Well having played sins, i was really looking forward to the "Balances" coming with entrenchment...
But i find that the culture is still not anywhere near effective enough to be even slightly viable.
Returning armarda has not been changed to have a limit and remains completely broken and abusable.
Being honest, the starbases are not even slightly blanced and are completely game BREAKING.
The vasari deflector shield damage reduction is just a joke and its ability to be built from a colony ship is insane.
Having thourghly play tested all of the starbases myself now, i can say that when you have a fleet of 20 heavy crusiers wiped out by one star base its not playable.
even more of a bad joke is when 20 cruisers specialised at killing structures cannot kill a starbase lol.
Not to mention the asteroid ability completely stoping all fleets in their tracks.
A star base backed up by hanger bays full of fighters and asteroid swarm is completely invulnrable!! ooh but they even gave those very same hanagr bays shield restore as well!!
A starbase supported by repair platfroms is sick, and the TEC starbase is complety lame compared to the other 2..... its self destruct ability does not even do any damage to anything.. its completely bugged.
pleeeeeeeeeaase BALANCE THE GAME i did not pay for a game that hasn't been play tested.
feel free to correct me if you feel this is not acurate I am a VERY unhappy customer.
lol I was the one attacking that SB. Entire fleet gone in a blink of an eye. LVL 2 protocol takes out everything but caps and other SBs
FYI. If the attacking fleet has lots of bombers/ships, they can potentially take it out before final protocol activates. Takes like 3 secs.
i think juletron should change his name to juletroll spy satelites, nuclear bombs and aircraft csrriers really really outdate sun tzu. just because the army use his tactics doesn't make it correct.
Also jule you don't suggest anything of use, other then refering me to other people's posts, so i conclude you don't actually know anything :/ saying "so much is wrong i don't know where to begin" is wimping out massively, if so much really is wrong are you saying your really couldn't even point out one thing?
as for us all agreeing on what "mid game" is, thats a good point. You all seem to be talking about massive galaxies if you got that kind of econimc power in the middle stages of a game.
Further balance to starbases.. they need to cost fleet supply! omg why do they not.. i completely missed this fsct as well.
Although most of you seem to favour bombers.. starbases can field so many fighters that it really wont help you unless you got alot more then 40 bombers. And if the starbase is being repaired by anything you wont get anywhere.
I think they are game breaking and tedious.
You all seem to think they are very balanced and fun.
co-habitation isn't going to happen here.
Alas, maybe it is just me as noone else seems to be having trouble on the scale i am. Sigh ^^ guess i will go back to Moo2.
Much appreciated for your time tho. Bit disapointed i didn't figure this out but i don't think there is anything you can suggest to fix what i see is wrong with the game. still, 20 days til tekken 6
Erm..please, post your regular startup routine. If anything can help you that will - most of us can easily find what might be a flaw in that. I'm sure you're doing something that unintentionally handicaps you.
hey stupidolpin, if you think that the standard starbases are tough, you should try my megasb's with 6 weapon upgrades, 6 toughness upgrades 6 hangar upgrades, 2-3 trade upgrades, and can have a total of 24 installed upgrades, and I can attack and destroy sb's in 3 gws (using 1/3 fllet cap in each flleet) at a time with full fleet cap, atmittedly I do like to have the fleets on local area and with even numbers of each frigate/cruiser type and at least 5 caps usually 1 coll cap 2 battleship 2 dradnaught, the fleet will destroy a sb (26000 hull 26 armour 20000 shield and these numbers are from the info sheets in game) in about 3-4 minutes with a defending fleet, the only alterations to my ships is a small increase in the numbers of sc for caps and carriers ONLY, and the only starbases that have proven to be any tougher were in the startrek mod a month ago after I had let them build up the bases for about 10 hours while I was at work, and they did take a large fleet to kill.
I might lose about 10 ships in the demolition of 2 or 3 sbs with these fleets.
I suspect that you just have not found a suitable set of tactics that work for you yet
harpo
capital ship bay
2 scouts
carrier capital ship + fighters
4 frigates
civilian research lab X2 research volcanic or ice depending
upgrde homeworld population limit
in general:
each time world is captured build extractors and upgrade population to nulify cost.
build one spaceport in each system
one culture structure per 2 systems
scout enemy systems to find what their foreces mostly consist of and begin to build counter ships (flak to carriers, heavy cruisers to capital ships and lrm to turtle)
look for a bottle neck and place starbase.
proceed to end of tech tree following whatever strategy that race does best.
Don't take my earlier post personally, I apologise if I offended you, but some advice: next time assume that you are doing something wrong rather then say the game is screwed. That way people on the forums will have greater respect and may even point out to you that it is the game that is screwed up, not you.
Also, Sun Tzu talked about the fundementals of war so technology doesn't make his tactics obselete, it only changes the way that they are implemented. For example, laying proper plans and manouvring skillfully are always important.
From that startup list, I wonder if you're not making enough carrier cruisers. Yes, starbases can make plenty of strike craft but they are limited. Sending an assault with five or more carrier cruisers stocked with fighters will likely make you life much easier. Keep your bombers docked until the fighters have had a pass or two. At that point, you can send out bombers to unleash their own brand of torment on the starbase.
Also, I usually want to micro attacks on starbases. Keep your frigates & cruisers far away from the starbases - have them tie up the enemy fleet and engage the structures that are out of range of its big guns, unless you've got anti-structure cruisers. Have them wipe out hanger defenses and help with the starbase.
Furthermore, depending on your own style, many people find that using a colonizer cap ship is often a good first cap as it saves you the expense of building a colony ship at the very beginning when funds are tight. Speaking of which, don't bother upgrading your homeworld unless you've got resources to burn - you hit a point of diminishing returns. Also, when you get new planets I would suggest upgrading new planets' populations only to the point that you're not facing a tax (again, boost them further later in the game when you've got tons of resources. In addition, if you put of your first planetary improvements into a tactical upgrade, you get an extra constructor that will help considerably.
Also, as has been noted try to advance quickly to the point where you can make trade centers for each of your planets. One part of winning battles is getting the right fleet in the right place and having them use the correct tactics, while the other is being able to properly support it - which should be a part of your overall strategy. You really need to use some kind of trade set up up to do that most efficiently.
Experience is also something that will help - when you get to know your own strengths and weaknesses, as well as those of your enemies, you can face numerous pitfalls that troubled you before without any worry. I would think that microing might be your weakness, as 20 anti-structure cruisers should be able to decimate a starbase in very short order as long as you've got your fighters flying CAP around them (and it's not the Vasari starbase, which will close and attack them - for that I use a swarm of strike craft to soften it up first, and then bring in capital ships & support to tie it up while keeping my carrier cruisers away from it).
I've also feigned attacks to get the AI to send much of its supporting fleet to another location. I then turn my secondary fleet around as soon as the enemy arrives (unless I'm confident I can wipe them out) while using the enemy's starbase to properly litter the gravity well with its debris. Using a little deceit to draw off firepower is always a good approach. Remember that any given fleet may approximate a rather blunt object, but your war plan should be sharp and precise.
edited bekuz i kant spel
Akkan with armistice will also save your fleet.
I think this guy just wants the game to be as easy as possible. that way he can just comp stomp without having any loss's making him feel superior, which in reality, no challenge means your inferior.
Come try the game in online multiplayer against human opponents, Stupidolphin. It might change your perspective on things like balance. The races are fairly-well balanced as evidenced by experienced and skilled players playing all three races.
What exactly do you want culture to do for you? It raises allegiance on your planets, makes it difficult for attackers to colonize your planets after they've bombed them, and it slowly reduces allegiance on other planets. It's hard to kick an enemy military occupier off of a planet with pamphlets and radio broadcasts, but over time, in this game, it can happen. Culture really adds to the game, IMHO.
RA is actually very expensive and not often seen in online multiplayer against human opponents. You have to build 8 civic labs and do 5 pieces of research, one level 5, two level 7, and two level 8. That's expensive! The phase stabilizers are also very expensive and you can only use the RA ability once every 10 minutes and you have to pay for it. Perhaps it would pay for itself after 6 hours of game play.
It's nothing like what it used to be before verson v1.1 where people would build 15 phase gates, publicly announce "I have attained Returning Armada, the game is over," and then proceed to skyrocket up to 2300 fleet supply. It's almost useless now. I really don't see it too often in the pro game unless it's a really long game and the Vasari player is doing well. Before v1.1 RA used to be the main reason for playing Vasari, but it's barely a factor at all now.
The Vasari starbase is one of the primary reasons for wanting to play Vasari now. If it were weakened then the other two races would become a little more powerful than Vasari IMHO; it would mess up the game balance.
You have to find other ways to knock them down. As a general rule, you should try to keep your fleet away from starbases. Try a swarm of 50 bombers and watch what happens.
A fully loaded Vasari starbase can do that. However, I've also seen them knock down the starbases quickly.
The TEC starbase can blow up! Stay away from the starbases and fear them!
It's a tough nut to crack but starbases can't move across phase lanes. If you can't knock it down with a huge amount of bombers, just go around it and jump to the next gravity well or culture the planet to death.
I don't mean to be too big of an ass, but until you come play the game in online multiplayer against real human opponents and have some experience, it's hard to take anything you say about balance very seriously unless you want to complain about the AI's bad decision making, lack of micromanagement ability, and overall lack of competitiveness.
Yeahh um JuleTron said it best
Then you state
you only upgrade enough to nullify cost? and not get the maximum profit
plus only one spaceport per system, um I usually put two or three depending on world type, each one increases income
if you had bothered to pay attention to Sun Tzu, (like the fact that intelligence and spys are important, modern equivelant spy satellites) you would know that you need a powerful economy to operate a powerful army. You only do enough to do the minimum therefore you will only get minimal effect for your army, hence you suck against starbases
oh and I rarely play beyond a 20 planet system, any higher gets too tedious
Starbases are strong against the AI, cause the AI is stupid and commits suicide. Generally, a fully upgraded starbase supported by two repair platforms can wipe out any AI fleet.
Against a human opponent, a starbase rarely lasts more than ten seconds...
I think the definitive arguement was made:
We'll set up a game with you against a pro. You can employ any and every extream inbalance in your own favor (build all the starbases you want), and the pro will not be allowed to build any starbases. We will then see that proper fleet use can overcome any starbase.
You're taking what he said out of context.
just tonight i threw a medium sized fleet against a Vasari SB. Which took out atleast 7 hoshis and a few Cielos while it chased me in circles. But by the time my fleet had completed one time around the outer GW my 19 fighter squadrons and 32 bombers was able to overwhelm the fully upgraded SB.
Pitting an experienced player against a newbie proves nothing. Of course, AI idiocy proves even less.
how about tying that pro's arm behind his back. Dont let him attack until stupiddolphin has a "impenatratble" (as he calls it) wall of SBs on his Star and the planets that surround the star. Then just let the Pro unleash hell on the guy and show him how wrong he really is.
He repented and said that it was do-able some time ago dude...
Like many threads, the discussion has "migrated". Our debate here regards whether such a test would prove anything.
Anyways, my position is unchanged. An experienced player knows how to use his units (and how to counter his enemies) far better than an inexperienced one. What matters is how two people of equal skill can use these tools to facilitate the other's demise.
for those people the solution is simply building a greater amount of 1 unit then the other.
Ill admit im no pro. I only play SP and pretty sure Id have my ass handed to me in MP. With that said Ill still take this guy on. Let him build all the SB's he wants and then Stomp his ass. Hell he can spam all he wants to too. Ill still rape his units.
Lots and lots of bombers to attack starbase, have your caps attack planet, and frigs and cruisers to kill hanger defenses away from star base reach, Well thats how I do it.
20 -30 bombers should be enough for an average starbase with a few upgrades. Not the beasts like a vasari 2 shield deflector upgrades, 4 armor upgrades, 2 close assault upgrades. (and the 6 & 7 tier military upgrades in defense tree more hp's and lots of extra armor and extra firing batteries)Thats just plain nasty, but can be done, painfully.
I feel your pain they are not easy targets.
I'll say it again, 20-30 bombers, if u hav the money to buy carriers.
OR 5, maybe 10 if u want it to be really quick, structure-pounders (ogrov and that other one) takes out starbases in SECONDS. very easy and cheaper way to do it.
if its a Vasari SB just keep your Fleet on the outside of the GW and keep them running in circles while the SC and Anti Structure chase it down and kill it, but just remember you will lose the Anti Structures in the process as the SB will move and youll have to pretty much chase it to keep it in range.
My anti-structures never seem to die. Don't know why. Of course, I don't play against the Vasari often so maybe that's why. stationary starbases are a lot easier
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