Its been over 1.5 years since Sins was first released and this is Ironclad's 22nd update to Sins/Entrenchment (ignoring all the beta updates).
It really hit us how the gameplay and strategies have evolved since then when we started tracking the source control changes for the siege frigate data which, as many of you may remember, went through a drastic nerfing early in 2008.
Well, now the situation is quite different due to a number of factors, not the least of which is player capability and the defensive measures added in Entrenchment. It was therefore neccessary to bring them back into the roster.
But we didn't stop at siege frigates. One of our primary objectives in this update is to make sure every unit is brought back into the pool of viable tools. In some cases this was as simple as modifying some data but in some cases we completely redesigned elements of them.
Naturally, trying to figure exactly what those changes needed to be was not an easy problem but one of the best ways was to play the game against as many players as possible so we once again took to playing regularly on Ironclad Online.
Unfortunately, we couldn't use our real names because when we did in the past we were the targets of unreasonable unholy alliances. Such circumstances aren't great for collecting data and analyzing strategies. Sorry for the smurfing but it was for a good cause
In addition to playing online we've spent a lot of time analyzing feedback on the forums, in particular the great thread by Deceiver_0.
In this thread he collected votes from everyone on a wide variety of issues and presented a consolidated place for ideas and potential fixes.
While we didn't agree with all the suggestions, we did attempt to address what we determined to be the underlying problems but in some cases we implemented the suggestions nearly verbatim.
Special thanks to everyone who contributed to that thread! Also, special thanks to everyone who wrote constructive posts or emails, we couldn't do this without you!
Enjoy!
-Ironclad
WARNING: This update will invalidate existing save games.
Gameplay / Balance:
Graphics and Effects:
nice
Absolutely brilliant.
Love the new changes, but I'm slightly dissapointed at how little love the Skirantra got. Can't wait till its released.
This just made my day!
Thanks for this Ironclad, really looking forward to re-sparking my interest with Entrenchment.
The LF, Seige Frigates and LRF Vs LF changes look great to me.
The Volkorus looks great but it's kind of odd that the Seige Cap ship has become the best anti fleet post level 6 and the Colony cap is still the best seige ship post level 6, or at least it seems that way to me.
Was surprised the Jarrasul didn't get nerfed more, actually doing more damage now but just 5 seconds longer on the first level but I guess them armour debuff changed will make the biggest difference.
The Marauder still wouldn't get used by myself until most other caps are out but perhaps it works better in multiplayer.
Overall there's no real critisism, just initial thoughts, looking forward to trying it.
Yeahhh! Great!
Glad that I could be of some help to the patching process.
Fixes look great, can't wait to put them through the gauntlet of MP and see just how close we've gotten to perfection, but I must say, this looks like its will be the closest yet (if not right on the money!). Lums haven't been touched, but with the substantial nerf to repulsion and the range boost to LF abilities, they'll no longer be unstoppable late game. Ooh and I can't wait to see that unused skybox Pawelo was talking about.
Did I mention I you guys? Thanks for being awesome.
Three cheers for Ironclad! 1 for the devs, 1 for the patch, and 1 for awesomeness.
P.S. Count me in for Diplomacy.
one quick thing i think the prgen needs a slight nerf now because the egg and akkan will be about even, but the progen still has the best colonize and the best support ability in the game.
To all who are recommending more changes:
Good ideas, but lets see how this patch goes before we start jumping on top of things. We ought to thoroughly examine all the changes that are evident and those that aren't (remember how interwoven this games balance is) before drawing definite conclusions. This is a MAJOR patch and a lot of hard work undoubtedly went into it, the devs certainly deserve a breather and a pat on the back before we start recommending adjustments (not to mention they're still working hard on getting the Diplomacy beta out).
I think nows the time for relief and celebration.
First off thank you for the fixes.
Not to sound ungrateful but you didn't address phase stabilizers. They are broken.
1.) They are not instantly useable.
Why do I have to wait like 5 mins to use the gate? , I can understand in the old days you had to wait for the anti- matter to build up so you could jump and with really huge fleets not all would make the jump. Some will say that the anti-matter was for RA but I also found out in my games that phase jumping seemed to use anti-matter also.(In the old version at least it appeared to use anti-matter) But now with no anti-matter to speak of (until you get abilities of course) phase jumping IMO should be allowed as soon as they are built or whats the sense? Or put a Timer graphic on the abilitie so we know when it will actually come on line I could live with that, so I wouldn't sit there fustraited as to wondering why my ships won't jump to were they were targeted to go. Instead they jump to a totally different grav well
2.) When put in a ( star ) grav well the phase stabilizer ability does not work at all.
3.) Can you get rid of the neutral that you can't build star bases in or use abilities in or just change it to except star base building. Because if you get this on your side of the world it ruins a good trade port run sometimes and it serves no purpose to have a grav well you can't do anything in IMO.
Thank you
Well After sleepign the ight on it and doing a quick test I can tell you that LRF spam with just a hand full of flak will continue to be prety much the only stratergy viable in early game. The changes made to fighter the counter to LRFs is just insufficent. Don't bother gettign carrier with fighters they will still get wiped out and LRFs are still free to roam around with no counter. Couple with the fact that LUMS are still way more powerfull then it's counter parts this will msot likely result in advetn continueign to spam LUMS like crazy. The nerf to Repulse and range increase to HC should make it fossible to use HC to stop LRF spams to soem extent.
I can tell you that this objective is FAILED. IC in my Essay I wrote to you I told you that teh balance patch woudl need to absolute achive 2 things to succed. Repulse was one fo them and I can say you have succesfuly fixed that it seem. The 2nd was fixing the chain of counters by making fighters viable counter to LRFs again. You have failed this part. The game will remain a spam war of LRFs for the early game as flak will cotinue to wipe fighters to oblivion. Hence to me the PATCH nis a FAIL for it fails to meet 2 primary problem in full.
The balance mods alone should be a very good indicator that a simple 5% drop in build time penalty is innefective and will have almost no result on gameplay. Flak continues to be to powerfull againt the Fighters with will prevent the fighters from doing their job completely. And if the fighters can not do their job of killing LRFs that means the number of LRFs in fleet keeps increasing and that LFs will remain largely useless since they will benefit fron no protection. The will last longer now but theya re still dommed since their is no counter to their counter.
You are making HC the counter to LRFs that nice for late game but by doing so I think you replace 1 type of spam for an other. You changed in 1$ for four 25¢.
And I would also look at the problems incured by Raging Amish.
VERY WELL PUT Deceiver...and I agree wholeheartedly.
BTW, thx for all the hard work Devs...you guys ROCK!!!
I've seen this posted before and don't know what is going on with those that are having this issue. I play the Vas exclusively and have NEVER had this issue...I can use the gate immediately after building the PS and it has always worked well for me...both in SP and in MP.
keep in mind that scramble bombers is and has been stackable with itself so....it would add up more than you might think.
Nice to see many of the changes that have been suggested over many months have been implemented. Nice to see that all factions will get their despritely needed upgrades. But booing the fact the varssari got to most fixes, should balance it out more
YEWESSSSS
THIS IS THE HAPPIEST DAY OF MY LIFE!!!!!!!!1111111
THE SOVA GOT SOME LOVE!!!!!
(now to read the posts)
(just... so... happy!)
Ok, read the thread now.
To the devs: thank you so much! it will be so awesome to see how many people start showing up on ironclad online now to play with the new game. Oh, and Ignore whatever Eadtaes says... he hasnt played with the new patch like you all have, and he doesnt know. He is also a troll, he should be ignored anyway.
Eadtaes: Seriously, give the patch a chance in game before you say how horrible it is.
To the modders: Doh! i feel sorry for you guys (expecially the 7ds and the distant stars people and everyone else). it shouldnt be too horrible though.
To Raging Amish: I am happy to see that you are happy!
I couldn't help but notice that the issue of the weird delay between Phase Stabilizer construction and the ships actually using them wasn't mentioned. One thing I've discovered is that ships outside the gravity well can jump TO the new Stabilizer, but anything already there can't jump FROM it, nor can the outside-the-well ship jump back to where it came from.
Sorry to ramble. It's just that this is the only thing keeping me from loving Vasari.
Apart from that, I look forward to getting back to slapping the Advent around. Those Illuminators have been way too much trouble lately.
I disagree with the reworking of the Nano Dissassembler, but most of the other changes I think are positive.For the Vasari, I think that the Enforcer could still use a further boost.
Another problem is as mentioned earlier, LRM spam. We still have the problem. Maybe the price of LRMs needs to be pushed up a bit.
at risk of sounding like a hippocrite... why were the turn rates of every ship that has a non-omni-directional ablitity (dominator, subverter, overseer... and if i remember correctly... light frigs as well?) increased... except... the hoshiko, and the ceilo? designate target, and demolition bots are not omni-directional.
At first i thought: oh well, those are aggressive ablities compared to perserverance and nanite armor... so many they should be harder to cast... but the subverter only has aggressive ablities?
(then again, i always thought that demo bots should be omni-directional as far as making sence wise goes... unless its like... the hoshiko MUST be pointing at the enemy ship to paint the enemy ship so the robots know where the engines and weapons are or something.)
So basically, the game will stop crashing after a long period of time? no more infamous memory dumps? I remember those used to happen all the time. I just got back into playing again after a 7month break.
2. Maps that are completely stocked with neutrals on one side of the map but have none on the other side.
I'd also like to see them address the problem of planets being on top of one another or overlapping each other.
...and we still need and want auto-downloading for custom maps.
AI still doesn't make superweapons?
I hope this has a big effect on reducing late game lag.
I'd like to learn more about how this works. If all Carrier capital ships now top out at 8 strikecraft squads max, does this mean that the Halcyon can have up to 11 squads (Adept Drone Anima)?
What happens when the Level 6 ability is activated and 60 strikecraft are spawned--does that give it 6 extra squads for a possible total of 17 squadrons (11 + 6)?
Hes right, at lvl 3 with a 20 second cool down, the Skirantra would be able to put out 15 additional bomber Squads into the well in a minute and 40 seconds.Thats pretty significant.
It will put 60 extra strikecraft divided into already existing sqaudrons, which could either A. instantly re-fill the Halos heavily damaged squads, or B. nearly double the strength of undamaged, full squadrons. But yeah essentially the Halo would be able to field 17 squads worth of fighters (in 11 squads).
FOR LRM SPAM HATERS:(myself included)
They'll be reducing the build penalty on carriers, which many have requested. Personally I think that putting that build penalty on in the first place brought flak back to usefulness, but was a little too heavy and weakened carriers(specifically those carrying fighters) too much. Dialing it back a bit was the right move and will likely put fighters back in the game as a viable counter to LRM spam early game. 5% may not seem like much, but out of previous 15% penalty, thats actually a very significant number. Plus light frigates can now live longer against a lrm spam (nerf to anti-medium dmg+ hp/shield boost), thus being able to do more damage against enemy flak before they're destroyed. These two fixes together will DEFINITELY help in being able to take apart LRM+Flak fleets, as to what degree, not one of us can be sure.
Again, lets test the patch out before drawing any conclusions, this games balance is soo intricate that many things will have been altered that are not immediately evident from the Change logs. Remember that a buff to 1 thing is the same as a nerf to ALL its counters (which often are more than 1 type of ship) and vice versa. There are so many adjustments in this patch, its nearly impossible to say how everything will turn out before actually testing it out, so lets give it the applause it deserves and then put it to the grindstone when its released. Only then can we really start to see how everything is effected by these changes.
15 extra squads? Where are you getting that from. Their lifespan is still 120 seconds, and the cooldown (at level 3) is 20 seconds. That's six extra squads, not fifteen. That's kinda pathetic, seeing as the new Halcyon ability gives you three extra squads for free.
As I've said before, the primary purpose of the Skirantra is its repair cloud ability. Scramble bombers has to compete with that ability for antimatter. I don't think it's strong enough to do so.
We missed some changes in the patch notes. I'll be posting them shortly. Some typos were also fixed and already edited.
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