I just felt an overwhelming urge to say that.
What's wrong with that? (referring to the first post).
Going by your graph you just have to pre-order the collectors edition and you get all...
Retailer exclusive items are just a minor things, I wouldn't care much which one I get.
Lo
Where did you read that? That's certainly not what's being said about the game on any site I've been reading.
No kidding. If you die you get a permanent disability to your character until you perform a quest or have the right spell/ability to rid yourself of it. And from what I've read, every choice you make effects how the world reacts to you and how the storyline plays out.
Sounds like you're not listening, to me. They had teams working on the main game and the DLC, as in working on the DLC before the game was even finished. Before they polished the game, before they gave it their all. In my book, that's just not okay. Working on "extra" should be done when the game is finished, or damn near finished. Pushing it back several months is not finished.
Hey you think its trivial; you think its fluff; you don't mind corporate greed, good for you. Buy the game, enjoy it but don't pretend you have some sort of higher morale ground for doing it and that you can read the mind of those of us who don't want to see this money grab for every game released henceforth.
The only thing I think is fluff are these extra goodie items for pre-ordering from various stores. They are frankly just garbage things that marketing is tossing out there and to get all upset over those seem silly.
I still don't get the big deal on the DLC, one is free with all versions, the other is free with digital deluxe.
I take no "high morale" ground in anything. I am buying this game because there hasn't been a good RPG in a decade outside of the Elder Scrolls series (and those are only partial RPG) and this appears to be right up the alley as to the type of game I like. All this griping about the DLC's and extra goodies is just noise. If effects me not since I know what the deal is and it's not costing me any more money or anything. I will buy and enjoy the game, not complain about stuff that isn't worth complaining about other then to just complain.
Yeah people who are not able to respect the opinions of others, are not worth conversing with and don't add anything to discussions. Have fun!
This is also my issue with DLC, and it's becoming more and more common as DLC becomes more accepted and popular. The biggest offender so far is easily Resident Evil 5, which has a multiplayer mode paid DLC pack (at least on Xbox 360) which was a surprisingly small download... until it was discovered it's merely a piece of code to unlock something which was already on the disc.Releasing the game in parts and expecting people to pay for them individually might work in episodic games - which are by nature shorter and cheaper than retail releases - however in my opinion having paid DLC available at release is milking your fans because the work is done, it's finished and it could quite easily be included on the retail disc - the only reason it's not included is profit, and this is the reason why EA Games is very unpopular because they don't treat their fans very well, and it's fans who pay a little more for a little more to play.If this is acceptable behaviour, how long will it be before we see games released at retail in incomplete forms with the rest available for purchase online? Imagine if Halo 2's Cliffhanger ending could have only resolved by downloading an additional piece of DLC? It would still have sold like Hot Cakes because of the popularity of Halo, regardless of the unethical behaviour behind it. It might seem like a stretch, but companies like EA Games aren't seeing any fallout from doing it - it still sells, and reviewers still give high scores. Why wouldn't they do it?
This isn't the case for Dragon Age. The Warden's Keep DLC could not be included on the disc due to content lockdown. If you choose not to believe that, that's fine, but that's the way it is.
As for teams working on the DLC before the game was done, that's not the case either. The DLC teams were put together once the game was finished (or in its final phases). The only reason DLC is ready on day one is because of the delay in release (which was done to coincide with the console release).
I honestly don't see what the big deal is in this particular case. Sure, if game companies start releasing games in an unfinished state and you have to buy DLC just to be able to finish the game, I'll complain too and what's more I'll stop buying from that company. But there's no grand conspiracy here with Dragon Age to try to sell you an incomplete game or to milk your wallet of every last penny.
Fair enough, or at least I see where you are coming from. However, let's see how clean of a release Dragon Age is. I had NWN 1 on release day and it shipped unplayable out of the box. If DA is full of bugs, and seems bare, then there is no excuse, no matter how they word it, for DLC. Also, since when did we as gamers actually believe what publishers say? They have a history of lying to fans only to be caught later, especially EA.
I was saying the same thing that Coelocanth said, I guess I just didn't do it very well. But yea, the only reason there are DLC on release day is because the game itself was delayed 6 months. Separate development team worked on the DLC as well. Bioware has explained all this on their forums and I trust Bioware a whole lot more then EA which I trust about as far as I can throw them which isn't that far.
In the end though, it is what it is and we can't change it. We either accept it or reject it and make a purchasing decision based on that. Personally most games I just wait until there is a "game of the year" edition to buy, like Fallout 3 which I plan to get in a month or so, so that it includes all the released content and cheaper. Dragon Age though is one of the few games I'm going to buy on release and thus at full price. We'll see if that's a mistake or not in a month or so.
Happy gaming!
The only reason why it's included in the Digital Deluxe version is they are giving it away free because you don't get the collector's tin, cloth map and DVD extra that you'd get if you buy the boxed retail of the Collector's Edition. It's actually nice so that digital customers who are paying the same price at least get something to make up for not getting the physical goodies. If it weren't for getting Warden's Keep coming free with DD I would just get the regular version.
I agree 100% with you on that.
But it's not the publisher saying this, it's the BioWare devs. I've had great experiences with BioWare and I trust the devs. Publishers? Not so much.
I haven`t read every post here, I do have some thought`s on this though.
Offering "exclusive" item`s for pre-order`s sounds like a good idea. From what I`ve read, They won`t be all powerful or unbalacing item`s. Just unique item`s that are very limited, Most likely not even be noticed if U never had them.
It`s a nice "carrot" to get people to pre-order.
DLC on release day is a different matter. This is a terrible idea, Someone in marketing should be fired for this. This gives the player the idea that the company is holding back content for PPV(PayPerView). I`m more inclined to wait for the "gold" or "platinum" version then pay full price on release day.
This whole problem could have been avoided by holding back the DLC for 3 months. Release it at a point when the community wanted it, Not when they don`t.
EDIT
Sorry for the double post?!?
I was going to buy this. Not anymore.
I hate pre-order exclusives. Thankfully the next game I'm getting (Tekken 6) the pre-order exclusive is so horrendous I don't want it (Penny Arcade doesn't do it for me.)
But the community does want it - or a large portion of it does.
They can't win. If it was ever found out they held back DLC that could have been available on day 1, they'd still get bitching that they cut content to sell later. Absolutely a no-win situation for them. I say they may as well release it day one with an explanation of why it's available so early. If people choose to think the devs are lying to them, then they're probably not customers anyway.
Arstal, I don't understand: are you saying you're not buying Dragon Age becasue of the pre-orer exclusives, but another game that offers pre-order exclusives is fine by you because you don't like that particular exclusive content? If so, I don't see the logic there.
It pains me to see that people don't feel swindled by DLC that's released on game day. It doesn't matter if the game was delayed, and it's not about any amount of lying. It seems very low brow that you can buy a brand new game on release day and be missing out on content. The team working on the DLC was going along just fine, maybe they should have been working on the original game in the first place instead of the newest nickle and dime craze to hit the consumer market?
The pre-order exclusives are just a sad money grab for opening day. I'm willing to bet they're just access codes, and each item is available in every game. It also pains to me to see a game that I've been looking forward to, from a company that makes games I enjoy, dressed up and pimped out.
I will still most likely buy the game, but not on release day, and probably when the local target puts it on clearance for 1/3 the price.
One last note. I read that they plan to have two years of DLC. How many DLC do you think that is? How much will each DLC be? Fallout 3 had 5 DLC's, and some people paid $120 for that game and all of it's extra content. Is that game worth that much? Would you spend $200 on Dragon Age? Would you spend more? Or is that a huge amount of money to waste on a video game? I for one do not enjoy my super-sized video games for double the price for a quarter more content....
I almost did not purchase this game when I read about the "deluxe" version and all the stupid retail exclusives. I am already not happy with EA and if they continue to anger their customers I will simply do without any of the games that they publish.
I preordered this on Impulse just because I don't care about any of those exclusive items - and I like Stardock.
It's sad that all new games nowadays have to have those ridiculous DLCs... For me, most of the time, the DLC is just a terribly overpriced micro-expansion that gets boring too fast. I only accept full-fledged expansions. Such things bring enough of new features which fit better into the game than all those DLCs.
I can only hope that they will release some lower-price bundle packs, so that I can enjoy the additional content.
Why would you *have* to buy the DLCs? srsly. For me, Fallout 3 is an RPG with a level cap of 20 and an ending you can't continue playing the game after, if those who spent >$100 on it have a different experience its not *MY* problem as I judged the content already there to be worth the $25 I paid for it.
For all of you complaining about DLC being little more than overpriced extras to "nickel and dime" their customers, then simply *DON'T BUY IT*. If you don't like the product that's being sold to you at $50, *DON'T PAY FOR IT*, don't just go and buy it then complain about all the other things you had to buy as well to feel "complete". Pure, unfettered capitalism, if you like the product pay for it and if you don't, don't but these poorly-conceived arguments to demand free access to content the developers never intented to be so are helping nobody.
And, personally, I feel I must retract my comments about this game. While I don't like the trend of offering game-unbalancing items as DLC/Deluxe/pre-order bonuses, I thought the game had a form of multiplayer where such unbalances would prevent "normal" owners from playing competitively against the "premium" customers, but I was wrong and the game is strictly a solo affair much like Fallout 3, and therefore the balance is completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Wow, what an incredibly new and amazing perspective .......
Now if only there was a way to publicly write down your thoughts, valid points, and opinions in the hopes that someone else might read them at a later date and agree with you. Then perhaps they would vote with their wallets too and the whole would prosper! What a dream! Perhaps one day it will happen. One day.
Who said anything about having to buy them? You're not quite understanding the point of this thread, which is probably why you see the arguments as poorly conveived. If you don't like our complaints about products that feel like a scam or rip off, or our disappointment with the video game industry trends, then *DON'T READ THEM*. No one is forcing you too. You're assuming that we're buying up all of the DLC and crying about it. You missed the point entirely. I'm not demanding anything. I'm saying that it should be free, since they spent so much time a resources on it before the game was even finished. I'd rather have a bug free game that got the attention it deserved, and then gotten a DLC later, than a constantly delayed game pushed so far back that the DLC guys got to wrap up production and then help out. Because of that fact, I'm not going to buy the game until it's on clearance.
I don't buy DLC or microexpansions if they don't seem like they're worth what is charged for them. I don't complain about the ones I do buy unless they were misleading. I do complain when things leave an ill taste in my mouth, like DLC available on opening day. Voting with you wallet is a great way to get what you want, however, having other people vote with their wallets works too. It is however *YOUR* problem if DLC doesn't turn for the better, because you will end up finding games that are worthwhile and have a decent amount of content rare, and games that are turn out to be nothing more than advanced demos where during development, the developers pulled half the features and ideas for the sole reason of charging you $100 dollars for the game instead of just $50.
Hopefully someone who doesn't mind spending 10 dollars on a quick DLC will realize that they paid 120 dollars for a video game and didn't get much more out of it than the the 50 dollar release, and especially nowhere near as much as if the game had been given an actual expansion. DLC could be a great way to expand games, or it can just be what it mostly is now, a cash cow directed at the masses who gladly make impulse decisions and demand instant gratification without much after thought or lasting appreciation.
One would hope that, if you were looking for a way to write down your thoughts and show them to the public, you'd be looking for *disagreement*, to better explore your own position rather than a chorus of "yeah man!". And I'm here to provide that.
If you aren't, then there's no point in arguing that Fallout 3 costs $120 or wondering about how much Dragon's Age will cost. You're deliberately adding the price of the DLC to the base game, which only makes sense *if* you're planning on buying them already.
So you're not demanding anything, you're just demanding them to make the DLC available for free. Riiiiight. And just because they DARED spend time on a separate project while working on YOUR game. Do you also ask Valve to give you free copies of Half-Life 2, HL2:Ep1, HL2:Ep2 and Portal just because you bought a copy of Team Fortress 2? you would've had a point if they deliberately advertised features that'd only work with paid-for DLC (for instance, Fallout 3 as having a level cap of 30) but I've yet to see it happen.
Having DLC or not doesn't have *anything* to do with the stability of a game at launch. Read up on The Mythical Man-Month for an intro on "why adding more people to a project doesn't make it happen sooner or in a better shape". Or just work in software development in, well, anywhere
That's been going on forever, its just they were called "expansion packs" back in my day. Or just "sequels". Then came the "Director's Cut" and "Extended" editions, and now we have DLC. So? as before, buy it if the content is worth it, skip it if it isn't, but the complaining is both useless and unjustified.
Wrong. I could easily name a dozen expansions that didn't do *crap* for the underlying game other than fragmenting the MP community (anything by Blizzard, for instance), whereas at least most DLC has the decency of a) being cheap, and not fragmenting the MP community between "normal" and "premium" users. So again, your rant is unjustified, there's nothing inherently wrong about DLC nor any inherent benefit to holding off for a big, full-priced expansion.
The only one I see ranting here is you. The rest of us are discussing the concepts of DLC. It's right up there with microtransactions in my book. They're not asking for a few bucks, they are asking for 7 and then they'll be asking for 10 and then we'll see microtrans (already have seen micros with things like oblivion and horse armor). At some point, there you're weighing the cost of this game against other games, and for me, that's not acceptable. I am not willing to do it. It might "offend" that I am not willing to accept the price of the game, the whole game but that's what it is. I have few issues with expansion packs for games I enjoy, and normally I have enjoyed them to a point that I am willing to buy the expansion pack AND consider it worth the amount they are charging. I dont' buy every expansion pack willy nilly either, and i rarely pay full retail price for a game anyway. I don't like the trend, and I am willing to say so and discuss it and give my reasons why I don't care for it.
In the long run, I think the dev's are extremely proud of Dragon Age and that their pricing is reasonable, if anything cheap as hell considering the blood sweat and 800,000 words of dialogue. I for one trust this mob, they've got a healthy pedigree, but by hell this is a bad look, reminds me of the Edison/Tesla deal. At the core you've got a creative bunch of humans weaving all kinds of magic, surrounded by a bunch of parasites whose job it is to bread roll this sucker as thin as humanly possible so that they can sell individual biscuits as many ways as possible.
I'm sure it's rational, good business and "just the way the market is," but I'm with the OP...it sux balls.
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