Since there are players here that could beat the Hard AI 9 vs 1, diplomancy will be easier since we may divide and conquer easily with the current levels. I'm suggesting that levels above Unfair be added with the AI recieving extra capital ships and low tier techs bonuses. Let's say:
Unfair + : AI gets a random Ice/Fire planet colonization tech researched.
Unfair ++ : AI gets a Akkan/Progneiter/Jarrusal at the start with both Ice and Fire planet colonization techs researched.
I like the general ideal of adding a harder AI. I'll bring this up at our next meeting. Thanks for the input.
I like the ideas but I really would like to see a better AI for late game (could we have scaling where the AI gets buffs at every 1hr or so into the game whereby they get extra credits or crystal etc. as it seems that once they have attacked on unfair and I repulse them then the game just turns into me chasing them back through their planets and they just constantly retreat.
Thanks for listening
I definitely like the idea of adding a "Cheater" AI, that would just be gross. I was also tossing about the idea of a "Juggernaut" AI that would start off with a small fleet, some research, typical AI bonuses, etc, with the idea that it'd be meant for one real hardcore player or several friends to take on. None of this is final, keep in mind, but I like the discussion of new ideas.
The problem with the AI currently isn't its starting position (it's at its strongest near the start of the game) but rather that it fizzles later on. Don't tinker with its start-game (cheating, that is; its intelligence could always use some help), focus on its horrendous end-game blundering.
I like the Juggernaut AI title. That is fitting.
I think the Jugg AI should be close to the way most online players play. Super Rusher.
The Jugg's should get a colony cap off the start, have 2-3X's resource generation, and build ships 2-3X's faster. This would give SP's a great "training" for eventual advancement into Multiplayer. This AI will need to change strats by the 1 hour mark, however. Jugg's would rush the first hour, then defense/tech up, then try to push out with superior fleets. This would keep it interesting for the SP's out there.
And Diplomacy would probably change much of this anywho. Hopefully it just makes the AI fleet smarter without having to increase cheat levels (the seige frigs run from danger, how come the main fleet goes headlong into a starbase with no support?!?)
IM THE JUGGARNAUT B***H!!!! lmao
We'll probably go ahead and try to tweak some things during beta, and get some better feedback then.
I should've seen that coming in retrospect.
Not to discourage the Dev's looking at this, because of course they could do it better and smoother, but a hard ai mod is possible.
There are several things that come to mind from the suggestions, probably starting with the militia and pirate fleets getting set to playable = false. The pirates of course are that way to start with, but the militia pulls from the tech setup, so it would mean creating a tech2 or even a militia setup, make it unplayable, and tweak the stats accordingly, faster build times, heavier weapons, or higher weapon upgrade rates, lower research costs and lower ship costs.
Perhaps higher upgrades in bonus percentages as they go up for militia planets, heavier armor.... etc.
While i have noticed the ai to run sometimes, perhaps even alot, i have thought this was because of a "outnumbered" or "out-performed" level in the game that looks at the strength of the fleet against the opponent. Lowering costs to output more militia ships (or Vasari or Tech or Advent as the unplayable race) means more ships, but all of that can be done now, though certainly time consuming to go through the ships, abilities, planetmodules and research and the galaxydef and gameplay.constants files.
Still doable though.
basically recreating a "complete" set of races as unplayable alternates used as the ai races. Unless i am missing something here. Can we designate the ai race in galaxydef? I know militia and pirates can be tweaked there. Or the constants file? Hmmmm..... i will have to check.
In addition, some of the mods already available change the gameplay tremendously. Depending on how difficult you want it.
Kiedjor's Epic mod for Vanilla and Unknown Darkness mod for Entrenchment show a great deal of really exciting opening with militia and pirates and opponent races attacking from the moment the screen opens. Tons of ships and a major fight right off the bat. Haha, i played the first hour solid without getting off my home planet because there was no let up in the attacks, it was fight/defend solid for over an hour. Haha, sorry to get away from the main ideas, but it seemed appropriate to show that hard ai can be done now with some creative and interesting tweaks.
Kiedjor uses what he is calling the "Battle System" and its not my place to tell how he does it, but it is interesting, and if you look at the mod it is there to be seen how. Creative uses of abilities and costs and in some cases giving abilities to the ai races that until now have been for the main races only.
Anyway, it is worth the effort, in my opinion, but again, not as polished or as smooth or even perhaps as nice, as the Dev's would do it. But still doable.
Just some thoughts,
I have to run off now for class, but maybe this weekend i can get some time in to try some of the ideas here to get a Hard AI Mod in the works.
Take care,
And Happy Gaming and Modding!!!!
-Teal
Darvin3 is really on top of it. The AI is a challenge at the start but really lacks in the late game. Unfortunately it's the hardest part of fixing the AI. Just having it cheat more really isn't going to do anything. We need to have AI that has more advanced tactics and more dynamic.
Not easy though
Indeed; the current "unfair" AI already has some absolutely amazing resource cheats. The problem is, there comes a point at which it could have all the resources in the world, it's just too dumb to use them well enough. I think the hard AI already reaches that level. The unfair is a little harder to overcome, but it's the same old idiocy.
Tired of beating a dead horse, but an ai that can build its superweapons would be a MAJOR improvement.
Things that I would like to see with a harder AI.
Like has been mentioned, unfair starts out alright, but dies about the same time I actually start hitting them. Part of this is that the the AI starts shifting ships around for no purpose and in strange amounts. Have the Ai actually create fleets, and have it be able to actually coordinate with its allies. All too many times I can defeat unfair in detail because one member of the team has moved all their ships to protect a megnetic storm while the others do "patrols between core planets. Human players communicate to set up coordinating strikes, the AI should be able to as well.
Presently with the AI "styles" the options are limited, and pretty apparent which way the AI is leaning fairly early on. Fortifier is easy once you get big enough (if it wasnt already easy because it hobbles itself) Agressive is he opposite, just invest enough in defense and all that happens is they die upon the wall. the hardest, the trade option, makes a ton of money and reseources, but fails entirely to use them, so by end game, you are facing maybe the highest fleet status and with high level capital ships, but thestarbases are relatively weak, the research levels dont compare all of which make for a long, but low damage victory, which wipes out all real opposite and just means im spending an hour cleaning up the galaxy and getting even bigger.
Good ideas, all around.
I think a Juggernaut level would be very good, and of course AI improvements aren't mutually exclusive with such a feature. Actually, I think the notion of just having a prebuilt AI fleet without the resource bonuses would be a good choice as well - it would create a different, more flexible kind of challenge. A tickable option box as you're picking your AI opponents would be proper for such a thing.
You know that the AI could be drastically improved via non-cheating methods by simply changing the way it approaches siege frigates (sending them undefended to a planet is idiotic), stopping suicidal starbase attacks, and making good capital ship choices based on situation.
Unfair does give me a problems occasionally in 4x speed. But it's mostly due to bad timing. To beat unfair you need to time your starbase on the front just right. Then you back fill your planets, it's pretty opposite fo the way you play a human. Getting Military tech first, then getting Econ, then going back to fleet up.
I agree with both making the AI smarter! and allow for cheating. A smarter AI as mentioned in the posts above is really important. Have the option to tweak how the AI cheats would be great too. I remember when I play UT you can customise the AI and it was awesome!
You want bigger games and a harder AI? You're in good company! Surveys show that 19 out of 20 women think bigger and harder is better.
Ok now, seriously, if the computer AI isn't doing it for you, why not just log onto Ironclad Onine and challenge JohnJames to a 1-v-1? If you like it both harder and bigger, try a 5v5 match with skilled players. Remember, you do have options and you're not the only person who ever wanted to play againt smarter opponents.
I can play against AI whenever I want, with whatever settings I want, for as long as I want. Hard to beat that. Also doesn't help that my internet connection is terrible. And that I love LAN AI crushers.
Better AI would help most players. Online players are only a small minority. Everyone else plays singleplayer.
I like this idea, especially because I play primarily LAN with friends against AI's. It would be fun to be against a single computer with overwhelming odds.
these AI improvements I think are a must-
Make AI use Capital Ultimate Abilities
Make AI Build Superweapons
Make AI make intelligent economic decisions, attempt to thwart your economic growth, and deal diplomatically efficiently.
I would think the last one is the hardest.
Can someone explain to me why the ai building superweapons is such an obstical?
the biggest problem with the ai is that even for an unfair ai the income with high fleet support research is too low maybe the malus from fleet support should be dropped (or reduced) for unfair+ ai's.
I think the AI has difficulty building superweapons based on their starbase plan, they just build them everywhere and randomly fire them.
I would also add to the list - make the AI use 40-50 bombers when attacking a fully upgraded SB
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