostly with the halcyon and skirantra. Thoughts?
[_]-Greyfox
HI!
My 5 cents:
1. All Wave weapons upgrades should be available one tier earlier (and it's relative cost should be lower too). Wave tech is really weak for it's cost and affect only one type of unit (+ some capitals).
2. Kortuls disruptive strikes triggering chance is really low. I know it is passive, this ability is completely overshadowed by other two (surge and jam). IMO it should be increased from 25% to something like 33%. Note it is one of only few capital passives in game not affecting damage/survivability of it's user.
3. Colonization capitals are overshadowing colonization frigates too much...
4. What do you think of lowering control points requirements of capitals? You already need research another tree to build them...
5. Flagships - they do nothing. Idea:
-Flagship get 15% bonus to HP, Shields and antimatter reserves. Flagship also increase allegiance in friendly system by 10%.
-you can change your flagship same way you change capitol (pay some money and after time flagsip bonuses are transfered from one ship to other one)
-If you lost your first flagship only one to get another one is buying "flagship" for one of your existing capitals
I have my hands full with damn halcyons, but I think all the caps were much deserving of the buff they got, I think the devs finally did something right about the underpowered crapships... uh, capships, and so I am not in favor of nerfing carrier caps.
First off, I really don't consider the skirantra repair that good, especially at low levels. I have to pump 2 skirantras to even think about trying to keep a starbase alive while it is building, and I am guaranteed to lose 1 of them because the enemy will focus it.
Second off, it is exceedingly difficult to successfully rush an enemy's HW with sb, even backed by skirantras. I build two skirantras right off the bat now, and research SB, so that I can defend my own HW from an advent rush with halcyons. You know what? It still isn't successful. In other words, I'll lose my SB at my own homeworld during the rush, and usually at least 1 of the caps. So how much more difficult is it to get my SB up at some other guy's HW? I see no problem with uncounterable vasari starbases and skirantras.
LOL, the sova is only the most powerul carrier in the game. It eats skirantras and halcyons alive.
Maybe if you sit there and let missle batteries kill it then sova will beat a halcyon or skirantra but personally I am not going to stupidly sit there and get hit when I can move out of range.
My point is its not worth the cost.If you consider all the resources and take it and put it into fleet to add to your existing fleet I bet the resulting firepower would be more than a 25% increase in overall strength.Its doesnt work as a standalone option either.The novalith deals an isntant cash back reward cause if you wait till you have 2 or 3 you can kill someones hw making them make a new and recolonize which all costs alot of resources.3 or 4 kos are close to = an uncounterable mb.The amount of damage the de does is directly linked to your fleet size and composition.Say your fighting a fleet of carriers with lf and his teamate shows up with some lrf and you got a de.The sw is totally worthless whereas kos and nov are still extremely valueable.Also does the 25% bonus apply to all allies or just you cause nov and kos can support allies extremely well.
Im pretty sure most of the people here have hired somehit men incase the ilum doesnt get nerfed next patch
I've found that the buff to Carrier caps has actually helped much much more than its hurt. yes they are strong now, OP? No I don't think so. The carrier caps being stronger and now more popular has brought more option in which cap to start with. If you recall last patch the game was dominated by Eggs, Motherships and Marzas. Predictable. Now a lot of people are using carrier caps yes, but I think that will die off a little once more people learn how to effectively counter them. The helpful side is I've seen much more variety in starting caps since the patch. Colonizers are still used as well as Marzas, and I've seen people using Kortuls and Kols to combat carrier caps. All in all I see that the buff to carrier caps has opened up more options for starting caps and created a need for anti-sc caps.
I disagree, when I use Kortuls I always put points into disruptive strikes now, and then points into surge or jam depending on what I need. I do this because DS is passive and does not require AM, saving it for the other AM using abilities. Its chance seems low, but it effects all of its weapons now which means that chance is applied individually per weapon, meaning that theres a chance it will occur for each of its 9 or so weapon banks (Im pretty sure anyway). And at lvls 2 and 3, DS is devastating to ANY ability carrying unit by sapping AM and increasing ability cooldowns. I think it works wonderfully now.
We've called for this repeatedly, I may take a vote for this again on this thread, but my thinking is that in the last PSCF there was a lot of support for wave upgrades being lower tiered, and yet the devs didnt change it. What that says to me is that they have a good reason to have them there, though I cant for the life of me figure out what it is.
You can say the same thing about marza missle barrage, fox (I'm not going to stupidly sit there and take it in the face - I'll avoid it or interrupt it), but it doesn't mean it isn't the most powerful damage dealing ability in the game.
I don't say it is useless. I say it is underpowered. Of course it don't cost antimatter, but at lower lewels it aslo do near nothing - antimatter reduction is too low to even negate opponent AM regeneration (Look at Radiance Absorptive armor - it not only give instant damage reduction vs all typs of attacks, it also improve your AM regeneration). DS is realy one of the least critical passive abilities in game - no bonus to damage, no bonus to defense, only some support vs ships using AM... and only on highest level of skill (lower levels are not enough to negate AM regeneration. It is one of the most specialized pasives in the game AND one of least gamebreaking. Note I don't want to give it huge buff - only sligh triggering chance increase. Just to make it better in it's extremely specialized job (in numbers: 33% beter)...
Fortunately for me, advent anti-sc cap is a halcyon. I guess I will have to bite the bullet,switch from my trusty progen, and make halcyons myself now. Yay for halcyon spam!
Agree 100%. The solution is to tweak other ships, not nerf carrier caps.
I have complained as much about the halycon and TK as anyone else. But I'd rather see something else tweaked on other caps rather than beat the halcyon with the nerf bat. My complaints about siege frigs and marza aside, I usually favor other adjustments besides nerfs.
I vehemently disagree.
First off, NO MORE NERFS TO VASARI.
Second off, the stun on the kostura really isn't that long. I hit an advent fleet 4 consecutive times the other day with kostura strikes back to back. It had an effect on him, but minimal, and he still would have won the battle had I not used subverters on him.
Third, the destructive capacity of a lone kostura is way below that of a marza missle barrage.
Yes I consider the kostura the best superweapon in the game. But I don't mind that. Vasari has many other weaknesses, the other factions have many other strengths. Vasari is a late game faction. And truth be told, you rarely if ever see superweapons in multiplayer.
If there is a problem with superweapon balance (not saying there is, not saying there isn't), buff the other superweapons instead of nerfing vasari.
One idea would be to make the novalith cannon immune to the starbase planet lockdown. In other words, it takes you off of the planet regardless of a starbase with planet lockdown capability. Here's something interesting: we've discussed trying to retune the role of the shield generator, since it comes so high in the tech tree, but its role is largely subsumed by the starbase. What about making the shield generator also work in tandem with the tec starbase so as to make it immune to losing the planet to a novalith strike? The novalith could still bomb the planet down to nothing, but if you have tec starbase planet lockdown upgrade WITH shield generator, you won't lose the planet. In other words, the other factions could lose their planets to buffed novalith strikes even if they have starbases with planet lockdown, but a tec equipped with shield generator and starbase with planet lockdown wouldn't.
In addition to the advent superweapon buffs already thrown out there, another idea would be to make it possible to fire it at the planet it is actually orbiting (I don't know if this is currently possible - my guess is no). Hell, just to brainstorm, since it is already a fleet buff cannon, what about making it add a tiny bit to shields (either mitigation, recharge rate, or just a flat shield restore of so many points?)
The thing is, once you reach late game (especially superweapon level), Vasari are no longer weak at all. To the contrary, I think if you survive to late game the Vasari are arguably the strongest faction. There's no question that in any role other than pocket economy (thanks to pervasive economy), TEC is far and away the weakest faction in the late game, and Vasari and Advent both vastly outclass them.
In other words, I'm not allowed to have a capital once my enemy has two Novaliths? No thanks, I'd rather see superweapons removed from the game than cheese like this.
So now TEC is the only faction capable of withstanding Novalith strikes? This is just sounding cheesier and cheesier.
Weird; I got hit by 5 or 6 consecutive blasts last night (that game firmed my convictions about Kostura) and my entire fleet died. I wasn't even fighting, my guys were at full health and then they vapourized by a string of blasts. I tried to get out of the gravity well as soon as I saw the blasts heading towards me, but the repeated stuns prevented me from getting out in time. I'd pushed pretty close to their Kosturas, too, so the first one was only two jumps away and I had virtually no time to react.
The point is there is NO COUNTER to this, and it singlehandedly torches fleets of arbitrary size. If this is how superweapons are supposed to be, go ahead and buff the Novalith and Deliverance to obscenity, but give me a toggle to turn them off.
A no superweapons check box in the game settings doesn't seem like a bad idea.
I agree that the Deliverance Engine needs to be strengthened, so put me down as a Yes vote for strengthening it.
The main problem with the current cap balance isn't that carriers are too powerful, but the other caps just aren't strong enough to be especially powerful to be very viable in early-game combat. The exceptions are the three colony caps, which are still strong or beneficial enough and are still common. Though the Halcyon Carrier does need a nerf to Telekinetic Push; it just makes this ship far too powerful currently. And the Sova an Skirantra do need some buffs, namely to Missile Batteries and Scramble Bombers/Microphasing Aura.
For TEC, the Marza, Kol, and Dunov need boosts. For the Marza, reducing the cooldown time of Uranium Bomb would be very beneficial early-game. Dunov's EMP Charge could also use a shield damage increase, and possibly antimatter cost reductions for all its abilities sans Flux Field. And the Kol... well, it's so atrocious that it needs enormous changes to all its abilities just to become usable again. In addition, a flat DPS boost on the Kol and Marza would help enormously.
Vasari caps also need some boosts. Namely, the Egg could use a boosted Colonize (Possibly creating temporary construction frigates per level?) and an antimatter cost reduction to Gravity Warhead. Vulkoras' PMS would improve by being affected by Phase Missile research, and the Kortul needs a slight buff to Jam Weapons (Ability range increase?).
I don't really care enough about Advent to look into it; someone else please suggest something.
Also, carrier cruisers would actually be more usable if their crystal cost wasn't so hugely high. Vasari has a far less problem with it, but TEC carriers cost what, 135 crystal? And Drone Hosts are 220 crystal. If their costs were decreased, the cruisers would be a lot more viable.
Scramble and Microphasing yes, but missile batteries? That ability is quite fine right now. Maybe a little weak late game, but if you buffed it any more it would be OP early game.
I otherwise agree with what you're saying for TEC and Vasari. I don't think abilities can be affected by research, however, so phase missile swarm will need to be buffed in a different manner. Antorak also needs help.
Reducing the cost of carrier cruisers might be one approach to making them better. One of the key problems with them right now is that if you travel any distance (4 or more jumps) they get completely drained of antimatter which makes them useless in battle. Unless you're in an entrenched situation where your lateral mobility is maybe 2 or 3 jumps that makes them completely impractical.
The only real change for Missile Batteries is to allow it to be affected by missile research. Missile upgrades are generally a bit expensive to get early-game, so it'd just improve them later in the game, when the ability loses its use.
With Phase Missile Swarm, another idea is to just increase its damage potential, but then it'd pretty much be a Uranium Bomb clone. Allowing shield bypass would make the ability comparatively more powerful.
So possibly a cost decrease and an antimatter decrease to create SC?
Nay
No buff needed- yay
No Changes needed- yay
Nay- x10!!!
Nay- x10 Advent bug abusers
SCOUT FRIGATEShotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think Nerf Scouts-
No Nerf Needed- Yay
Increase DPS? Yay-
This time add all my answers pls
doublepost
Damn quotes are broken, so I'm going to have to do this by hand....<<In other words, I'm not allowed to have a capital once my enemy has two Novaliths? No thanks, I'd rather see superweapons removed from the game than cheese like this.>>You call this cheese, but what's the difference between the way this plays, and the vanilla version of the game where there are no starbases to protect you from losing the planet to bombardment?I'm not necessarily stating that I'm for this, because any buff to other superweapons would be a nerf to vasari, and any such thing should be thought through carefully. I'm just saying I'd probably much rather see other superweapons buffed rather than your suggestion that the kostura be nerfed.
<<What about making the shield generator also work in tandem with the tec starbase so as to make it immune to losing the planet to a novalith strike?>><<So now TEC is the only faction capable of withstanding Novalith strikes? This is just sounding cheesier and cheesier.>>I'm not saying that any of these suggestions should be implemented, I was just brainstorming ideas. But having said that, what's wrong with the idea in principle? Factions aren't balanced by unit, they are balanced by race, so having TEC as the "only faction that can do X" isn't problematic in and of itself. The shield generator needs something added to it. And if other superweapons are to be buffed (not saying they should or shouldn't be), this sounds like a good buff to the novalith.<<I wasn't even fighting, my guys were at full health and then they vapourized by a string of blasts. I tried to get out of the gravity well as soon as I saw the blasts heading towards me, but the repeated stuns prevented me from getting out in time. I'd pushed pretty close to their Kosturas, too, so the first one was only two jumps away and I had virtually no time to react.>>All the superweapons are hugely expensive, and the cooldowns on them are huge. Just building 1 costs 8000 credits, not including research, labs, etc. To me they are already questionable as far as their "bang for the buck." If you nerf them, won't they be severely underpowered for what you are paying?<<The point is there is NO COUNTER to this.>>Vasari could counter with their own superweapon. They could put a phase stabilizer node on the enemy planet with the kostura. TEC could counter with the buffed novalith I posited (if you lose your planet, does that mean you can't fire your superweapon orbiting that planet?).<<and it singlehandedly torches fleets of arbitrary size.>>One superweapon will not singlehandedly do jack shit. It takes a minimum of 5 or 6 as what happened to you, to torch a fleet of arbitrary size. Using the number of 5 superweapons, that's 40,000 credits, not counting crytal/metal. If that amount of superweapons and credits should not torch a fleet, what number do you think is appropriate?Note that I am not arguing with you or challenging you. I am simply asking an honest question. Perhaps I'm entirely wrong on superweapons and should rethink them, and I'm willing to do that. So I'd like to hear your arguments.<<If this is how superweapons are supposed to be, go ahead and buff the Novalith and Deliverance to obscenity, but give me a toggle to turn them off.>>I have always favored toggles for most things in the game, like siege frigs. If they had made that a toggle long ago, as I suggested, it would have saved a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth. Sure, I support a toggle for superweapons.What do you think the proper role and balance of superweapons should be in the game, given their enormous resource cost, tactical slots cost, etc. I have not delivered a vote on the deliverence, and might not ever vote on it. These are just ideas in response to what you said above.
I don't really have an opinion on the Halcyon, because i rarely play advent, and have in fact been favoring Vasari lately. As to the other 2 Cap ships, i say Sova and Skirantra are tied for their usability. Sova, between its onboard weapons, Heavy Strikecraft Squadrons, and Missile Batteries, is a small fleet unto itself. Add into the mix its Embargo and Instant-replacement ability, and it's usefulness speaks for itself. Skirantra is practically the same thing, with minor tweaks that shift it to a survivability fleet. Send a diverse fleet along with it, and use Replicate forces on the ship that cunters the threatening ship in your opponent's fleet, and set Repair Cloud to Auto-Cast, hit Scramble Bombers once in a whil, and you're good to go unless you're outnumbered.
As for superweapons, there should be absolutely no counter unless we add into the game super-defenses. Superweapons are all weaker than they should be, but they are in my opinion balanced to oneanother, so either buff them all at once, or leave them all alone. In my opinion, excluding the minor tweaks i have agreed on here, the game is reasonable as is.
-Exile
I meant singlehandedly as in this one unit-type kills fleets, not that a single Kostura could do so. My fault for choice of words. Point is, once five or six of these are up, you lose.
If it's going to torch a fleet, it's got to be counterable, hard to get that perfect setup. As it is, there are TOO many ways you can set up someone to take the full brunt of that superweapon barrage. Yes, 40000 is an expensive superweapon setup. On the flipside, that's about the same cost as 400 command in units, and you get to take out forces like that once every 5 minutes or so.
How about none? Torching a fleet shouldn't be in the realm of superweapon power.
Even if it were to be, the other superweapons would need fundamental overheals to compete with the Kostura. As mentioned, even if its damage were removed completely it would still be far and away the best superweapon. In my opinion, you could take away the stun as well and it would still be top dog.
My opinion is that superweapons should provide a massive strategic liability for the opponent. They should not stack (at least beyond a reasonable point, like 2 novalith shots kill a planet) against a specific target. They should be counterable, so the enemy cannot be defeated by superweapons alone and you need to capitalize on their ability with fleets to get the win.
I don't see the point of a super weapon if its isnt super. Nor do I see the point of having a toggle for them if they arent powerful. Kosturas are in the realm I think a superweapon should definitely be. It should be able to torch a fleet given enough of them. The two things the Kostura are weak against are Starbases and enemies who are Attacking. You cannot use the Kostura defensively, and that is its biggest weakness (not to mention fleets in neutral wells are untargettable). I recently played a game where I was able to build 4 Kosturas but was unable to use them because the enemy fleets had broken our frontlines and were digging into our planets. The money I sunk into Kosturas would have been better served feeding my allies or building a larger fleet to hold off my enemies, and thus even having almost enough Kosturas to erradicate any fleet actually helped us lose the game. THe problem with Novas is that the longer theyre active, the less they are effective, as opponents shore up their planets with starbases. When they are first brought out theyre quite powerful and in the realm of "super". To keep them strong as the game progresses, I think they should do a percent damage to structures (and maybe have kosturas be unable to damage structures to make it unique) around planets, so one could really wreak havoc on an opponents economy by destroying planet population and orbital structures (starbases maybe too). The deliverance engine is the only superweapon that needs a major overhaul, because as is its not a game changer like the other two can be and certainly doesn't warrant an on/off toggle (of which Id like the idea, if all superweapons were on the same level of power).
Don't mean to hijack the thought about Superweapons but has anyone notice the oddness of the Vasari cruiser carriers? They have a supply cost of 14 the same as TECs yet the Vasari can get 15% more fleet added to them due to research. Think maybe they should have their supply cost raised about 2 points ( mathmatically 15% of 14 is 2.1) to make an equalizing of this issue.
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