Its been over 1.5 years since Sins was first released and this is Ironclad's 22nd update to Sins/Entrenchment (ignoring all the beta updates).
It really hit us how the gameplay and strategies have evolved since then when we started tracking the source control changes for the siege frigate data which, as many of you may remember, went through a drastic nerfing early in 2008.
Well, now the situation is quite different due to a number of factors, not the least of which is player capability and the defensive measures added in Entrenchment. It was therefore neccessary to bring them back into the roster.
But we didn't stop at siege frigates. One of our primary objectives in this update is to make sure every unit is brought back into the pool of viable tools. In some cases this was as simple as modifying some data but in some cases we completely redesigned elements of them.
Naturally, trying to figure exactly what those changes needed to be was not an easy problem but one of the best ways was to play the game against as many players as possible so we once again took to playing regularly on Ironclad Online.
Unfortunately, we couldn't use our real names because when we did in the past we were the targets of unreasonable unholy alliances. Such circumstances aren't great for collecting data and analyzing strategies. Sorry for the smurfing but it was for a good cause
In addition to playing online we've spent a lot of time analyzing feedback on the forums, in particular the great thread by Deceiver_0.
In this thread he collected votes from everyone on a wide variety of issues and presented a consolidated place for ideas and potential fixes.
While we didn't agree with all the suggestions, we did attempt to address what we determined to be the underlying problems but in some cases we implemented the suggestions nearly verbatim.
Special thanks to everyone who contributed to that thread! Also, special thanks to everyone who wrote constructive posts or emails, we couldn't do this without you!
Enjoy!
-Ironclad
WARNING: This update will invalidate existing save games.
Gameplay / Balance:
Graphics and Effects:
Damn, I was looking forward to that...oh well, its an easy mod
BTW, I'm running a game of the september 30th updated Entrenchment. Works pretty good as long as you use Protevs to colonize and not the Akkans (when playing TEC anyway, haven't tried the others on this update.)
Dunno why people have trouble with the Akkan. I use it all the time and I am fien and have been doing very good with it. Combining the Akkan's colonization bonus with the early TEC accest to mining upgrades yeilds very good results with volcanic world that have 3-4 mines and good results with ice world that have 3-4 mines. As for the worlds with only 2 mines it help damped the bad effects of being map screwed. Has a game the otehr day with 2 volcanic and ice all with 2 mines only. The bonus combined with research save my add from certain doom as my oppent had 3-4 mine worlds. But it just barely saved my ass. I still had to jump throuht houpes to pull it off.
Colonize now grants 1/2/3 free resource extractors instead of 0/1/2.Colonize now also increases resource extraction rate of that player's extractors at that planet by 33%/66%/100% for 360 seconds. (Entrenchment Only)
Hi,
could someone explain these two mods on the Akkan?
1.Does this mean that the col ability 1 grants 1 resource extractor, lvl2 grants 2, etc.
2. Also the resource extraction increase- is this just for the initial colonization or does this continue as long as the colony was founded by an Akkan, or can you use the ability in the gravity well of your planet continually every 360 as long as the ship has AM?
-
Dunov Battlecruiser: Magnetize now interrupts abilities that are being channeled.
3. does this apply only to sc or enemy caps now?
Shield Restore description amended to remove implied secondary effect.
4. what was the secondary effect?
5. "Fixed bug with Cluster Warheads ......" In what situations is this now useful?
THANKS
1) Yes
2) Passive ability, once the Akkan colonizes a planet then a countdown of 360 seconds begins. Any functioning extractors in that planet's gravity well operate at a higher efficiency level than usual.
3) Strike craft don't have any channeling abilities. It applies to any vessel with a channeling ability (you magnetize a larger ship, which in turn pulls strike craft toward it - you don't actually magnetize the strike craft themselves).
4) It never existed, so it's just a clearer description.
5) Just about all, but especially when facing large numbers of enemies that are gathered together.
That is exactly what it means, provided that there are that many free asteroids in the planet, i.e. not occupied by enemy extractors and not exceeding the number of asteroids by the planet).
It applies to the first 360s after initial colonization.
It applies to enemy caps, since SCs do not have channeling abilities.
The description implied that it removes negative statuses, if I remember correctly.
I'm actually fairly certain it stated that the target's shield mitigation would be boosted for a brief time. Of course, that was wrong and I'm not really sure how that got in there. My guess is that they forgot to take it out after a pre-release test with that effect.
If you guys haven't noticed it...there is a TRAILER for DIPLOMACY on the HOME page...check it out.
played a comp stomp last night and the results were great for TEC updates. Bringing the Akkan out and going right for metal1 made a huge difference in early game econ with the addition of maybe 20 seconds extra in terms of strategic planning. going to 2civ res makes a greater difference if you are close to a lava/ice ( I was close to ice), and additionally the cobalts are able to push through militia planets allowing a quicker col and were useful through midgame as front line. Of course the metal/crystal was important, but as always with a sound tec strat I set up a clear trade post route with the empire and additionally upgraded the sb's with trade ports (and remote construction), I was very surprised at the clear economic dominance and stability of the fleet composition to address multiple enemy armadas. The caps were well padded and those cobalts lasted throughout as cap flak (I suspect just the little buff gave them enough points to withstand the heat and allow the repair bots and dunov's time to heal.. that would be very exciting if some how they tweaked just enough that these units can soak up more fp on the frontlines with support ships nearby.)
That extra early boost gives alot of forward momentum to the faction now. My second cap was a sova right away, as I wanted to see it through the level 6 rapid manufacturing (even though it is difficult to attain, but leading up embargo all the way up I feel is more important than SC heavies .. unless the enemy has SC based fleet comps), I would usually go with a kol in most other cases, but I wanted to see if the hype was right, and again, kudos this might be the way to go. The Sova performed very well, 3 wings and a fourth soon after coupled with LC and LRM is a great support group capable of advancing with the Akkan and creating nasty embargo/attrition tactics which makes the TEC a complex offensive-based faction. I always say it is more than just winning the immediate planetary battle (and if you cannot size up the situation before entering the fray, then the fleet should not be in the well anyways). I always liked the embargo concept and this time I leveled 3 (%100) and the post game stats reveal this is a devastating attrition and the additional funds are crucial in advancing the tech tree, and a good companion to the Akkan strategies. The sova has a great offensive item, as well as the backbone of a strong SC fleet, and the capability once level6 is attained, to switch roles and maintain the forward construction bases while not actively involved in embargo duties (and at level 2/3 trade ships cannot jump, and the fleet SC just mops them up.. which additionally affects the end game stats).
Well as the game advanced and I kept bringing starbases with remote construction facilities online, in the end game the sova leveled up on the frontlines as my akkan just capped the enemy desert (and at even lvl2, akkan brought all the planets resources online), and the starbase and planet began to produce units very fast to bolster the fleet. it is a distinct advantage when the strategy plays out right, very very smart. The HC has also clearly dominated with some highly advanced AI (I noticed their targeting choices and battle strategy was more effective than the last patch). I saved multiple points of the game and went back and forth testing strategies and units, all in all the TEC faction got a huge boost in exploiting on their strengths, and there are a couple (even a couple, I would say, means a greater versatility, especially besides lrm spam for choosing how best to expand and stabilize an empire on multiple fronts), really really solid strategies which increase the effectiviness of the special abilities, which theoretically, would create clear dominance over a similarly skilled opponent who is not able to force-multiple long-term architectural empire building strategies at the same pace, or create an overpowering single-unit based strategy. I Would like to hear feedback from others as well regarding the new patch. I also did notice my computer froze twice, I figure because I whooped the tin cans so hard, it did not happen in the other versions.
I only noticed the colonizing bug occured when I got level 3 colonization - but until that point, things worked fine (I also had 3 mines available around the desert planet that the bug occured). Other than that, I haven't tried the other caps yet, but I aim to once the hotfix comes out.
ya... we need the hotfix thing.
Given the fact that the halcyon and sova now turn into powerhouses after they hit lvl 6, shouldnt skiranta's clone frigate get a boost too?? 3 cloned frigates are kindoff weak
(to the devs) can u guys put a visual effect only visible to the player who activated the ability so the the players know which ones are real an which ones comes with a time limit??
Lmao the vasari pose at the end is hilarious. This expansion is going to be fun. Allthough it said spring 2010 i thought it was coming out a bit earlier in 2010
it depends on what your cloning. for example... cloning an LRM or a flack... ya thats kinda silly... however, if you clone a carrier... well that is just, if not more powerful than anima tempest... anima tempest kicks out 60 strike craft... that is 6.667 equevilent squads of fighters.... by cloning a carrier, you how have 6 squads of strike craft... but these strike craft last alot longer, are rebuilt, and once their carriers die, they can still fight for a bit... but its not an instant thing like tempest.
3 more overseers at the right time can be REALLY helpfull... like not losing that capitalship/starbase helpful.
3 more subverters can be really evil if you can use thier distortion field right. (nothing like a few seconds of free damage for you)
3 more hcs... well, is ok.... 36 free fleet supply.... or whatever. if you can get them to somehow target your clones... then thats some nice meat shielding.
seige frigs are still expencive... build one, clone it, and send your fleet else where while your 4 seige frigs do some bombing.
perhaps you notice a fleet about to jump onto your astroid... with no defences... clone that lone construction ship, and now you can build 4 repair bays in the time of one (or, at a minimum... your constructor ships have 4 chances to finish that repair bay if the enemy attacks your constructor ships (which they tend to do))
if you have an advent or tec team mate... not entirely sure if this works... but clone a few starbase constructors for him... only having to pay for the cost of deployment is MUCH cheaper than having to build the constructor in the first place!! if he uses all three clones... he saved 6000 credits, 1050 metal and 750 crystal!... now that seems worth while.
your argument would have convinced me if not for the fact that the cloned frigates dissapear after a short while or the fact that the ability has a heavy anitmatter cost and long cooldown.....
Also, Replicate Forces can clone Siege Platforms, which of course really helps with sieging planets. Looking at the Carriers again, they have become really good. In fact, I could see that building two Capital Carriers is actually a very good idea! Having two Halcyons will essentially allow the Advent to dominate SC battles; both Telekinetic Push and many more SC is an enormous benefit. Skirantras with Scramble Bombers is actually fairly viable when upgraded, and two or more Sovas make the perfect raiding group for TEC!
And also a note on the Antorak. With Distort Gravity's increase to turn rates, it has the benefit of aiding Overseers and Subverters greatly. It's really become a good support capital.
I would kidna not mind if the cloned frigates stayed for good.
I remember using Replicate Forces to clone my scouts to clear mines faster . Otherwise, I usually clone support cruisers.
Oh, I had a question about Subverters. The infocard says the aoe disable duration is 30 seconds, I already know they don't last that long against caps and structures but it does not seems to last 30 seconds against frigates either (that I could tell). So...how are we supposed to tell how long the disable will last?
If cloned frigates were permanent, you could your fleet size, potentially, would no longer be limited by your fleet supply. I guess it would never work out in MP and we all like stomping comps anyways...but can you imagine 16 of these using Replicate Forces? You could churn out an army in an instant (for antimatter) and everytime it cools down, do it again.
If they stayed for good, it'd become the new RA. Much more limited than the old RA, but still an endless procession of frigates. Not to mention you could easily push yourself over your command limit that way. Replicate forces needs help, but making those units permanent goes too far.
well u could set it to only clone frigates if there is command poitns for it. Its not hard.
The replicate forces thing is really only useful for making additional siege platforms (and that really DOES make it so much faster)... Generally if you're at the point where 3 overseers or subverters is a big difference, it's time to turn tail and gtf outta dodge. Also, replicating a few more carriers inside of an enemy grav well (the duration is too low to bother doing it in advance), is of limited use due to the time the squadrons take to form.
Even with all of that in mind, the biggest problem is the AM cost and the CD. They're too much to make it really useful. This is something that would have better served as a regular ability, because as an ultimate, it's lack-lustre. It's kinda similar to what the other carriers can do, but not as good.
I'd actually endorse scrapping it, and making a new more Vasari-ish seeming ability for the Skirantra. Besides, where do you find 1800 crewmen for a trio of freshly minted Enforcers? And for that matter, why do they blow up after a couple of minutes? Are you trying to tell me the thing is entirely run by AI and is built so shoddily that it shakes itself apart? It just doesn't make any kind of sense.
How about it generates a swarm of some small AI controlled suicide craft that ram the target or something? Maybe that do extra damage against Module armor to boot. Or little mobile phase-mines that when they explode disorient things they affect for a few seconds, or disable engines, or any number of strange nanite induced effects. Anything is better than Replicate Forces as it stands (although I'd miss the replicated siege platforms ).
-Itharus
I see no problem with RF. It is a powerfull ability, espectially if used on support frigs, constructors or other support ships. The time limit may need increased slightly, but not by much.
And no, they should not stay for good.... that would become WAYYYY too IMBA.
Yeah that was a great pose by the Vas at the end...I can't wait for this micro either...
Yeah lol the vasari looked like he couldnt wait for the diplomacy to hurry up and end.
Id have to dissagree as it is Replicate forces is very good since it can be applied depending on situation if you need to kill a planet get a few seige platforms if you need to hold off an enemy assualt get enforcers (which when combined with the new reintegration as of the patch can be very effective) when you are being attack by large numbers of fighters or bombers get sentinels. The point is that it is very effective at turning the tide of a battle when something you did not expect happens for instance the enemy bringing a large number of fighters it can be very useful in turning the tide of a battle when victory could go either way. (Aside from this the Vasari carrier is loaded with powerful support abilities even scramble bombers is now of use since the patch rebalanced everything to make fighters less effective as well as strengthed the ability.)
As a note replicating subverters is very effective since you can use it to disable many enemy ships with just one ability.
Anyone know if there are going to be new ships? Man all this sins stuff makes me want them to make a sins 2.
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