ToA has been out a long time overall. I was psyched to get this as it advertised diverse races and techs etc. But I'm finding that most of the game is a broken fiasco. It has disappointed me terribly as, until recently, I had thought highly of Stardock and thought of them as one of the few companies that actually cared about the consumer and wouldn't release what they knew was broken crap. I'm going to go back to playing Dread Lords - which feels a bit boring after seeing the potential of different buildings/tech trees/races - but I'd rather have an actual working game than a pretty sci-fi space opera on the surface that is crud underneath. Shame on Stardock and Brad and everyone else for releasing something they knew wasn't playable and then not supporting it.
michaelwhittaker71@yahoo.com I'll also take them
I like twilight of the arnor also I like dread lords I didn't like dark avatar. In dread lords it was a challenge. Then someone had to cry the dread lords is to hard. Ruining everything.Then dark avatar came out good game with a crappy ai. Then twilight of the arnor came out, good game. The thalans, torians, and iconians are challenging. What I didn't like they scaled down the drengin, terrans, korath, and krynn. I didn't like what they did to the espionage of the krynn and iconians. It definately is an improvement over dark avatar. I don't agree it's the best in it's class. Try civilization. I don't agree on the mods. They take a mod to make a game, and leave the other good stuff from other mods alone. I've read all these ideas, and think you should be on a couple of other posts. Ideas for galactic civilization 3, and tactics. The game could be better. You guys give me ideas for the ai. I'll try some. I can't download mods though I'm registered I would like to know why. One thing I would like to see different, instead of giving bonuses on higher levels. Give a better ai on harder levels. These crutusums are great. I'm tired of hearing how the game is to hard. Also I would like to see the other ai's work, and I'm tired of seeing a good ai scaled down on the upgrade to make another ai look good.
I turn off surrenders
Can you just send them to michaelwhittaker71@yahoo.com instead
I like twilight the only AI's that are challenging however is the torians, iconians, and thalans. I've been thinking about customizing. Any time I've ever played the AI I find that even when they don't research weapons on there own, if you give them space weapons that fixes the problem. Start all custom races with space weapons, and most of them will have lasers with rarely guns. Compared to dark avatar comments baffle me, comparing AI in dark avatar to dread lords or twilight of the arnor, ai versus ai. The krynn kicks everyone else's but. It's so not fair. At least in twilight and dread lords there's always an AI to counter the head honcho. I would add the iconian to the torian and terran AI.
You can fix your points 1 and 5. Disable the surrenders to fix one, and increase the tech speed to fix 5. The others you can probably partly fix by modifying the races - making them use a different AI or tweaking the parameters (I think you can do this in game).
I am not a great player, but I once got beaten very badly by Thalans who built up their military and conquered every one, one after another. I hoped to research the tech victory before they came for me, negotiated some treaties with them in the hope to keep them off my back, but they realised what I was up to and dispatched me promptly. I was quite impressed. Though perhaps my AI standards are not as high as yours.
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It doesn't.
And I agree with topic starter on every point. Shame on Stardock!
Also check out this mod a guy made to help sort things out and tell what you think.
https://forums.galciv2.com/382002/page/2/#replies
If there is any feedback to them then I would like to make it. They just robbed me of my money I think.
In the original list, 5 is not a bug, but an actual feature ("tech inflation"). I actually like it a lot, as it helps deal with one of my problems with DA - games finished too fast even on a very large map.
The remainder of those points are all valid, but they're also fairly sporadic. For example, for my first few games the Drengin failed to colonize and were always in dead last - the notorious "evil races not colonizing" bug. In one of my current games, they spread like locusts and virtually boxed me in. As another example, in one game the Iconians did very badly by neglecting to build improvements on many of their colonies. While I haven't actually looked at their planets, in my other current game the Iconians are ranked #1 in about two-thirds of the game categories, which suggests that they're just might be doing a little better this time...
The bugs do need to be fixed, but they don't affect every game, and in some cases may actually be part of that race's personality. The Thalans have always been coded to race for large hulls (the Krynn are the same way) before anything else. The races that neglect their military are often practicing a strategy I like to follow myself of focusing on my industry and research, then using them to crush any fools that dare attack me. And so forth.
I believe that tech speed should be adjusted to the size of the map you're playing. The bigger the map the slower research rate should be chosen. And I do not think this is a bug -- the problem just that AI's aren't doing anything right at all with the new tech trees.
The first 4 point's are still the biggest nuts in the game. Before coming to this forum I've made a motherload of test games and the bugs mentioned were presented every time.
And the sporadic successes of the flawed AI isn't something we paid for, right? The games should be challenging every time otherwise they are hardly worth our while.
And to be stupid AI and suck in every game isn't the part of personality. Just compare with DL where all the races expand so quickly and build military so powerful. That's something that should be present here.
I feel there's a definite difference between bugged/stupid behavior (evil races not colonizing) and AI using differing playstyles (not developing a military until attacked). The former needs to be fixed (obviously), the latter does not. The fact that the AI doesn't always do the same thing helps a lot at creating a unique feel to each race.
There is a difference between "always flawed" and "sporadically flawed" AI. It's not that bugged AI sometimes succeeds anyway - it's that sometimes the AI messes up and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't it's a significant improvement over the DL and DA AIs. I consider an AI that sometimes is terrible and sometimes more challenging then the previous games worth my money. You might disagree, but I, personally, believe I got my money's worth.
Also, here is a Krynn dreadnought from my last DA game:
So the Krynn, at least, have always built poorly armed large ships.
Edit: I should note that I'm not saying that Twilight doesn't need work. It does, in some cases quite badly. What I'm saying is that it's doesn't need work so badly as to be "broken" as the OP says or a waste of money as you (seem to) imply.
What playstyles do suggest to let the enemy take all the resources and planets from under your nose and then wait for the inevitable? Because it doesn't matter how soon that AI starts building up military -- with 5 planets vs 40 it hopelessly outclassed. The only feel about that races I get is the feel that they are damned to be losers for eternity. So sad.
I did ten more test games yesterday and I take back what I said about sporadic success -- the AI is ALWAYS flawed.
I also finished testing the maklar mod.
It did help a lot. With the tech trees returned to the DL style all the stock races began expanding a lot better and built a military a lot better. However they still behaive strange (they never build a trade routes or try to trade techs with me for example).
After all I decided to go back to the Dark Avatar. If the testing of it's AI will satisfy me I will not be playing ToA untill a proper patch is released (And I guess it won't happen any time soon) and will play DA instead
Try maklar mod anyway see how it changes things a lot.
Actually, from what I've read on the forums it seems like the AI's flawed behavior actually varies in severity from player to player; it's not just a matter of opinion. Most of the bugs are tied to some aspect of the game (for instance, colonization failure is connected somehow to influence), so while it's not possible to tell what factors are responsible I think your AI may actually be more flawed then mine.
For instance:
In my games races not building a military has no connection to how much they expanded. A race that expands poorly will be too weak to compete whether it builds a military or not, but a race that expands well will be able to build up fast even if they neglect their military at first. With a few exceptions (listed below) how well a race expands relates to its starting position just like in DA/DL.
The only race that is consistently and seriously messed up, in my games, is the Drengin. They have had their good moments, but rarely. From what I've read, while it again varies between players, the Drengin have always (in TOA) been the worst hit by the evil race colonization bug. Often the Yor and Korath aren't affected; the only time I've ever seen the Yor affected myself was in a test game where I had a huge bonus to influence.
The other races all vary. I've had successful games by the Terrans, Altarians, Arceans, Torians, Yor, Korx, Thalans, Iconians, and Krynn. The Korath and Drath have never done particularly well, but I don't use them much and I'm fairly certain it relates more to starting position then anything else (I've never heard of any bugs with the Drath behavior, at least). Some races (Torians) always do well, but with one of the best SAs and an AI module that specializes at colony rushing the Torians have always done well. I've set the Drengin to a generic personality, and the rest of the races work fine as is.
Again, I agree the game needs a patch. But in my experience, I have to respectfully disagree that it's unplayable without a patch.
If you want to evaluate the bad start factor try a test game in the galaxy where only you and the test race are present. This will let you see if the race is expanding properly when there's no one to get in their way or to box them in.
I have; all the races listed as "successful" but the Yor expanded well. The Yor didn't, but they have performed well in larger games.
To avoid getting boxed in on crowded maps, the Yor need an edge in speed. Their Super Isolationist ability (reduces ship speed, allows colonisation of barren worlds) gives them an edge only if they gain enough planets and influence to form a big blob, and it doesn't give them much of an edge unless their ships are faster than 3 pc/week.
I pick a +1 speed boost for them, which puts them on par with the stock Terran race config. Though speed is of less importance later on, there is no later on for them if they're crawling around unsuccessfully trying to grab planets.
Please read my regurgitated "most evil races not expanding" just above this post which was originally posted in 2008 and alot was discussed about the problem. Has anyone come up with a good selection of what personalities to change the evil races to get around the problem? I was trying a few but its been a long time and maybe someone has already come up with some good combinations. Those which keep the evil races truely evil and don't make them into nice guys? Have any other workarounds been developed? THanks in advance.
I use 8 for the Yor and 11 for Drengin. The Yor on 8 do a good job getting to the Barren planets.
It's increasingly looking like a number of the other problems in Twilight (those not related to the colonization issues) may be tied to strange categorization of some unique techs. For a particularly striking example, look at the post on the Iconian tech tree here:
https://forums.galciv2.com/400674/page/2
I and some of the other modders on that thread are experimenting with putting those techs into more sensible categories. I intend to write up my results when I'm done. It might cause the AI to make much more use of the new Twilight techs.
Hi all, I have just started playing Gal Civ II (Dark Avatar) and I am loving it. I recently got an email promo from Stardock saying that I could buy the TA expansion for 25% off. Does the expansion really break the AI? Should I just save myself the money and stick to DA? I'd like to be playing this game for years, and I don't want anything to compromise the great experience I have been having with DA.
I'd recommend you buy it. The AIs that are not messed up are, in my opinion, a lot more challenging then those in DA. And, as I mentioned above, the community has been working on ways to fix the AI's mistakes. It's a shame that Stardock released it in an obviously unfinished state, but it's not "broken". And the unique tech trees add a lot to the game, especially now that I've got the AI taking more advantage of them.
If all else fails, all you've lost is the money you spent on it. I find DA still just as enjoyable to play, and I even venture back to the original Dread Lords on occasion. I don't think buying TA will have any effect on how you view DA.
Having some success with overcoming few issues in TA that are discussed above. Here is a short list of the changes I made and reasons. I also gave alot of thought to the tech slowdown and came up with what I believe is an intriquing possible solution but it needs testing.
I prefer long drawn out games, this is my playstyle. My usual setup: Terran, industrialist, 7 customization points, 9 races, crippling, gigantic map, abundant hab planets, uncommon planets, occasional stars, scattered density, anomalies rare, asteroids uncommon, very slow tech rate, 8 minor races, extreme planets rare, occasional random events. I use cntl-N until I get a map which seems to give everyone a fair chance or maybe I am at a disadvantage.
Please note changes below were only tested on the above setup.
-reduced galactic resource mining from 4 & 5 to 1 for subsequent mining station upgrades. The first starbase gives you 5 and I just felt getting 4 or 5 each time thereafter is too destablizing. Makes for more interesting game and less chance for race who gets lucky having alot to dominate. But they are still worth grabbing. This was one of my first changes and made a huge difference in itself.
-reduced top weapons to 70% of original damage value. Just a tweak I prefer and makes it more interesting in late stages.
-added +10 to propulsion speed every other propulsion tech starting with impulse. This helps to speed up the ai on very large maps and makes them more competitive in battles. I probably need to work on aivalues for these so they go after the techs more decisively. But I did notice ai's seem to have faster fleets which is a plus.
-reduced arcean war rooms creative ability boost to 5. Felt 10 was just too much but see below.
-lowered luck from 25 to 10.
-lowered creative from 25 to 15 and eliminated it as an additional game start bonus. (see next)
-gave all races (including minor) creative ability to help offset tech inflation slowdown.
-thinking of putting in incremental creativity boost of say +5 then +10? for every other propulsion tech. This would be for all races and might help to overcome the tech inflation slowdown issue! Of course I need to determine what value it should increment. So this will go up gradually but I don't want it going up too much or it will destabilize everything.
-made all races get 7 logistics to start game. Felt previous values were unfair to some. This also helps to facilitate decent fleets for all in the early stages and I see its working very well in recent games.
-customization points to 7 for all races. I may adjust this a bit but seems ok for now.
-made arcean propulsion tech identical to other races. This is just temp until I can figure out how to get their unique tech back in but since I made so many other changes with propulsion it was not fair to them. But believe I can work navigation centers back in but its not high priority right now. Too many other things to work on.
I made alot of changes to raceconfigs but tried to keep the overall theme of the original setup. So the evil races will still have those hitpoints, weapons, etc but I also lessened up the diplomacy penalties. All races received 50 points to work with and I only used 10, 20, etc, not 5's. The aipersonalities were adjusted, I feel that 7 is definitely broken so drengin and yor became 10, korath became 8 and korx remains 11. Aggression was also adjusted somewhat but remains similar to what it was before, just tweaked a bit. Well Drengin is up to 85 and terrans are 55, etc. I also beefed up the minor races to make them tougher and help resist invasion longer. Took away a few Thalan starting techs, imo they seem to have way too many. This is still a work in progress bit gives a general idea of where I am at.
Some rules I made up on the fly for my play style...
-I pause for 7 turns before moving any ships. This is my choice to make game more competitive.
-no building innovative complex until turn ? (need to determine) I was cranking out transports with +1 speed from earth and it was just too destabilizing.
-max major race treaties with me: 2 economic and 2 research until turn ? (need to determine) I was just doing too well with so may treaties.
Quite frankly, the recent games I have been playing are much better with these changes. But I still notice things slow down later due of course to that tech inflation kicking in. I am hopeful the incremental creative ability boost might help. I am not ready to make this a mod but wanted to get the info out and see what others have to say. Maybe get some feedback that could help further. Thanks.
Any comments, suggestions welcome.
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