Well having played sins, i was really looking forward to the "Balances" coming with entrenchment...
But i find that the culture is still not anywhere near effective enough to be even slightly viable.
Returning armarda has not been changed to have a limit and remains completely broken and abusable.
Being honest, the starbases are not even slightly blanced and are completely game BREAKING.
The vasari deflector shield damage reduction is just a joke and its ability to be built from a colony ship is insane.
Having thourghly play tested all of the starbases myself now, i can say that when you have a fleet of 20 heavy crusiers wiped out by one star base its not playable.
even more of a bad joke is when 20 cruisers specialised at killing structures cannot kill a starbase lol.
Not to mention the asteroid ability completely stoping all fleets in their tracks.
A star base backed up by hanger bays full of fighters and asteroid swarm is completely invulnrable!! ooh but they even gave those very same hanagr bays shield restore as well!!
A starbase supported by repair platfroms is sick, and the TEC starbase is complety lame compared to the other 2..... its self destruct ability does not even do any damage to anything.. its completely bugged.
pleeeeeeeeeaase BALANCE THE GAME i did not pay for a game that hasn't been play tested.
feel free to correct me if you feel this is not acurate I am a VERY unhappy customer.
i find 5 anti-structures work fine for me. starbase goes down in maybe less than a minute. pretty simple and clean. the only annoyance there is keeping the rest of ur ships outside the starbases range until its gone.
u no u can attack the starbase while its under construction....
You cant get more than 20 HCs by mid game?
Then you seriously need to rework your economical startegy
ReRead Sun Tzu and apply it might just help you
if by the time your enemy has a fully upgraded starbase you should be able to bring plenty of hurt on his base,
Or 20 Hoskis?!?!?!?!
my bad ryat, please explain how you do this epic feat?
would have to know how you go about building up your econ, what maps you play and other minor details such as what race you play, research you go to first, how soon you upgrade your fleet size
If you can't afford more than 20 cruisers then there is something wrong because last time I check I could built 5 capitals, with support ships/research etc..., just fine with 4-5 trade post + 5 refinery and 5 planets. Would be bit of slow going however.
Returning armada is still useful for instant reinforcement. Culture Deliverence allow you to remove the enemy culture bonus *antimatter regen for tec forget the other two bonus* then put in your own culture bonus instead. Also you have a tech that allow a full system view while the enemy is briefly under your culture influence. There is one last bonus with deliverence in a 150 system everyone will be hard to push around cutlure-wise around and deliverence is the only weapon that help out the most end game.
There is always a way to take down an entrenched position. Take bombers (and orgovs if TEC) first target constructor frigates, then repairs, then hangers and now the starbase.
The thing about starbases is they are fixed to a certain well. Avoid it till you can take it down.
I think everybody had issues with starbases being overpowered the first few times they went against them. One time when I was green the enemy super fortifed the only two choke points to his territory and I couldn't beat it so I surrendered. Now I would lol as my bombers tore the whole thing down. You can always dock your bombers, typically the enemy will not do the same to his fighters and thus they will be go over to attack your fleet where they are in range of flak/capital ship abilities. Once a significant portion of fighters are down undock the bombers and start making things boom.
Culture is useful. It boosts your economy. It stops planets within your territory from being colonised. It can decrease the enemy economy and screw someone over who is turtled at their homeworld.
well guys i really do apreciate you taking the time to write me a decent and on the whole constructive reply to my rantings so thankyou for that
I must admit i probably have not played the game for as long as some of you have :/ although i am not new to RTS
But i respectfully disagree with your main points about being able to field a large enough fleet to kill these things in the same amount of time they can be fielded.
In my opinon ( only mine by the look of it) starbases are to quickly fielded, and the amount of force needed to remove them does not properly scale economicaly until the end game.
Also, scooting around them mid game does not help as I just find another starbase in the next major system :/
just remember that starbases also allow you to build up your forces better
use them and that might help you
if you push it right you can get a starbase up and running in less the ten and upgraded in 15 to 20 depending on resouces
work at entrenchment more. and ur economy by the looks of it. trade ports=GOD. that should do u good
That is possibly the most incorrect statement regarding war that I have ever heard in my life. His book is on the Marines Professional Reading List. Also, futuristic war is pure speculation so you can't say whether his tactics are valid or not.
Stupidolphin, I recommend learning how to play the game first. All of your statements are so incredibly wrong that I don't know where to begin. Listen to the other posters. They understand this game and know how to play it.
Is is far more complicated then that. You need to prepare yourself for any tactic that he uses in response to what you do, you need to position your ships properly, you need to know which planets to capture first, when and why and what upgrades to get, when and why.
Why not just present what we have and refrain from trying to tear down what we feel is wrong? I mean really, I'm guessing the main reason most of you know who Sun Tzu is, is due to Firefly. lol. But seriously I find that, assuming that you and your opponent are equals in terms of brain power, it really just boils down to the map and map placement (for relative BOP as well as the "real" strength of a SB.)
Starbases aren't inher. OP. But they do have the potential. Hell, SCOUTS can be OP on some maps. I really have to wonder how you have all arrived at the same definition of mid game though. You guys are psychic.
firefly? what the hell does a bug whose butt lights up have to do with an ancient military strategist
TV show.
dododo... hokey.
a clean starbase... costs 3000 monies. 450 metal and 375 crystal for whatever race you may be. now... with research costs that could be different, but whatever.
for that much... I can build... dododo... lets use 4.5 credits per resource, since thats preety standard...
I can build... 3 carriers. (plus a bit of change) set them to bombers.
thats 6 squads of bombers vs 1 unupgraded starbase.
now... if we dont count the economic advantage of the defenders do to transit time and build time... or the fun bit of not attacking while the starbase is building...
the bombers still win.
may take a while, but the bombers still win.
idk... maybe we should just play a game sometime and I wont build any starbases... and you can build as many as you want and we will see who wins.
^Haha! I may just die from laughing at that Ryat!
Either way, I think their is something seriously wrong with the OP's economic strategy considering the trouble he's having knocking out other people's starbases. Generally, if he can do something, you can stop it (if you play your cards right) unless your at the point where he has so many planets more than you'll end up steamrolled anyway. But to be honest, most of your comments sound like someone has just popped into your system and dropped a fully upgraded starbase in your lap. I mean, fighter problems with a starbase? That takes ten minutes and 9000 credits at least (rough estimate, I may be mildly off though) in which you could have easily build enough flak/carriers to take out all fourteen (sixteen?) squads that come out of that starbase at the most. What are you doing? Having a tea party?
I honestly can't offer an explaination to the problems you're having. I've only once been skewered by an SB, and that was in a 5v5 where I sent my fleet off to help another player eliminate some poor chap who got map er...disadvantaged...Something tells me you're mising a vital element somewhere. Have you made sure to fully upgrade the development of all the planets you colonise? Built all your extractors? Built your first cap, which is free by the way (the manual fails to mention this), right off the bat? You know how to upgrade your fleet supply/cap ship crews? Post your usual startup strategy here and we'll see how we can help. I suspect you're missing something vital somewhere.
Either that, or you're an employee of Stardock who's decided to satarise our constant complaints by complaining about something we do all agree on! That would be funny.
by the time i come across an enemy starbase thats nearly decently upgraded. I have a decent sized fleet going. Usually a compliment of 20 light carriers as well as my Cap's carrying their own fighters/bombers. Usually the numbers work out 16-18 Fighter Squadrons to 28-32 Bomber Squadrons. Starbases (atleast TEC only field 14 at fully upgraded squadrons)
Once i jump my fleet into the GW I immediately launch the fighters/bombers and order every last one of them to engage the SB while I move my fleet out of range and move them to intercept any other fleet in the GW. While a TEC Fully upgraded SB has 20k health. It still cant stand against my 32 bombers and 18 Fighters swarming it. The SB wont be able to handle that many SC bringing the Rain. It might take awhile to beat down the shields and hull. But the damn thing falls at the end every time. My biggest problem is always my fleet is now without a good amount SC to defend it from other SC. The Few SC that fall out from the attack on the SB is usually no match for the enemy SC. But I always get the upper hand as i target their Command Cruisers and their strongest Caps to break their spirit and route them. I think your arguement the SB's being too Strong is really obsurd. SB's are quite easy to bring down when you observe how easy it is to pound on it without having to put your fleet ontop of it.
Also Any SB that gets fielded early on, Never has the fighter compliment that can fend off a decent and well thought out tactic. Ive watched 4 Bomber Squadrons and 4 Fighter Squadrons take down a SB with 7k hull. It took a good amount of time. but it did it. As well if your having problems with SB's in your own GW start setting mines in the areas they usually jump in.
I still get a kick out of the construction vessel building a SB ONTOP of my minefield and within seconds of it begining construction it becomes space debris.
Unfortunately, Allegiance86, starbases don't trigger mine field detonation anymore - which is completely and utterly ridiculous, imo. Or were you talking about the construction ship triggering them .
Also... to the OP: You do research extra fleet supply, right? You should be able to have well over 20 heavy cruisers. Lack of a properly sized fleet is probably the only thing that's giving you any grief as far as starbases are concerned.
And if you REALLY want something to be sad about: try popping a kostura round at an enemy planet that's behind a choke point, and then let a fleet and a colony ship ride the shockwave in... Enjoy deepstriking a starbase with it's own defense fleet.
It's so good, you'll {edited for adult content}
Huh? Starbases overpowered? Unupgraded ones go down easily enough. If it's fully upgraded, tank it with a combination of cap ships, heavy cruisers, and repair ships while the long range attack ships kill it. Don't skimp on that last part. You want at least 8-10 if it's a fully upgraded starbase. For Visari, you'll want a lot of bombers instead.
If they maxed fighters on the Advent base, that means they can't have max weapon and defence upgrades on it. Bring some flak or fighters and laugh at them for spending nearly 8000 credits for a super hanger.
Try asking for constructive tips before coming on and whining about game balance.
My 8 Caps And 20 Light Carriers do the job regardless of what race im up against. Their SB's cant hold out against 32 bombers swarming it.
I have not yet purchased Entrenchment, but from what I'm hearing...
Anima Tempest!
That's before he stopped bonging for the night
...
I was talking about when the constructor begins building the SB. Its almost instantanious. The whole thing goes up before it can even really start building. Brings a tear to my eye to know a single mine wasted that much of my opponents creds
Starbases are not that hard to kill while being built...yeah, it is a problem after they are upgraded, but why did you let it get to that point?
While I tend to agree that starbases slow the game down a bit much for my taste as far as multiplayer goes, they are fairly well balanced. A starbase built to control a critical system is immensely valuable, while one built unneccessarily is a huge waste. The resources spent on the starbase is often better spent growing a mobile strikeforce and expanding to control more worlds. Play against the good online players and try to use the tactics you consider "unfair" or "hard to counter" and see how they deal with them.
I once had a game where Siddy got massively fed to build starbases on my HW and nieghboring Ice World. I managed to eventually kill the one at my HW, but the Ice one got built. I just expanded in the other direction and went around it. The enemy teams investment in those starbases was a massive damper on their early game economies, and I just moved all my infrastructure to different worlds so I wouldn't get knocked out of the game.
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