Hi!
Since, if I recall correctly, the dev journals have stated that people found the resource system with stored/transported quantities to be un-fun, I've decided to attempt a design with which to replace it, and would like some input.
I decided to start off from the basic design principle that strategic fun is making decisions under scarcity. I also know that the new system needs to be easy to manage, having preferrably no minutiae and minimal UI requirements.
For a decision to be meaningful, making it should have a cost. Different options should be different. There must be a right choice, but which one is right must depend on circumstances. These circumstances might be determined by the map, but should also include the effects of previous choices.
As an example, I use the choice of which metal to use for your troops' equipment.
Options:
1. Copper is common and easy to smelt, but weak.2. Iron is common and better than copper, but is harder to smelt.3. Bronze is better than iron, but requires both copper and tin, with tin being uncommon. Because of the two metal requirement, extra manpower is required.4. Steel is better than bronze, but requires iron, coal and marble. The ingredients aren't too rare, but the manpower and energy requirements are steep.5. Mithril is better than steel, but is really rare.
To implement the creation of these equipment types, requires manpower, resources and time. The cost to your economic development is significant, so you have choose carefully.
Resources aren't stored, any surplus is assumed to be sold to the civilian economy for profit. Also, the resources travel along roads to calculate availability. Building an iron mine, should, for instance, provide one unit of iron. Building an iron foundry (or whatever) then uses up one unit of iron and produces ten units of iron equipment. A barracks that is training a unit with iron swords, and bronze armour would then use e.g. 3 units of iron equipment and 7 units of bronze equipment. If other buildings are already using a resource up, that makes it impossible to create a building/unit that uses that resource.
All metal smelting requires coal, which can either be mined directly, or can be made from wood. Copper needs less/no coal and steel requires coal for each step of its production. This emulates the difficulty of smelting the different ores.
To simulate manpower, each building reserves a proportion of the city's population to work in that building. If the population is decreased to below the reserved level, buildings are destroyed appropriately/randomly or something. Unemployed people should pay a negative amount of taxes to simulate crime, so that you cannot just save them up until you know what the best choice is, or to act as a buffer to population loss. This system can replace the current city-levelx2 = usable tiles system.
It takes time to build all this infrastructure, so you cannot at a whim just switch from bronze to iron, for instance. It will take several turns to get the new economy up and running, meanwhile you cannot produce bronze or iron. Something to do in times of peace, not times of war.
As an example to prove the significance of these choices, take the following scenario: You find a source of tin, and have already found copper. You know iron is common and tin is uncommon, so, if you decide to use bronze, you might not find more tin, and as you expand your limited amount of bronze could become a liability. If you decide to go with iron in stead, you will probably have to break down your copper economy though.
Now, I guess this sounds complicated, but to show how simple it is, I explain the most complicated material;s process from a user's perspective:
1. I have unemployed people.2. I have two iron, one coal and one marble available.3. I build a coal mine, two lumber mills and a marble quarry.4. I build two wood furnaces to turn wood into coal.5. I build two iron mines, which uses two coal to produce two iron.6. I build a steelworks, which uses two iron, one coal and one marble to produce 20 steel equipment.7. Now can tell two barrackses to train my Fist of Steel elite troopers at the same time, or I can tell four barrackses to train pikeneers at the same time.
If you lose a mine, the closest active smithy to it should deactivate. If you recapture a mine, the closest non-active smithy to that mine should reactivate automatically. This causes that to reclaim the manpower, so that you can do something else with it, you will have to dismantle the building yourself. An inactive building should have black in place of your national colour, so that you can easily see the status. (That would unfortunately mean that black cannot be a national colour.) There should also be a notification in the turn report, of course.
With regards to the UI: the only extra displays are a resource availability panel for the city, and the inactive building colour-change. There are no extra input interfaces required.
I believe I have shown clearly that my design is simple to use, gives interresting choices, and requires minimal UI to manage.
If you see any flaws (from a gameplay perspective) I'd like to know of it. Maybe we can modify it subtly to fix it.
I like this quite a bit. The change I would make is the ability to build warehouses to store resources (you choose what your warehouse stores) in case you wish to build up a strategic reserve or drive up the price. That warehouse can be burned, broken into, robbed and stock can also be embezzeled... but from that warehouse comes the ability to trade resources with other nation or store resources against hard times.
Other than that small change I think that the economic system you propose is not only workable, but has the potential to be quite fun! Have some Karma.
looks like an interesting idea.
One detail though: Iron is stronger than bronze, iron also require a higher tech to use
Wood furnaces to turn wood into coal? Sounds like Dwarf Fortress to me.
@Ivan: I've read up on bronze. Bronze is harder than iron and requires less maintenance, but iron has the advantage that it is much more common. I was favoring gameplay over realism anyway. According to various sources, iron replaced bronze because it was cheaper and good enough. Wikipedia confirms my sources.
@MagicwillNZ: The wood furnace was in fact inspired by Dwarf Fortress. DF's way matches with my knowledge of real life on that subject. Coal can be mined and refined to coke, or wood can be charred to form charcoal.
@Iwarmonger: The reason why I excluded warehouses was to simplify the user interface and decrease the micromanagement. I understand wanting the extra options they would provide, but I think the game will have enough complexity as it is.
On the one hand, this seems pretty standard for a Civ-style strategy game. And for some reason, I really like the idea of being able to outfit my troops with Bronze swords The Bronze Age is sadly underappreciated. I'd similarly enjoy being able to field troops with Aztec-style swords made from Ironwood and Obsidian.
But my preferences for quirky weapons aside, I do sort of question whether a fantasy game like Elemental really needs this sort of thing. Games like Civilization include the transition from Stone age to Modern technology because they're loosely based on the historical development in the real world. In Elemental, you're rebuilding after a magical cataclysm - progress is not a matter of rediscovering Fire or The Wheel, but of rebuilding civilization and making the world around you habitable again.
I could be off base here, but the impression I got was that research in this game was along the lines of making 'A Better Sword' rather than necessarily following the chain from Bronze to Steel (and from Swords to Guns, or whatever). It was also mentioned to be open-ended, so does each level of research represent a specific technological advancement, or is it generic?
Furthermore, if I lose a resource, it randomly destroys one of my facilities? Why? If I build a smithy, it's still going to be there even if I run out of metal - I might be able to still operate by trading for metal with another nation, but at worst it's just going to shut down. Having my buildings randomly blow up because I lose control of a resource doesn't seem very fun to me.
On the other hand, I do like the idea of population as a resource very much. Brad mentioned something about that in regards to troops, but it's equally applicable for having people to work in your city facilities.
The building doesn't need to be destroyed per se, but something has to indicate that the building is not being used anymore, and that people are unemployed because of this.
The idea with my system is not to represent progress from stone to steel, or whatever, but rather to allow the player to adapt his/her economy to the situation he/she finds. If you don't have iron, you should be able to adapt to it by using something else, or by being more diplomatic, or trading with an ally etc.
This system also increases the value of resources, so, if you are playing on a resource-poor world, the guy with iron has a distinct advantage, but the other players could focus on archery or something to make up for that.
In the Dark Sun novels by Troy Denning, the city-state of Tyr used iron to great advantage, while some other city used their obsidian to recruit a powerful monster to help them, making them equally matched. This sounds a bit like Elemental to me.
EDIT:
I remembered my reason for destroying the buildings. My reason was that otherwise you would need an interface to switch buildings on and off. I thought about it some more now, and realise that this is not necessary.
If you recapture a mine, the closest non-active smithy to that mine should reactivate automatically. If you lose a mine, the closest active smithy to it should deactivate. An inactive building should have black in place of your national colour, so that you can easily see this. There should also be a notification in the turn report, of course. (That would unfortunately mean that black cannot be a national colour.)
I will change my original post to reflect the new idea.
Thanks for your critique.
It sounds like the economy that they are planning to put in is in some ways similar to this idea. We'll just have to wait and see.
I suppose I could always mod it in after the game is released, if the system chosen is not similar enough.
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