I’m getting overexposed. I’m as narcissistic as the next guy who refers to themselves in the third person in the name of an article and even I am not that interested in my opinions.
At PAXX I gave an interview to Shacknews primarily on Elemental but we talked about all kinds of other things including my thoughts on Games for Windows Live.
It’s no secret that I’ve been an advocate for Games for Windows Live. But over time, a handful of the emerging policies have come up that came to a head when I was asked directly about it.
The particular GFWL show-stopper I have had is having to have your app go through any sort of approval process before being updated. On the console, that makes perfect sense, particularly with regards to a universal achievement system. But on the PC, where we have to make updates for reasons beyond our control, that’s a problem.
For example, on Windows Vista last week, Microsoft released an update that broke WindowBlinds on Vista. We were able to fix it and get an update out in less than 24 hours. But imagine if we had had to go through some approval process at Microsoft?
Then there is the issue of being charged for these updates. To date, Microsoft hasn’t charged anyone to do an update but it’s been made pretty clear to me that that there would be a limited number of “free updates”. I don’t want to go through an approval process with a third party to put up an update to my software.
But I do love the concept of Games for Windows Live. I like the idea of the platform owner (Microsoft) having a series of services available to be used. I’d even pay for it. I don’t want to have to worry about match making and network connectivity. Anyone who was part of the Demigod launch knows the pain it can be to work out that sort of thing. But using such services shouldn’t mean that they gain some control over my updates.
All of Stardock’s recent titles and new games use Games for Windows (not GFWL). I very much like the program of there being some standardization for game developers to adhere to and don’t mind going through an initial certification. It is the post-release update certification I object to as well as the potential of having to pay for it unless the value add was far greater than what it is today.
I wasn’t intending to “slam” GFWL. I simply could not abide by the current model of GFWL and hope/think they will change it as it evolves. Hopefully all my friends at MS won’t beat me next time I’m over visiting.
Related Articles:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/95194-Stardock-CEO-Dishes-on-Sales-Numbers-GFW-Live-and-More
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/10/05/stardock-slams-games-for-windows-live/1
http://www.co-optimus.com/article/2713/Stardock_CEO_Reveals_the_Truth_of_Digital_Distribution_and_the_Industry.html
http://www.destructoid.com/brad-wardell-on-gfwl-you-can-t-do-that-on-the-pc--150639.phtml
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/11923-microsoft-charging-devs-for-games-for-windows-live-patches/
I tried Steam once and ran from it as fast as I could. I currently have a copy of Counter Strike Source that I did not really like much but my lack of interest in this particular game pailed in comparison to the dislike I had for Steam do to the time it took to install and update thru the Steam UI. It was a nightmare that lasted several hours only to be disappointed by the game (just my personal opinion) not to mention I was only able to play 1 of the 3 demo type games that came with it because 2 of them never really finished updating and Steam would not let me play them till they were done.
What's even worse is that I can't even give the dam thing away because it's connected to me now thru the Steam account. Feels like having one of those worthless AOL CD's you get thru mail except I paid $20 for it.
Impulse has it's ups and downs with me. On the plus side having one central place to install all my Stardock stuff is great, but at the same time needing to have Impulse open to run any of the programs is having one too many screens oopen on my PC and one to many programs running. Of course I could simply search for the individual short cuts within the Start Up Menu but I wouldn't mind having the software give you the option of wanting a shortcut install on the desktop for those programs you use most often. For me it would be Tweak7 (before was TweakVista). I like using it when I game to close any unnecessary services and programs but find it bit annoying that not only do I have to run Impulse first, but wait for it to login and then run Tweak7 amd then close both. Kinda a few extra steps I would really like to avoid. Of course the shortcut can fix that. All in all Impulse is pretty good.
As for GFWL, I had not heard of it till now and probably don't own any games with it though i could be wrong since my Call Of Duty World At War is a GFW game. Judging by the comments here I am not sure I want to even try it out.
You do not need Impulse running to use any app installed through it, and there's an option to create (automatically or after a prompt) desktop shortcuts on install in the prefs.
I have dealt with several games that have GFWL. Some of the earlier ones like Fallout 3 weren't a big deal. It installs it's GFWL BS, but then you can forget about it. Never had to start it or login/create account to play the game. Note, that I don't play multiplayer so I never had to deal with that part.
Then along comes the likes of GTAIV. What a pain in the ass just to play a singleplayer game. You have to creat this account and that account and link something called a gamertag to someother unwanted BS known as Rockstar Social club.
I picked GTA up on the cheap, so it was more of an impulse buy without research. I would of passed had a I known the crap involved.
In a way though I think GTA saved me some PITA with Red Faction:Guerrilla and Batman Arkham Asylum. Since I already had the former setup, I avoided the same mess with the others. They just automatically login to GFWL upon start. Still a no-no for playing single player, but not unexpected nowadays. My main Beef now is that I have to totally turn off ZoneAlarm or most GFWL games won't start(even adding them to exceptions won't help).
Needless to say all the above games are now cracked to do away with as much of the GFWL BS as I can and still be able to play and I won't be spending money for anymore of that BS. You want to sell me a game fine. If you want to sell me a pile shit attached to it, then I'll just use other means to aquire it with BS removed.
GFWL promotes piracy, nice going MS.
Good thing about Fallout 3 is, that you can bypass GfWL with the perfectly legal Fallout Script Extender, or FOSE, that works even with the Steam version. (It's Oblivion counterpart, OBSE had some trouble, until the folks at Valve patched their Oblvion distribution to allow it to work )
Really? Normally I double-click the program on Impulse and say yes to install and I don't get another menu till it's done and thats only if it needs to reboot the system or something. It has never given me the basic options of an installation such as where to install, if I want shortcuts or not or anything like that. How do I get shortcuts, thru Impulse? There are still many features of Impulse I have not tried yet.
Almost all my gaming is done online. I am not an average user. If I run into a problem, when I do, I can figure it out. It could take 15 minutes, it could take a few hours. I am willing to put up with that shit to play my games. Guess what the consoles don't have to worry about much... It's a comparison thing. Compared to the consoles, playing games on the PC is a pain in the ass and it does not work "very well", it just works. Sometimes, you gotta hve a assistance. I don't know where your anger is coming from though or why you have to assume the problems that are encountered are internal. Hell Brad has said they had to fix some of their games because of changes made by third parties. What you think third party programs affecting games is exclusive to Stardock titles or something?. And maybe I don't understand how GFWL works, but my experience has been if we are using a server and not connecting directly to our computers, routers aren't an issue. Firewalls can be. You sound like you know a few things about gaming, but I don't think pc gaming should be an exclusive club to only people who have that kind of knowledge.
If you go into the Impulse settings, there are options to tell it where to install games, and to create a desktop icon, or not. Some things go into the Start Menu on their own (Demigod for example installs itself into the Games Explorer in Vista, there's no need to start Impulse to run it.)
No Anger here i may have opened the statment a bit strongly but i have no ill intentions towards stardock .. only fustration at the perception that pc gaming is difficult .
the reference to demi god is in response to others using demigod as an example of how difficult on line pc gaming can be.
i feel that it was a unjust comparison. my argument that previous games have had successful multiplayer like age of empires and diablo is just that examples that pc online gaming works very well .
The majority of time something breaks is as you stated when a third party does something goofy and it all comes crashing down. . The point being that game for windows live does nothing to address any of the problems listed here.
third party apps will still break pc's.
problematic routers will still break networking .
double firewall issues will still cause massive headaches for the entire software industry.
these problems are beyond the power of game for windows live to fix. at best the only thing game for windows live can do is give you a message that says HAY SOMETHING IS BROKEN ..
i will have to admidt that would be better than the cryptic or non existance message you would get if something like counterstrike could not find any available servers.
However that is not all Game for windows Live needs to address to become an accepted standard for online pc gaming.
The direction that microsoft has taken with GFWL has not been in the direction of improving pc gaming . To clarify, microsft holds all the cards they have the technolgy, man power, and money . Therefore there is no reasons why GFWL could not be a radical platform that makes pc gaming AWESOME.
As it stands to day the only thing holding back Game for Windows Live is Microsoft.
Oh I didn't read it as anger towards stardock so much as anyone who has a problem with online gaming on a PC isn't worth noting. You already said it was more strongly worded than intended though.
Age of Empires I & II were awesome, but I wasn't behind a router with either of those. Later I tried II again and that was an issue or maybe it was Age of Mythology. One of those behaved very oddly behind a router to the point of a lot of boards covering the problem. And by behind a router i mean usually its me and two people behind the same router so they look like they are coming from the same IP address and some older gmes have an issue with that. I am far from a networking expert but that's the issue as we understood it.
With the way they are making 360 and PS3 as mini computers, they could easily start running into these issues too, I know. For now though, you give a kid a PS3, Xbox or even a Wii, it's very simple to set it up. PC's aren't even that easy to setup when you are working with an internal network, playing LAN.
All I can comment on GFWL is my impressions as I have never had to use it and have no desire to do so.
I just think that gaming on the PC is more complicated than it needs to be. It is not exactly user friendly. I mean I get a game, install it, spend time on the forums looking at all the possible issues with nVidia, Ati, maybe specific firewall issues, gotta figure out what ports to open or hell, just open them all. I own a Wii too, you know what I did to play Mario cart? I put in the disk, worked with that stupid friend's code system and just started playing. I prefer PC games for a lot of reason, but it was nice to just be able to buy and go.
I actually have to thank GFWL. I refused to buy Dawn of War 2 because of the 'double DRM' it made you go through to play. This turned out to be a good thing as the general concensus is that DOW2 wasn't a very good game. I will never understand why THQ thought requiring Steam AND GFWL to play online was a good idea.
That said, I don't mind GWFL TOO much as I can still play single player game offline. I only need to connect for multiplayer, which is no different from having to connect to Battlet.net to play Starcraft online. I do disagree with the 'account lock' thing. There is no good reason (for the consumer at least) why my key should be forever locked to my account. It should check my key once when I first connect, and then that's that. All this is the attempt by publishers to try and cut out the ability to resell games.
I'm glad the GFWL system isn't being overly embraced, as doing so will lead to games not even belonging to us at all. We'll just be 'borrowing the rights' one day.
Whenever there is a good title that has Games for Windows Live on it, I am installing it with very low expectations. Even with trepidation. Sure the game itself could probably be very good. But the Games for Windows Live experience for me is an extremely buggy one. I have yet to experience an install that went smoothly. Typically an update of GFWL fails, then you have to go to forums look for registry hacks, directory junctions and what not. I do not trust Microsofts testing for PC games at all. And then for them to certify an update it's a joke. Or like with Gears of War (PC), the GFWL just went ahead and lost all my game saves, brilliant. After that I really didn't feel like to continue with that game. I should have returned it. Or don't expect Windows Easy Transfer to actually transfer downloaded addons to your new harddisk or pc. At least you can download them again manually. Also do not allow "consolitis savus locatis" on the pc, if I need to quit, I want to start where I was not redo the whole level again...
Pheew, sorry had to get that out...
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