One of the features that we expect to get into Elemental Beta 1B is the Sovereign "hide" option.
Right now, if your sovereign dies, the game is over.
The downside of this, long-term is that in single player, you'll have players figuring out ways to assassinate AI players (i.e. crazy amounts of AI time will end up getting spent countering assassination strategies) and in online play it'll be "kill the sovereign".
With the hide option, when the sovereign is on a city, the player can choose to hide the sovereign at which point his player piece is no longer accessible. If the city he's in is taken, a dialog comes up and tells you that your sovereign has successfully fled to the closest city.
But at any time, the player can also have their sovereign come out of hiding and the player can then have them go do their thing, give bonuses, cast spells, etc.
The objective of the sovereign unit isn't that you are supposed to have to worry about protecting him but rather that the player can "gamble" it all if they choose in the form of making use of a single unit that is extremely powerful (potentially) but also could spell doom if that unit actually gets killed.
Sounds like the perfect approach! Kudos!
When your channeler is in hide mode will he still be able to be researching? Will he be able to cast "overland" spells ala MoM? Will there even BE overland type spells or will it be "channeler must be present to cast"?
The volcano is a good example - could that be cast from hiding, do you think, or does the channeler need to be in the nearby vicinity to raise the volcano?
Altough I like the idea, I suppose that it won't satisfy everybody (random monster in early turn killing Sovereign stuff).
Doom doom doom!
Hmm sounds interesting, can't wait to check it out It will be interesting to see how you guys at stardock decide to handle espionage and assasinations. I haven't seen a game yet that has successfully pulled it off, they all seemed to be based on chance and aren't very realistic. I have a lot of hope for you guys though!
Yes. He's hiding, not sleeping.
The main downside will be that you won't be able to use him as a unit (which means no bonuses to the city he's in or able to cast tactical spells).
But global spells (i.e. things accessible from the sovereign menu) are all still there.
Frogboy, a simple Yes/No question: At this point in time when you are reading these words, are there any plans of any kind of spionage system that is as interesting as other game features that you have already talked about?
And on topic, when the Sovereign is hidden, could the enemy know where he is even if he cannot "touch him"?
Great news Frogboy this is an excellent feature.
It sounds good, but it should be combined with the suggested "dynasty method" imo. [IE. If the sovereign dies, the player should be able to choose 1 of the childs of the sovereign as the new ruler.] It has been discussed in this topic: https://forums.elementalgame.com/365023
As good as the "heir idea" may be. I think with Brad talking here about the Hide option it's pretty safe to say Sovereign Death = Game Over.
I myself would very much like to see either a spell that can resurrect a dead Sovereign or an Heir take over the throne. At this point though I'd be happy just playing a later stage of beta so we can get a better idea of what kinds of ideas to give them.
Only channelers are immortal.
A "sleeping" Sovereign might be interesting. Perhaps it could be used to prepare for certain spells that are otherwise uncastable (i.e. allows build-up of mana or something), but player becomes AI-run at that point, minus any orders already given.
Such a feature might best remain in single-player mode, but it could be interesting.
I think he's trying to tell us sometimes guys... I just can't make it out, its too cryptic... Someone make an intelligence roll
@RisingLegend: *you see Raven roll a 20 sided die*...*it lands on 20* I'll now continue my post
Frogboy, I think only you can clear this up once and for all. Please describe what you mean by "immortal" to us. We understand he/she is ageless. Their children age and marry and have children of their own and die, and the Immortal Sovereign stays the same. Timeless and powerful. We know a Sovereign can be destroyed and killed in combat and as it stands to our knowledge so far that means game over.
If that is the big game over, I think we're all fine with that if that's how it is. Only you alone know exactly how everything will work in game as I'm sure you have a full model or mock up already and are just adding everything together. Only you and the Devs know for certain if that's the way it has to be. We don't have any idea of what to know except for what we'll test in Beta which will be coming over time.
Please tell us, is Sovereign death the final Game Over? Or will there be some kind of high level, extremely expensive back up measure in case of Sovereign death? Maybe a spell, or a way to imbue something with so much of our essence that after Sovereign death you come back as a fiery floating eye or something like Sauron? Perhaps create a Phylactery like a Lich so our soul is somewhere else when our body dies? Anything magical at all with some kind of pricey trade off?
As I said, if not then I'm sure we'll all accept that, but you'll definitely clear up a lot of questions.
Is there any way for players to detect enemy sovereigns while they're hiding or disrupt their ability to cast global spells a la Master of Magic and AoW 2? (eg. a wait period between the fall of the city and the sovereign's reemergence at the nearest city?)
sound good. Do we really need a dialogue box saying he fled to the nearest city? or will said dialogue have options like what was described above (where he comes out of hiding and can fight), or pick the city?
It seems like the type of option you'd not always want to be available. Like in games where you WANT to play "find and kill the sovereign" This certainly addresses many issues though.
I find it amazing that even with this ultimate "You can protect your sovereign and make sure that he only falls when your last city falls" is not good enough for some people. they want to be able to have a "battle mage" sovereign AND have a way to keep playing if their gambit fails.
If you take the consequences away from every choice, that makes the choice itself meaningless. This is perfect as it is, if they included what you are suggesting it imho makes the game stupid beyond belief. Chess analogy - don't worry about protecting your queen, because by golly if you lose her you can just promote a pawn! Woot!
Truthfully I like the sovereign dies game is over option, makes if feel more like chess in a way, and adds a unique aspect of strategy to the game, but its nice to have the option to turn it off if you want.
I've played a couple of games where I won accidentally by killing all the AI sovereigns. So this sounds like a good idea. In MOM the sovereign wasn't a game piece - I kind of like this better. All the power and all the risk makes for a much more interesting game.
Maybe some spells to teleport sovereigns between cities?
Maybe some bonuses to certain things when the sovereign is in the city? Morale - research etc.
Maybe some spell effects that can only be cast on a city while the Sovereign is in residence and some spell effects that can only be cast on a city while the sovereign is in residence and not hiding. More risk – more gain.
An interesting development. I wouldn't mind a resurrection spell, but the resurrection gambit would have to be hugely expensive and maybe have a significant chance to fail.
This hiding thing allows some players to play his like a normal civ game or almost exactly like MoM...
But as we know for a really long time now, he can be killed by normal ways like accidentally tripping and falling over a dagger, being eaten by a Dragon... Think Tolkien's elves. Or certain character(s) from the Gal Civ universe.
Only channelers huh? I can be immoral!
The hiding only helps those who want to play their channeler MoM style.
So of course some people will not like it because they hoped for a "battle mage" sovereign which you would actually use at times instead of only at a last resort.
And it will be only a last resort option like that because game over is a too high stake in most cases and whenever it actually matters that you use the sovereign, there will be a certain amount of risk (otherwise why even use your sovereign). Unless you use Save/Load often, that is.
So will there even be any choices to make your sovereign a stronger fighter? Likely not, because very few would use them if the choice is between a rare use combat sovereign improvement and some more often used magic or city improvement. But of course there is the modding possibility to allow for a non canon game that has more frequent combat sovereign use.
Because it'll help level your sovereign up and make him/her stronger.
EDIT
I'd be trying to use my sovereign in all low risk circumstances not just when I need him for a last resort
delete - didn't read Froggy's post carefully enough
Just a note: If the only option will be: Sovereign dies / game over for a given AI player, it will be easy to exploit the AI this way imo...or at least the human player will have a huge advantage. Just focus attack the enemy Sovereign. If he is hiding, lure him/her out. = 1 AI oppoment is screwed. I am just theorizing of course, but I am pretty sure that this method will work. We shall see, once the Beta will reach the needed version number.
This is yet another reason to implement the heir/dynasty method...or at least it should be available as an option on the setup game/create world screen. [But we've talked about this also.]
I'd much rather have an option where Channelers can dei without the player losing.
I never liked the idea, and feel it's unpleasant in the beta itself.
The hide option just looks like a kludge to me.
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