Its been over 1.5 years since Sins was first released and this is Ironclad's 22nd update to Sins/Entrenchment (ignoring all the beta updates).
It really hit us how the gameplay and strategies have evolved since then when we started tracking the source control changes for the siege frigate data which, as many of you may remember, went through a drastic nerfing early in 2008.
Well, now the situation is quite different due to a number of factors, not the least of which is player capability and the defensive measures added in Entrenchment. It was therefore neccessary to bring them back into the roster.
But we didn't stop at siege frigates. One of our primary objectives in this update is to make sure every unit is brought back into the pool of viable tools. In some cases this was as simple as modifying some data but in some cases we completely redesigned elements of them.
Naturally, trying to figure exactly what those changes needed to be was not an easy problem but one of the best ways was to play the game against as many players as possible so we once again took to playing regularly on Ironclad Online.
Unfortunately, we couldn't use our real names because when we did in the past we were the targets of unreasonable unholy alliances. Such circumstances aren't great for collecting data and analyzing strategies. Sorry for the smurfing but it was for a good cause
In addition to playing online we've spent a lot of time analyzing feedback on the forums, in particular the great thread by Deceiver_0.
In this thread he collected votes from everyone on a wide variety of issues and presented a consolidated place for ideas and potential fixes.
While we didn't agree with all the suggestions, we did attempt to address what we determined to be the underlying problems but in some cases we implemented the suggestions nearly verbatim.
Special thanks to everyone who contributed to that thread! Also, special thanks to everyone who wrote constructive posts or emails, we couldn't do this without you!
Enjoy!
-Ironclad
WARNING: This update will invalidate existing save games.
Gameplay / Balance:
Graphics and Effects:
Varasri starbse vs vasari starbase doesn't have to work. No anti starbase cruiser works vs vasari starbase - they can't run away and fire at the same time. Vasari get to use the same tactic versus vasari sb as everybody esle - bombers, bombers and more bombers. Plus bomber swarms get to jump to the next well!
There is only one nerf the orky needs. Its a sound qeue " An enemy starbase is under construction at our planet".
This is however from the perspective of the advent, it would be different without shield regen which with guardains can easily out tank an orky being built at one of your planets. Unless you are silly enough to allow it time to upgrade.
A starbase builds and upgrades at full speed in friendly wells, 33% slower in neutral wells and (quote from here)
Now 2.25 times the build time means 1\2.25 = 0.4444.. build and upgrade rate. If you increase that by 50% (as assault deployment should do), you get 0.6666... which is exactly the rate at which starbases build and upgrade in neutral wells (1 - 33% = 0.67).I checked it out thoroughly that Assault Deployment 2/2 indeed brings the build and upgrade speeds to the level of how it goes in neutral gravwells (it was done for the purpose of this thread ).
Conclusion - Assault Deployment works on upgrading.
As for:
As for what I think about the case as a whole - Vasari have a nice set of tools against other starbases and the Orky is just a different kind of one. Yes it's a bit lousy and completely unlike anything else Vasari have (they are s'posed to be fast&furious, not slow&steady, which is exactly what trading assault cruisers for a moving starbase sounds like to me). However, it gives you a good grasp of the enemy gravwell after the battle is concluded, if you win of course.So, against TEC and Advent - Orkulus is a unique tool. Maybe not the best starbase buster, maybe not too Vasari-sh, but it's a tool that can be used to good effects.
What is utterly screwed up all over about the Orky I have already b**ched my heart out in this thread. Take a look if you want.
one other thing I read about giving the orkulus a death ray: consider that everything you give it, the defending enemy vasari starbase can also have. a 3000+ single target dmg ability (or anything like this) would prove quite deadly to starbases in construction I'd say.
and I also read some other truth here: every race is having some trouble with the moving starbase, which makes that actual dedicated structure killers not such a good weapon. ogrovs don't outrange orkulus by that much for example.
I've come back to Sins recently in light of this pending update as well as Diplomacy down the line and I would like to suggest a change.
Might it be possible to make a setting for random maps to increase the likelyhood of Artifacts and Planetary Bonuses spawning when you explore? On a normal Medium map there is maybe two Artifacts and I would like to have the ability to manipulate a bar (like for speed and income) for Artifacts and Bonuses. Tie them together.
At the moment I think Artifacts and 10% and Bonuses 40%... maybe that can be the "Low" setting with 20 / 55, 30 / 70 and 40 / 85 the higher settings? I know this can be maniuplated in Galaxy Forge, but I haven't seen a new version for 1.03 yet.
Will Galaxy Forge be updated for this update?
To Blair -
Two questions regarding the Kortul:
With regards the change to Jam Weapons: Is it 20 seconds for the ability and any SC in range will be affected to the end of the 20 seconds or once the SC are in range, the SC are affected for 20 seconds (i.e., the ability was triggered 15 seconds ago, the SC gets affected and loses firing ability for either the remaining 5 seconds or a full 20 seconds)?
How long does shield restore for power surge last?
jam weapon affects sc in range only. sc that move out of range arent affected.
The most recent version works with 1.03, it wasn't especially made for it, but the map files haven't been updated sense, so their was not point in updating it. Also, you can open the .galaxy map files in notepad and just find the lines that say something like artifact density and bonus density and change them like that, in case the galaxy forge doesn't work for whatever reason.
Lets keep posting till the patch arrives!
I am excited about cap ship buffs! Also excited about the advent cap nerf Now to come up with a strategy for Akkan usage... My old strat was to send Marza to planet while colony frig single caps the Roid. I would have Modular construction before I build the Extractors... Now with Akkans I guess I can do drive by colonzing? Just colonzie the roid and head for the planet... cobalts en-tow for cleanup?
What I meant was they aren't efficient vs the orky, not nearly as efficient as bombers. Therefore I don't see it being particularly important since the vasari get to use the most efficient counter just like every other race.
Vasari mirror matches in general are a glorious pain in the ass.
But Orkulus vs Orkulus? Whew... I don't want to touch that topic with a 10 foot pole. I can't really think of a single genuinely good idea to fix that line up.
As for the Starbase Upgrades being built faster as well with Assault Deployment... I didn't know that. It still takes it's sweet time. Hell, maybe it would just be easier if you could pop an Orky into phase space and fly it over to the next system ready to go, lol.
Heh, that'd be a kick... have an Orky go into Travel Mode as a (defenseless, ie: weapons disabled) 'ship' (at the cost of some resources) and temporarily use fleet supply (possibly a lot, even 100 or so) while it phases around, and then "assault deploy" into it's starbase state (and quit using fleet supply, and possibly cost a few more resources to redeploy as well), and BANG! There you have it, a fully upgraded assault Orkulus ready to kick some ass after a short 'redeployment' count down.
Actually, hell, that's not that bad...
-Itharus
Orkys should get a penalty to damage while moving.
Vetoed. In this very day and age we have tanks rolling along at 40mph through rough terrain lobbing shells at targets a mile away with pin point precision. We have ships bobbing on the ocean launching missiles that can land on a top hat from half-way across the world. We can launch space shuttles through a field of thousands of pieces of debris while going over 17,000 mph and have it not suffer so much as a scratch.
Firing accurately while on the move is really NOT as hard as you would think when you bring computer assitance into play.
And I'll happily point out that your Advent and TEC starbases rotate, maybe THEY should suffer dmg penalties for moving? Sounds retarded, right? Agreed.
/Veto
Credit here goes to Ironclad. They're the ones who did all this. We at Stardock merely get to bask in their coolness.
The Orkulus lacks any offensive special abilities (particularly in the nature of safety override and meteor control) that the other starbases have. This means that no matter how heavily upgraded it is, you can take it head on with sufficient force. The problem relates specifically to offensive starbasing as Vasari. If your fleet isn't nearby, there's little you can do to stop it.
Now,I personally think the Vasari are best suited to counter their own starbase. The reason is nanos: WAY more effective than any artillery cruiser if the starbase isn't heavily upgraded yet.
I had feared this thread might turn into another Orky debate....
since the discussion is about orky, how about letting the orky jump to a planet after buying the phase stabilzer upgrade and having a antorak with its lvl 6 ability truned on on the other side.............
what do u guys think??
It has now.
Very nice changes.....while Lums still seem to be the LRM war kings, Basic Frigs are stronger, Flak is a little less effective, and HC's are more effective. These are all excellent incremental steps to find balance. Add in all of the Capship changes to help out the lesser used caps and I start to feel a strong urge to set up a windows gaming environment and come out of retirement.....
do so
Fanatics don't get to retire, get back in the saddle, Cykur!
Only the Argonev can destroy an indefinitely large frigate force that does not include anti-structure ships and carriers. Meteor Control is a purely offensive ability that does not disable damaged ships and cannot destroy most frigates in one strike. It is quite possible to overwhelm a Transcencia before the second wave of meteors arrive and suffer little to no casualties if the attack force is large enough. It's also the most vulnerable to AM burn and can be crippled by LFs.
All this detail...
For those of us with limited retention, may I ask: when IronClad update like this, do the in-game info screens for ships definitely get updated to reflect these changes (where they show the relevant figure)?
Yes.
something I just noticed (again) after playing: any chance we could get a sort of fog of war for buildings? you know, where defensive layouts are, starbases (with general upgrade lvl or sth, not necessarily the actual dmg and health values then observed), civilian structures, etc. why? because I do like scouting, but I am not always focusing my attention the moment the scouts enter a grav well all this information is visible. for me it's often like 'hey, I sent a scout there a minute or two ago, what did he find out? oh no, destroyed before installing a probe. ohhkay, starbase there. where? how strong? where are those point defenses and guns?'
basically, another way of taking micro stuff off, of making the game easier to handle. and you're not really getting that much extra information. aside from the orky, all structures are fixed, so they are either still there or have been destroyed/ dismantled. so it's the same info you'd have if you had looked, only it's stored logically and presented better. a lot of other rts give you that kind of information about building and it really helps, so I think it's not unreasonable.
I think I already said that I like this upgrade, right? anyway, again, good job!
I've always thought a fog of war feature would be great. Seeing the last scouted state of the planet would help a bunch.
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