Well having played sins, i was really looking forward to the "Balances" coming with entrenchment...
But i find that the culture is still not anywhere near effective enough to be even slightly viable.
Returning armarda has not been changed to have a limit and remains completely broken and abusable.
Being honest, the starbases are not even slightly blanced and are completely game BREAKING.
The vasari deflector shield damage reduction is just a joke and its ability to be built from a colony ship is insane.
Having thourghly play tested all of the starbases myself now, i can say that when you have a fleet of 20 heavy crusiers wiped out by one star base its not playable.
even more of a bad joke is when 20 cruisers specialised at killing structures cannot kill a starbase lol.
Not to mention the asteroid ability completely stoping all fleets in their tracks.
A star base backed up by hanger bays full of fighters and asteroid swarm is completely invulnrable!! ooh but they even gave those very same hanagr bays shield restore as well!!
A starbase supported by repair platfroms is sick, and the TEC starbase is complety lame compared to the other 2..... its self destruct ability does not even do any damage to anything.. its completely bugged.
pleeeeeeeeeaase BALANCE THE GAME i did not pay for a game that hasn't been play tested.
feel free to correct me if you feel this is not acurate I am a VERY unhappy customer.
You way off the mark there bud. You only get close to truth with the metor, but even there you fall short of truely calling it.
EadTaes basically sums it up quite nicely.
yeah, sorry dude, can't share the same emotion as you stupidolphin
As for the whole "yaa I cant use brute force to destroy a starbase" complaint I find it to be asinine. The starbases are SUPPOSE TO stop such an attack. If you dont like the starbase being there then go around it, think about how to destroy it, or surrender and quit.
You do realize that it costs more to use deploy starbase function as Vasari than it does as TEC or Advent right?
Grats on your first day of Entrenchment!
Now... patch it up, and try playing for more than an hour and a half
Thanks for the feedback guys but please... list some reasons why what i am saying is wrong
Starbases need to be half as tough and should not be buildable in systems not under your control. this is a hot fix suggestion until proper balance is worked out.
Also completely remove the asteroid ability for something less fleet wrecking with way less range.
Telling me that starbases are not broken, just "go round them" is completly stupid and avoiding the problem.. you must destroy them to take the planet!
Also, if force is not how they are suposed to be destroyed then how plz ?
Bombers and anti-structures units. Or the vasari SB.
There are workarounds for this. Bombers first of all. Second, the TEC research that increases missle range and/or Akkan lets you shoot outside that range.
For the cost you put in to them, they are weak. If you lower their HP even more they will be useless. SB are not to be rolled over easily.
Culture boosts your economy, adds the race-specific culture effect, and defends against enemy culture.
Returning Armada is quite useful, but it isn't endless free ships anymore.
Deflector Shield can only be on for a portion of the time and only reflects half/two-thirds damage depending on upgrade level. (Starbases can only have eight upgrades max.)
The Vasari SB also happens to be their anti-SB weapon.
Starbases are very, very expensive. You need a good-sized fleet to crack 'em. Anti-structure cruisers are great against them, but are also very fragile. Defend them. In particular, fighters mow 'em down. Also, bombers are awesome against SBs.
Advent SBs are particularly tough with the Mass Disorientation Meteor Control combo, and need to be approached with a plan.
Upload a replay of the TEC Safety Override not working. Works fine for most everybody.
First of all, this breaks the ability to put tradeports in UCGWs as well as disrupts the Vasari ability to use its starbase as a starbase wrecking ball (which it does good if you can build it up fast enough, that being the biggest complaint)
So the US forces in WWII were wrong in using the go around the massively built island fortresses of the Japanese Armed forces to reach the heartland and destroy the enemy at its weakest point and allow the rest to "die on the vine" as MacAurther put it. Or better yet maybe Sun Ztu was an idiot when he said attack were enemy is weakest and avoid where he is strongest.
My apologize on this one, I was more pointing to the fallacy of the whole I want to use a small force to clear out defenses instead of thinking things through. There are several other options to handling a starbase. The number one is Bombers. And many others have had success in using the Orgovs to smash a well built starbase.
use bombers and Orgovs or if playing Vasari use the Orky
never get close to a TEC starbase with this option in play
NEVER!
the infamous missile barrage as got nothing on this thing
Oh dude jbaum once left it on autocast, and his own fleet was bassing by the base, tryign to fleet the system, when it was bombed to 500 hull and it activated. Wiped his own fleet lol
Missile Barrage doesn't nuke yourself, though.
ouch, now that hurt
When they first released Starbases in the beta, I actually liked them better. They were way cheaper and with much less HP. Basically you could build them everywhere but never create a system that was so slid it couldn't budge.
That changed though because beta testers wanted extreme fortresses instead. I much rather prefer the other way but other players didn't and that's how it goes!
Your other points I don't agree with.
Orky? Is that the nickname for the vasari starbase around nowaday?
allow me to make myself more clear. My game is patched. I tested this for the whole day. I am very quick to learn games please do not treat me like an idiot when your solutions are invalid and extreme.
Upon finding an enemy has begun constructing a starbase I must now go and build 40 long range cruisers just to remove it from the system.. while his fleet just sit there and wait for me to do this.. NOT
Removing a Starbase can only be considered at the end game when you have silly reasources.
As it is now, the first person to build a starbase and block off large areas of planets wins (the dungeon keeper method)
1. bombers are not the answer to a starbase that can have soo many fighters that it can repel and destroy 20 cruiser carrier's worth of bombers... then send the fighters over to kill the crusier carriers.
Please note this is not even including fighter hangars in the test..so in a real game this is even more one sided.
2. long range weapons do not out range asteroids, only the TEC starbase can be out ranged, and this is why it is so un balanced.
Also i have tested the self destruct move 4 times now and it doesn't even damage fighters/bombers, let alone the massive fleet i put right next to it.
3. telling me starbases are "allowed" to be over powered due to their cost is stupid because they can definately kill way more money's worth of enemy ships then they cost even max upgraded.
4. allowing this to all be made infinitly worse by allowing cruiser and structure abilities to boost/repair starbases is insane.
5. Starbases clearly do not count as structures as the scout explosive ability cannot target them, but it says specifically it targets enemy structures. (tec scout frig)
6. although i respect sun tzu and have read his book "art of war" he is out dated and all his tactics are invalid when talking about modern/ futuristic warfare as his strategy heavily depnd on the stamina of human troops, not spaceships.
7. both of the crusiers designed to kill structures are too expensive and too "one trick pony" to be properly implemented in any adaptable tactics.
I would like to suggest that when a starbase is built, the building "ship" does not disapear inside it, thus leaving no way to kill it and prevent the building. Allow the building ship to be killed to prevent building at the very least, or you haven't even learned the leson that ruined warcraft 3.
If they're rushing starbases, they're not going to have a fleet to speak of. Starbases are very expensive. Until they're upgraded, they're not even all that strong.
1. You'll never wipe anything out with a fleet of one unit. You need flak to counter the fighters.
2. Which is why the range-increasing techs and abilities were suggested. It will out-range with either of those.
3. With good force composition, the only thing that can prevent a starbase from being detroyed without losses to the attacker is a defending fleet.
4. See above.
5. They're on a seperate target filter, though I didn't know Timed Explosives couldn't target them. Might be an error.
6. An army runs on its stomache.
7. They are expensive and are highly specialized. Nothing takes down structures as fast as a few of those, though.
You dont need 40 cruisers. That is overkill. As for the fighters...well where is your flak and your own fighters? As for his own fleet guarding his SB. Once you kill the fighters with flak then park your fleet right out of range. And let your crusiers pound the SB. If you use the Akkan with targeting uplink and/or using the research that increases missle range you can outrange meteor easily.
Your overcompicating this IMHO.
I once had 3 capital carrier worth of bombers I could take out the enemy starbase rather quickly enough to build up the planet's econ while I avoid the starbase.
Sound like a bug or a value in the game files not initialized correctly.
There was a point in the beta when there was no point to building starbase as they could not even stop a fleet from hopping everywhere and killing your econ.
There are abilities that does damage over the time stack them as much as you want and you can also repair your ships/fleets with the same method. On a second note you can also use long range ships + bombers to avoid taking too much damage.
Number 5 sound strange I will have to erm test that.
Not everything is supposed to counter everything else and I will refer to the damage table somewhere in the soase forum.
You can kill a starbase before it is fully built just shoot the starbase before it get to even half shield. With less damage done on your attacking fleet as well.
Probably we treat you like one because we have played for far longer and have learned myraids of tactics that work
1. Starbases have too many fighters? The complaint is that they have too few, how many carriers do you build?
2. hmmm..... have you tried upgrading TEC missile range and using the Akkan's range increase ability? This always allows me to out range any starbase by at least 5000 which is substantial.
And the BRB dont work? hmmmm.... are you sure you got everything updated properly, it works fine for me
3. So they are doing their job?
4. again they are doing their job?
5. never bothered with that tactic, starbases would paste them anyway unless you built hundreds
6. Some yes, Others no
7. Meh.... agree to a small point but I usually just use bombers though with TEC the I find the Orgovs to be effective in a big fleet
Um... you can destroy the starbase as its being built. That is the many complaint about the Vasari's Orky being its Anti-Structure weapon
Heh thank for answering my question about what orky was. Even if it wasn't toward me!
no prob man, so much short hand around here makes it hard even for ones like me that wander the forums
If starbases weren't powerful enough to actually beat a fleet that tried to take it down by brute force, they'd be patently worthless. The whole point of starbases is to create a stronghold that cannot be overcome by simply throwing an equal cost worth of frigates at it. There's nothing stopping you from just turning around and attacking something else.
The only problems I see with starbases currently are their fast build time (both offensively and defensively it's too easy to get these monsters in play while a battle is going on around them), and when the map happens to have a single choke point that can be exploited to completely block off the enemy, but the enemy lacks any choke of his own to do it back.
ok.
Please outline to me a fleet that you would build mid game to kill these starbases.
Also explain how you would be economicaly capable of building/researching these builds mid game.
I don't believe a fleet of greater than 20 crusiers is possible mid game, and even if it is, you would have nothing else to defend your whole empire with.
All because someone built one starbase in one of your systems... you must now change your whole game plan.
You build A, I build 20 of B. that is not a strategy game, it is boring and predictable
I really did like the game before SB tho, apart from returning armada and the culture deliverance engine being useless.
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