I love the game and try to play often but here is my take:
Connectivity - certainly much better but a problem for some
"PRO Aholes" - don't get me wrong, a lot of the "PROS" are perfectly nice and respectful folks BUT a small minority are outright belligerant. I mean I know enough to disregard their insults and taunts (often from team members no less) but a casual gamer trying to learn the game might find this a HUGE turn-off.
So if MP dies (and appears to be), then the offenders will have no one left to play with but themselves (pun intended).
Just my 2 coins.
What point are you trying to make here? That a plurality of gamers prefer a larger number of simpler characters, and that's a bad thing?
What's the difference? The same amount of graphical assets need to be created for two modes of one god (e.g., fire and ice TB) versus two separate gods. I think I had mentioned this in another thread, but DG graphics, being on the high-end, may actually be detrimental to the longevity of the game because of the investment required to develop new gods, maps, etc.
I wasn't aware the Multiplayer was dying? Is it sick? Did I not get the email?
That's not related to proxies. The problem with ping is that they only show response time. They don't take into account upload bandwidth.
Demigod uses more upload bandwidth than the typical game (which is why it requires a broadband connection). So what happens is that once the game gets going, you have people with really low end (fast ping but low bandwidth DSL or ISDN for instance) setups bringing it down for everyone.
Actually there's really no evidence to suppor that most *paying* gamers want large numbers of simpler characters.
When these games are released, we will be able to see what their sales are. At the end of the day, the goal of a commercial game developer is to generate revenue.
We could, for instance, give Demigod away and have a huge installed base right now. Would that prove that people want only 8 demigods?
The number of Demigods that I'd like to see in the game before I'd start to feel squeamish would be maybe 16. So there's my 2 cents, even with an unlimited budget I would have been against having more than 16 demigods in the base game (I could imagine an additional 16 being "unlocked" with favor points but that's a different topic).
Where I would put more effort in is on items, maps, and especially favor items.
I think there's a point to be made here. While I personally want the 2 new demigods more than anything else for the next big update, this brings up the whole quality/quantity conundrum. So far, the base 8 Demigods are most definitely of quality. I'd rather stick with the precedent than add more demigods for the sake of quantity.
I think 12-16 Demigods would definitely be enough variety. But what will be come 10 soon should help. And yeah, with 10 demigods the next step would obviously be 10 maps
I know there's some plans for further Demigods down the line after modding comes out from Stardock if I read correctly.
No evidence? HoN has already been preordered by 35,000 people, and it's still in closed beta, several months away from release. How many preorders did Demigod have at that point?
Anyway the most popular game in the world has a limited number of classes (9 at launch, only one added over the course of 5 years) which have different specs to allow them to be played differently, so saying that DG needs a massive roster to be successful is absurd on its face. There's clearly a lot of people who enjoy the massive rosters, the success of games like marvel vs. capcom and the likely success of LoL/HoN reflect that clearly, but it doesn't prove a plurarality think that way or that there's no niche for DG.
TB and QoT are the only two DGs with form shifting or graphic alteration which appear to require a totally new model, and I'm not even positive TB's models is even rebuilt so much as re-animated and and given alternate particle effects. Note that the other 8 DGs are single-form characters.
Also HoN has a fantastic matching system and faster gameplay. I prefer DG's gameplay but I much prefer HoN's matching.
My point is that when you make the claim that sales prove one aspect of DG should have been done differently you're basically assuming all other aspects of the games are identical or the differences are trivial, which is clearly not the case. You also ignore the impact of advertising.
Hundreds of thousands of total sales of Demigod so far.
Also, where do you base your number of pre-order sales on? I've seen nothing on HoN pre-orders.
But it's easy to make claims, if HoN ends up on the top 10 NPD sales lists when it ships for a couple of months then we'll know it did "well enough".
I hope it does.
NPD sales sounds strange for german users
When I preordered it said I was the 29000th-something person to preorder. Since that was a few weeks ago, I'm assuming it to be around 35000 by now.
I think that an ultimate number of 16 demigods (8 dark/8 light) is a good solid number as well (with as many maps). I would imagine that it becomes much more difficult to differentiate roles, abilities, etc. when the number of demigods gets passed 20. Repetition and redundancy would become very hard to avoid.
nvm.
Obscenitor: I think you missed my point (or more likely I didn't express it clearly enough). Although each DG has a bigger set of skills (with associated assets) than HoN or LoL characters, they also tend to gravitate towards two or maybe three different builds using those skills. So is there really any difference between having one character with two or three personalities, or three characters with one personality each?
One could argue there's a strategic factor in not revealing the true nature of your character until you are into the game, but that's easily handled with a blind-pick option during match-making.
Agreed. Whenever I check stats there is always over 1000 people playing the game. There is NOTHING dead about that. Nothing at all....Get concerned when the numbers hit 300.
Agreed. It isnt a purely "casual" game - but sits pretty far from the hardcore side (as you mentioned). It can be played at a competitive level but that doesnt make it a competitive game. Im happy a game like this was made where I dont have to be 100% dedicated to playing everyday but can still compete easily at top level. Def. not a bad thing.
Anyway - I will tell you why the gameplay does reflect the "casualness" of the game.1. Has a low skill ceiling. You cannot really argue this case. The game is easy to pick up, and easy to master (easier than most games). The game was designed like this. Everyone knows it, and Stardock/GPG have agreed with this too. When I play games its so obvious that the most important thing is the build/Demigod Combination and items I take with my Demigod - not my skill. This is a serious downfall when it comes to competitive gaming.
2. The gameplay is pretty slow for a competitive games. Slow paced games seem be very unattractive for the competitive community. When I say slow, I just mean slow compared to competitive games.
The game is for groups of people who know each other - so what? That has nearly nothing to do with competitiveness. Nearly all MMORPG's are for groups of people who know each other - does that make them competitive? A few MMORPG's are, but a very very large proportion are far from it.There is nothing insulting about saying this game was designed mainly for the casual crowd - at all. Yes, you can still play it at a competitive level if you want, its just you wont get the same competitive/hardcore experience you would normally get from other competitive RTS's - lets say CoH or DotA for example. Dont forget too the majority of players in basically all games are in the "casual/not hardcore" crowd, and so this is where the money and action is at. I feel like this was a really defensive comment from you Poly.Ill be honest - the only reason Demigod will not die for a very long while is because of Frogboy. If someone like him were to work for a CnC RTS or a competitive RTS game.....wow!
Oh I disagree with this strongly. I can tell my coworkers who are testing/playing what they should buy but knowing when to engage and not engage, knowing which flags to get when, knowing how to effectively use team combinations are where the real skill lies imo.
The mechanics are easy to learn. Beating another team that knows what its doing is not easy even remotely.
The comment was defensive. The whole Demigod is for casual player thing really makes it sound like Demigod is for n00bs who can't handle "competitve games". Its just one of those things that really get me.
As for GR? Completely dead. Until next week. Frogboy's said he'll support the site.
I tried HoN. I like Demigod far better. Like polynomial said, it's very easy to learn. It's far harder to beat another team competitively. I still have people on my friends list from Day 1 that play the game. I think what happened is all of the rude people left to play HoN. I'm fine with that.
Skill ceiling is really a matter of opinion. I think the fact I can play Demigod with one hand and still do well sometimes make me feel like that (not the only reason).
Its still high enough to make it a playable game but its just lower than I would have liked. When I say it has a low skill ceiling, I am comparing it to games such as CCG, CoH, AoK, SC, WC etc. etc.
Well whatever is said about Demigod and who it was designed for - I know it wasnt designed for the "hardcores" (this is usually what the mainstream competition is built around) and so, who was it designed for? The problem with the term "casuals" is that it is very loose. What do you define as "casual"? Whats the line that seperates someone playing the game at a hardcore level and just playing it casually. I define it as everyone who is not "hardcore" (or reaching that stage). But that is just me. Some of you guys may define completely differently.
I dont play it because:
1. I've realised this game was designed for casual gamers. The gameplay reflects this.
So let me rephrase this for you Poly:
The reason I stopped playing - because it wasnt designed for the hardcore crowd - and I am part of that hardcore crowd. And the gameplay does reflect that, and Frogboy has said this too (that the game wasnt designed for the hardcore crowd) and so there isnt much arguing agaisnt it.
I'd have to be skeptical on this statement, if you look at an unofficial chart such as xfire that clearly shows the number of players playing is reducing
http://www.xfire.com/games/demigod/Demigod/
Is it accurate of course not, it only uses players that use xfire - however it indicates a trend in the wrong direction. Updates in a game always add people back into a game and I suspect if word gets out regarding the updates then players will return to see what they are. The 2 new Demigods should cause a significant increase of returning players.
I do also think that Stardock need to gain their love back for the playerbase, an example is this locking of Journals that is occuring whenever you post there, from my perspective your Journals and then the constructive comments afterwards added to the game - maybe that is just me but certainly locking the threads don't add anything imho and comes across as Stardock wanting to make a statement and hear nothing from the players.
Tals
Im personally waiting for the 2 new demigods. Not playing again till those are in, guess its all LoL beta for a while longer.
Indeed, the strategy is in the teamwork. I think Dalzyk is merely pointing out there is limited personal skill required to play DG effectively, it's all about positioning with your teammates and coordinating your attacks rather than requiring high APM.
But maybe this begs another question: if you can effectively judge the skill level of your players and you have a large enough player pool, does it actually matter whether there are 50 tricks to learn to compete at the top level?
DG offers a very level playing field. A good player won't be doing recognisably different things to an average one, just their team will probably win at the end. Teamwork is very subtle and difficult to see in action, whereas in the "50 tricks" style games it's very obvious who is a good player and who is not. I guess playing Demigod identified for me that having personal challenge in performing difficult tricks, such as kiting melee with multiple units in something like Dawn of War, is actually just as important as requiring teamwork, and the two should coexist even in a game about teamwork.
Perhaps a good analogy is something like soccer, where personal skills can wow the crowd and win the small battles going on around the pitch, but teamwork is going to decide the winning team most of the time no matter how good one player is at dribbling. DG has the teamwork aspects nailed down to a point, but I don't think the personal skills of any player are relevant enough.
I was nodding away right up till here. I think the personal skills, within a team, of each team members are important to the whole. It's not about clicks per minute, rather simply comprehension; understanding the situation as a whole and making personal, moment to moment decisions - when to press that half damaged Tower, when to pull back from that nearly dead UB. You can tell the difference from someone who 'gets it' and someone who's winging it, even in public games.
Exactly, this is why I like demigod. The game is NOT about clicks per second (yes, this was changed on purpose), but rather about understanding situations and how to work with them.
I think when replays get up and the new information in the connection pop up, we will start to see more team vs. team. When we actually see good teams vs. good teams, people will realize there is actually a lot of subtle strategy and depth to this game. Just because it isn't the exact same style as some games before it doesn't mean it lack strategy, just some of the strategy is different.
The team dynamics in Demigod are easy to understand but are constantly evolving.
Even the strategies in Demigod are evolving over time as players discover new combinations.
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