Hey everyone its that time again, lets compile some data!
This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.
BUGS
Since the last patches release, the main complaint I've seen on the forums are in the form of bugs, so I'm compiling a list of the known ones, and will update the list as more are discovered. Some of the early bugs were fixed in the hotfix, and perhaps (fingers crossed) the Devs will release another hotfix to address the rest, rather than a whole new patch. So here it goes:
- Nano Weapons Jammer autocast AI casts continuously
- AM Recharger autocast AI casts continuously
- Illuminator causes mystery damage between shots
- Phasic Trap research Level 2 still has no effect.
- Orkulus Phase Stabilizer does not work on stars.
- Random Map Bugs:
- Single Phase lane starts
- No connected Asteroids
- Overlapping Gravity Wells
- Backwards Dunov Icon
- Pathing Improvements (specifically dealing with stationary obstacles)
- Orkulus commands cancelled when trade ships dock
- No wave cannon sounds on Kortul
- Resource extractors on HWs produce income before they're constructed.
- PAWELOS BUG HUNTING
- Siege Militia/pirates run from turrets before construction is complete (exploit).
CAPITAL SHIPS
This will be a large section that will continue to evolve through out the life of this thread so check back often for new topics. Consensus seems to think now that carrier caps have all been buffed, many of the other caps need to be brought up to par with them.
Buff Battleship Class(Kol/Radiance/Kortul)
Increase hp/shields/armor?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay-
Increase DPS?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(20-25%) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon CallenExile Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Onigiri
Buff Gauss Rail Gun?-
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz(800/1200/1600) Darvin3 Deceiver_0 CallenExile MindsEye Swordsalmon CrazyElectron Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Hrabandur Onigiri
Re-work Animosity?
Yay- Volt_Cruelerz Darvin3 Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Hrabandur Onigiri
No Change needed- CoBBQ
Colonizer Caps(Akkan/Progenitor/Jarrasul)
Buff Jarrasul Evacuator's colonize?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- CallenExile MindsEye
No Change needed-
Carrier Class Caps(Sova/Halcyon/Skirantra)
Buff Scramble Bombers?
Yay- Darvin3 Volt_Cruelerz Deceiver_0 MindsEye Swordsalmon Agent of Kharma Hrabandur Ryat Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- CallenExile Onigiri
Buff Replicate Forces?
Yay- Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Buff Support Class Caps(Dunov/Antorak/Rapture/Revelation)
Increase AM regen?
Yay- Darvin3 Hrabandur CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- CallenExile Mindseye Onigiri
Increase maximum AM?
Yay- CallenExile Darvin3 Hrabandur Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon Onigiri
Increase Dunov EMP range?
Yay- CallenExile Mindseye Volt_Cruelerz CrazyElectron Ryat Juletron Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Allow Dunov shield restore to be self targetable?
Yay- Mindseye CrazyElectron Juletron Arthanis Deceiver_0
Nay- Ryat Volt_Cruelerz Warlord Mike Swordsalmon Onigiri
Allow Antoraks subversion to effect SC?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Onigiri
Nay- Ryat Swordsalmon
Buff Phase out hull?
Yay- Mindseye Juletron Volt_Cruelerz Arthanis Warlord Mike Swordsalmon
Nay- Ryat Onigiri
No Change Needed-
DELIVERANCE ENGINE
Without a doubt the weakest of the superweapons, there is little point in seeking it. For too long its been sitting in a dusty box on the shelf, to weak to be worth its tremendous costs. Lets consider some buffs to at least make it functional as a weapon. The one buff thats been suggested that I like is an instant allegiance drop, which will aid Advent in cultural takeovers of border planets and with enough, could possibly overthrow an enemy planet (though Id say it should require many more than the fearsome novalith)
Buff Deliverance engine-
Cause an instant decrease in allegiance?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Kitkun Greyfox2 anteachtaire Mow Mow Warlord Mike Hrabandur Arthanis
Nay- Howdidudothat
No buff needed- Qu4r Darvin3 CallenExile
EMPIRE TREE
As I feel that the devs decision to put "Phase Jumping" ships at the top of the tree was purposeful and not a bug, I think most of us agree that the constant movement it creates (especially with phase monitoring!) makes the empire tree difficult to use. Move it to the bottom?
Adjust Empire Tree-
Move "Phase Jumping Ships" to the bottom of the tree?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 SwordSalmon JSW_Ballz Mindseye Agent of Kharma Ryat 52500 Mow Mow Fuzzy Logic EadTaes Warlord Mike Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile
FIGHTERS
Some are unsatisfied with fighters with regards to surviving flak. I urge everyone to read the points of debate between Mindseye and myself starting on page 10-11, to get a better understanding of why fighters should or should not be adjusted. Below are a few suggestions
Buff Fighters-
Increase armor/hp?
Yay- Mindseye Mow Mow Greyfox2 Qu4r Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Ryat Top Vasari Warlord Mike EadTaes Hrabandur Howdidudothat -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma CallenExile CrazyElectron
MAPS
Raging Amish has proposed some modest changes to maps that I think we could possibly have implemented with enough support, so lets get a vote to see what people think of them. Magnetic clouds are huge wastes of space as their is nothing terribly beneficial about them. People with ability heavy fleets and caps would opt to fight you somewhere else (and can do so without much penalty). They make awful chokepoints because you can't put starbases or mines there, and they offer no economic value. I'd like to hear some ideas on how to improve them (beyond removing them completely from the game as RA has suggested). If we can come up with some good ones I'll put them up for a vote. In the meantime, I think one should at least be able to construct Starbases here, so I'll put that up as a topic. Also, all too often we see Ice and Volcanic planets (which require research to colonize) offering you only 2 resource mines for the trouble of colonizing them. Personally I don't think that PLANETS should have less resources to offer than an asteroid. What do you think?
Magnetic Clouds-
Allow starbase deployment?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 Hrabandur Juletron Howdidudothat Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r CrazyElectron
Nay- Ryat CallenExile EadTaes DesConnor -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician
Ice/Volcanic planets-
Change minimum mines to 3 (currently 2)?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Swordsalmon Ryat Darvin3 Juletron Mindseye Mow Mow EadTaes JSW_Ballz Howdidudothat Warlord Mike Kitkun Ovi_187 -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CrazyElectron
Nay- CallenExile DesConnor DirtySanchezz Hrabandur Agent of Kharma Qu4r
No Changes needed-
ORKULUS STARBASE
This topic is going to be heavy on the debate, and will likely be updated several times with NEW votable options throughout the life of this thread. Now, I think it's safe to say that we're beyond the point of the DEVS making a Vasari Assault cruiser and making the Orky stationary. So if thats what you think should happen thats fine, but it would be more useful for everyone if you hada second opinion on the Orky and voted on the issues below.
Nerf Orkulus-
Increase build penalty in hostile wells? (currently 2.25x unupgraded)
Yay- Greyfox2 Raging Amish(3x) Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Deceiver_0 Cykur Howdidudothat Top Vasari Swordsalmon Ryat anteachtaire LordMechanoid JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike Agent of Kharma DesConnor DirtySanchezz Kitkun Qu4r 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician Qu4r CallenExile
Other-
SB constructors trigger phase monitoring alarm? ("Hostile forces are inbound")
Yay- Mindseye Deceiver_0 Howdidudothat Top Vasari Cykur LordMechanoid Warlord Mike DirtySanchezz Kitkun 52500 Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Chaotic Magician CallenExile CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- JSW_Ballz DesConnor Qu4r
SCOUT FRIGATES
A hotly debated topic right now on the forums, none can deny their increased presence on the MP battlefield. As the cheapest buildable unit in the game, as well as being tier 0, its utility against long ranged frigates has been thoroughly exploited. The question remains, is it balanced? This topic will be split into two sections, a general section for a blanket nerf and a more specific section for interspecies balance. The reason for this is that some think scouts need to be weaker in general, whike other think they need to be balanced on par wtih TEC scouts.
Nerf Scouts-
Decrease hp/shields?
Yay-
Nay- DirtySanchezz Cykur Arthanis
Decrease DPS?
Yay- DirtySanchezz Greyfox2 Mindseye Arthanis
Nay- Cykur
Increase Cost/supply?
Yay- Mindseye Cykur Swordsalmon
Nay- DirtySanchezz Arthanis
No Nerf Needed- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile Chaotic Magician Agent of Kharma Sivcorp 52500 JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron
Balance Scouts-
Decrease Seeker Vessels Hp/shields/armor?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Mow Mow Swordsalmon Darvin3 Ryat Greyfox2 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur Top Vasari LordMechanoid Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat CallenExile
Decrease Seeker Vessels DPS?
Yay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Howdidudothat Greyfox2 Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Wingflier Darvin3 Ryat CallenExile 52500 JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Jikara Navigator cost/supply?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Wingflier Howdidudothat CallenExile 52500 LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Swordsalmon DirtySanchezz Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician JSW_Ballz Cykur Greyfox2 Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Increase Jikara Navigator DPS?
Yay- Mow Mow Swordsalmon Howdidudothat Ryat Chaotic Magician 52500 JSW_Ballz Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- Wingflier DirtySanchezz Darvin3 CallenExile Cykur Greyfox2 LordMechanoid Kitkun
Increase Jikara Navigator hp/shields?
Yay- Mow Mow Darvin3 Ryat Chaotic Magician Sivcorp Top Vasari Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- CallenExile JSW_Ballz Cykur LordMechanoid
No Balance Needed- Agent of Kharma EadTaes DesConnor
RAVASTRA SKIRMISHERS
While the most expensive light frigate in both resources and supply, these ships have the worst DPS per supply. With the recent buff to all light frigs, Cobalts and Disciples are now delivering on the tasks they're meant to, yet skirmishers are still struggling. So what should be done?
Buff Skirmishers-
Increase DPS? Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes DesConnor Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Nay- LordMechanoid
Decrease Supply cost?
Yay- Raging Amish LordMechanoid Hrabandur Qu4r
Nay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow Kitkun -Ue_Carbon CrazyElectron Arthanis
Decrease Resource cost?
Yay- 52500 Warlord Mike
Nay- Darvin3 Cykur Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat DirtySanchezz Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz LordMechanoid lbgsloan Kitkun Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r Arthanis
Adjust Reintegration autocast AI to activate earlier?
Yay- Deceiver_0 Darvin3 52500 Chaotic Magician Top Vasari Howdidudothat Wingflier Swordsalmon Juletron Ryat Sivcorp Runesia DirtySanchezz GreyFox2 Raging Amish CallenExile Mindseye JSW_Ballz Warlord Mike lbgsloan Mow Mow EadTaes Kitkun Agent of Kharma Hrabandur -Ue_Carbon Qu4r CrazyElectron Arthanis
Yeah but subs are tier 5, and distortion field is tier 6. Since illums come at tier 3, well... good luck.
I played a 1v1 against an average player today, who picked advent and spammed illums. I owned substantially more of the map than him, and outplayed him, except I couldn't counter his illums as vasari so eventually gave him the win. In the chatroom he told me not to build flak, but to build enforcers, LOL. I told him that there was 2 problems with this suggestion. First problem, enforcers are tier 5. It's like, you really mean I am expected to counter tier 3 with tier 5? Second problem is that illums actually do a good job against enforcers, LOL. He then told me "yeah, well vasari sucks" and left the chatroom.
yay to the Empire Tree, Personally I just shut the thing down and then only put on what I want, but I rarely play multi and in multi you dont always have that time
nay to fighters
I have some suggestions beside those metioned before for next patch:
Buff overseers jump degradation OR make it stackable (max 10 times becouse unlimited stacking really stops time for incoming fleets)
Decrease cost of 2nd level of colony pods - 2700credits (and lot of resources) for 1,8 income? its just too much. TEC trade ports T2 is much better than these 2 ups and cost twice less.
this is optional but it would be good if eggs colony ability could match the other races in usefullness.
I like these ideas. As for the eggs colonize, I like the build speed increase, but perhaps it should be higher than 20%.
Agree with degradation.Colony pods suck pretty hard unless your in for a long game.
That was my suggestion a while back for degredation. Something like 70% for each overseer (stackable), that way 10 of them get you a mobile PJI, but cap the degredation at 700%.
Other numbers:
- 100% degredation for each overseer, 7 gets you a mobile PJI (I like this better than the above).
- 140% degredation for each overseer, 5 gets you a mobile PJI (I like this the best).
I agree with egg's colonize sucking - either increase the build rate, or perhaps also make it spawn an extra construction frigate?
I agree about polony cods (whoops, there goes my dislexia again).
But there are more critical issues:
MINES - come on, why are we tolerating an expansion pack with a unit that we paid for that we don't use? They are still too expensive, nobody uses them. But worse, you can use the z-axis exploit to go above or below them. Make mines either 1) spawn additional mines up and down along the z-axis, or 2) make each mine's area of influence extend the full length along the z axis, that way you try to go above or below - BOOM and it gets you anyway. This is the better suggestion because it doesn't entail creating more mines for the system to keep track of.
STARBASE BLIND SPOT - intolerable situation, intolerable bug, easy thing to vote on, fix it!!!!
I use vas mines quite frequently and they are really usefull.
And even stackable overseers wont give you PJI. It slows down speed of incoming (phase jumping) ships.
I know stackable overseers won't give you PJI. I'm saying if you upgrade the degredation, it will sort of be the same effect.
Psssst....I play TEC primarily as of late. Take away the bug on the Illumintaor, give it a 10% health nerf, give the seeker 10-20% health nerf, and all of a sudden Advent will seem a whole lot more balanced.
If it's balanced so that the very best players can play all factions 1v1 then put in replays, that's balanced- but to me there's more wrong with Advent than that, the after-debug Illuminator nerf is just to stop the quick crush... The faction needs the phase inhibitor switch to tier 5 and the repair switch to shields just to start to be consistent with the rest of the game, though that isn't enough.
Raging how would you respond with TEC to the Advent tactical problem of a fleet of Colony Ship/Illuminators/Flak or the Halcyon/Illuminators? And how about if they realise that there isn't enough neutrals having explored the map, Navigator crews could switch over from extraction to health repair?
I'm not sure that stacking percentages is either within the current game mechanics, or a viable concept. However, as already stated, the current Overseer phase ability isn't very good at all. How about increasing it to 500%, but with a short duration and long cooldown? Then you could stack it by activating one after the other, though it would require some micro. Wasn't there another thread about abilities that needed work to get them into the game? That should be an element of these requests as well.
The Orkulus trade cost does seem even costlier than the normal extortionate rate for structures. Hangars and turrets don't have phase jump drives, they should be far cheaper than their mobile equivalents. Starbases and their upgrades also cost far too much for multiplayer... with the current dodgy AI they are okay in singleplayer, but if the AI is improved that may well change.
There aren't going to be any tech tree switches. Either way, these issues aren't why Advent seem overpowered. You don't see rampant Advent PJI or repair platform abuse, whatevever that would look like. You see almost-uncounterable illum spam.
Illums aren't just an OP unit. The whole illum spam strat itself is OP from the get-go. I say this because it is EASY to do, but DIFFICULT (at least for vasari) to counter. Anyone can just mindlessly drop 2 mil labs on their homeworld, drop a 3rd on their 'roid, and just start cranking illums - that's why the strat is so phenomenally popular. But not everyone can counter it as easy, or at least vasari can't.
Advent can either counter with their own illums (which illum spammers typically do, because they don't know how to build any other unit), or seekers. But vasari seem screwed to me.
Vote yay for fighters if you dont like lrf or ilum spams.
Maybe the build rate should increase based on level? I could see the egg's colonize being much better if the speed increase was 25/50/75%.
i have to vote nay for fighters. they are good as they are right now. They survive to flack quite well.
_|~Uber
Wow. That is the first time I have seen someone say fighters survive well against flak. You still back in 1.10, uber?
[_]-Greyfox
nope im not back in 1.1
but recently i played a game where i spammed carriers against flack and illums, i managed to keep all his illums down. My fighters were still alive when he got 20 flack, and i only had 24 fighters or so.
I was surprised how well they did, but i creamed him just because he didnt kill any of my ships while i slowly widdled down at his forces.
I also had a skinantra to help but who doesnt now??
Namely advent and tec
Uber if your refering to that replay against rebel guy I dont think it was a fair matchup.He had 8 in eco while you had 2 for awhile.Also he let you kill most of his ilums before he even got flak and only had 6 most of the time.All you did was spam carriers and he didnt build a single lf.Also by the time he had 20 flak you had 40 squads and 2 skiratras and he didnt have more than 10 ilums by that time so ya it was easy to keep his ilums dead.He didnt even keep his ships together.Your eco was so superior to his and he built his ships in the wrong order.
Empire tree: yay
Deciever, you missed my vote on the Starbases (and I have been absent for like a week or two, so I haven't been here to bug you.)
I'm not sure about the Empire tree - I'm not exactly sure what it is you're referring to...
Fighters? Nah. Leave 'em as-is.
Yay to Empire Tree, Yay to fighter toughness increase. Just don't increase their damage.
Yay to fighters by the way. I don't know if an hp or armor adjustment is the best way to do it but they do need some survivability.
Empire tree jumping does my head in, grrrr
I have said before (Maybe on another post...) Fighters are far too fragile a unit to mess with. Even a couple points here and there will make or break them. If they are too weak, the flaw lies with Flak, not fighters. You have to understand that there is no true limit to the number of squadrons fieldable..within reason...meaning they can be ammassed...and should. 1 fighter to 2 bombers.
I have no idea what you mean about phase jumping ships. You mean Phase space monitoring?
He means that there is a section of the empire tree on the left that shows ships that are currently jumping. Since jumping ships are a very fluctuating thing, it causes the empire tree to bounce up and down making it difficult to select something using the empire tree. They are suggesting that it be moved to the bottom of the list so that ideally the list jumps up and down less.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
