Please don't let this become a flame thread, I for one actually think we got a decent discussion going here, atleast people are giving arguments for their opinions, this little fact alone means it's better than <99% of internet discussions.

I've seen the "if they don't get money, why should they keep doing it?" sentense a couple of times, and would like tohook in there. For me there's a big difference between the game studios and the (greedy) publishers behind them. In my opinion game studios should keep doing what they are doing and get their creativity out there! Some publishers however should stop what they are doing, and change their business models. Art (I consider games to be art, like music, movies, etc) should never be about money, but it also shouldn't be free. We can have both! Unfortunately we seem to go further and further from the (ideal) middle way, as both parties (consumers and producers) harden their methods and ideals. It feels to me as if we are having this 'fight' in the world with only the fight in our minds, and not the solution we all should work towards. Meh I feel like I'm repeating myself. Good thing is that publishers like SD are heading the right way (together with Impulse). I've already bought 3 games in the past 4 months, which is a lot for me, just because Impulse has great deals. If they can convince other publishers to not screw EU customers then they'd probably sell twice more.

I would disagree. There is a marked difference between a publishing corporation like EA and a development studio like Ironclad. In fact, the only reason why I am against piracy in principle is because of the developers. Having seen on more than one occasion how publishers can totally destroy someone's idea, ruin their vision and box in their creative drive in the name of profit, if those publishers employed robots making games, I'd stick a feather in my cap, pull on green tights and call myself Digital Robin Hood right away.

But the fact is that piracy has become a default scapegoat for everything that goes wrong with a coroporation's profits. Its always pirates, how come as someone has already said, that its never the fault of the people calling the shots when it comes to what is published and in what form?

I lauded Stardock's approach to these matters on more than one occasion. I purchased both the SoaSE and Entrenchment online, had zero issues, the prices were not manipulated unfairly according to the region I live in, activation was quick and easy. Since then I had to reinstall the game several times, once on a completely different machine and had zero problems. And best of all, the developers communicate with their customers, even work with the modding community, which is a nice touch considering that modders do bring in extra sales (especially when Star Wars is involved) but are for some reason often ignored and left to fend for themselves.

No invasive software was installed on my computer, nothing tried to interfere with my CD emulators. I don't have to check in with my online "parole server" when I want to run the game.

All that makes a difference between Stardock, Ironclad and big, DRM-crazy corporations like EA. And I certainly don't think they need defending - given their track record, I'd day they ruined more developers than pirates ever did. Not in the direct, bankrupted-into-dust way, but a more insidious one, by ripping the creative but risky soul out of their ideas. Need I mention what EA did to Spore? 'Nuff said.

Once again, pirates are not a factor. If denied their free games, they will NOT buy those same games, and certainly will not buy them in quantities they're used to getting. Nothing stops someone from downloading ten games a week if they want, if they have flat-rate internet it doesn't cost them anything extra. I doubt there are many people out there who can afford buying so many games.

So let's say someone invents a perfect DR protection, and elliminates piracy forever. I would be willing to bet eating my straw hat (the one which I like) that games wouldn't suddenly see a significant influx of sales. Good games would sell well, like they do now. Bad games would sell poorly, like they do now.

Take a look at some of those Asian countries where piracy is so rampant you can buy extremely cheap copies on a newsstand in open daylight. Can we really believe that if someone somehow elliminated all that illegal distribution people would suddenly flock to the legit stores? Personally, I doubt it.

Piracy can only be fought by changing the way people think. You can NOT do that by threatening them with lawsuits, jail or by treating everyone as a potential thief. It hasn't worked throughout the whole of human history, and it certainly isn't going to start working now.

Maybe later -- until then, Piracy (of anything) is a direct cause of unemployment in plenty of industrial sectors; from manufacturing to distributing.

What people can't afford, they simply shouldn't think (to reuse your term) about stealing or much more explicitely... get a salary, work, earn the right to purchase what they decide to. But, THEY can't do that if they don't have a job. Economics 101. Social structure 101. Honesty 101. Moral values 101.

For every or any number of unsold items in stores (be it virtual or down the streets), somebody is losing a job.

Now, think.

Or at what price and in which countries!  As some people have already complained, some game titles are not available via digital distribution in the EU (Australia also) because publishers do not want competion for their 'physical media' sales/distribution.  Now it seems to me that competition is good for the consumer - better variety and pricing, etc - so why do publishers/corporations not want this?  They don't want their 'manufactured' prices on physical media to be driven down... unless somebody else can provide a more feasible and valid explanation?

Another complaint is that a game can sell in the US for *say* USD $29.99, yet in Australia, for example, that same game costs AUD $49.95.  Yes, the US dollar is valued higher, but this price difference does not reflect the exchange rate... and even when the Oz dollar improves against the greenback (85c or more in the dollar), that game remains the same price.  In many cases it's not like shipping is even a factor, not when Asian manufacturers are producing the games media, thus shipping is required to both Australia and the US... and it's certainly not in the case of digital distribution (eg; Steam/Impulse). So yes, it would seem some (if not all) publishers/distributors are 'gouging' in some markets, most notably in the EU, the UK and Australia, though I am sure there are others.

These things contribute to piracy, especially when people see a corporations 'gouging' and trying to extract the maximum they think a market can bear.   People think: "WTF?  Why should I pay twice as much as my US counterpart on an identical item?".  Then a 'Good Samaritan' pirate comes along and saya: "Here you go, a little something to help your hard earned go that little bit further."

Thing is, while pirates and knock-off merchants think they're helping the poor and downtodden, they're actuually exacerbating the problem and honest consumers pay the price.  Whether corporations are losing money to piracy or not, they have to be seen by shareholders, etc, as being proactive to protect profits, and thus, we have DRM and prices remain high/go up to cover (in many cases, supposed) losses.

No, piracy is not the answer! Corporations won't go broke, they'll just come up with better protection methods and hike up prices to protect/maintain their income steams.  What needs to happen is bringing the top 1% - 5%, the upper echelon back to Earth: by reducing their grossly obscene salaries to something more realistic; by stopping the obscene bonuses and billions paid in golden parachutes; by taking away the lurks and perks allowing overseas junkets with 'free rides' for family members; lavish dinners at $1000 a head... and in some cases (the German auto exec), prostitutes at $5000 a night. These excesses are what add greatly to what we pay at the checkout.... stop these excesses and the corporations have no excuse to maintain high prices.

Oh, and before anyone says that corporations can't get execs with the necesassary qualifications unless they pay obscene salaries, that's bullshit.  There'd be plenty of credentialed and qualified people who'd jump at the chance to do the job for a 'fair' salary. Installing fresh talent on 'reasonable' salaries would mean corporations could cut the overpaid 'deadwood' adrift, start afresh and get back to sensible business practices... and I say "deadwood" because too many high profile execs stuff up (cause huge financial losses), receive a golden parachute payout for their trouble and move on to do the same elswhere.

Canada has been hit by such "variations" for soooo long, it's mind boggling to evaluate (through simple observation of the *MADE IN* tags, btw) how much financial advantages corporate america gained by over_pricing their exported items at 1.40+ ratios on average for every products shipped across our mutual border.

In fact, commerce can't keep up with currencies racketeering (stock markets DO favor investment capitalizations of foreign origin and as such, can extort multi-national "funds" from populationS.)  that push up wrongfully perceived value (by consumers) rather than real cost for both sides (items made, shipped *then* shelved).

No wonder the US is scared shit of dollars at par, they suddenly realize that we too could offer some exclusive products in their stores as much as they did for years of an artificially weakened CDN$.

That's what happens when two trading "pseudo-partners" economic interests collide, once balanced out the industrial factors favor *A* side since people need work to produce. What we are witnessing in North America is a job market in turmoil caused by the US losing its "usual"  & "profitable" industrial capacity to international (including Canada, btw) outsourcing.

Sure reads like a manifesto to fairness that even US bankers (bonused lately beyond rational limits) can understand... the financial "systems" stockpiled enough cash outside the working class' hands already.

And by this, i insist, investors & shareholders' means of living (the big cars, the big houses, the big toys, the big meals, the big stash of money -- yep, BIG as in obesity) have let people suffered from starvation worlwide. Check the food bank numbers & estimates for the next ten years only, the statistics are obvious; INC is plunging basic agriculture into, yet again, another derivation in profits.

Capitalism kills. While Pirates want to do the same.

Could it be somehow better (as in efficient) or fair to all, though?

Ah, at last, somebody else calling a spade a spade.  It pisses me off is when people defend corporations, saying they have a right to charge like wounded bulls... to manipulate products so as to inconvenience paying customers.  It's like saying to the corporate big-wigs: "I don't mind paying extra to fund the obscene excesses of the corporate heirarchy... and I don't mind having to jump through hoops to use the product I legitimately paid for.

Corporations suck this attitude right up and believe they have a mandate to do as they please, so no, the excesses and manipulation will continue.  The only way things will change for the better is when consumers unite to say enough is enough... we will no longer tolerate it.... boycotts  Thing is, that's not likely to happen, either.  Too many would still swallow the "must have" hype and hand over their hard earned regardless... and others, with more money than sense, just wouldn't care.  Yup, corporations thrive on human weakness, apathy and stupidity, so it will be more of the same and the socio-economic gap will become so wide it's a chasm consumers can not leap.  Maybe then, when consumers are priced/DRM'ed out of the market, no longer have the propensity to pay, maybe then the corporations will listen.

To put DRM another way!  You live in a quiet street, but because an irresponsible motorist (who doesn't even live in it) is using it as a drag strip, the local authority blocks off the most popular/convenient entry...meaning you have to drive an extra 20 miles, pay $2.00 at 4 tool boths, cross 6 very dangerous intersections and risk damage to your car on an unsealed section of road just to get home.  So, is it right that you and 2000 + other residents in your street are greatly inconvenienced because of the actions of one person?  No, didn't think so.

It could be said that blocking off the street could save a life and therefore is more tolerable.  The same, however, can not be said of DRM... it serves only to protect/maintain profits that, for the most part, drive corporate excesses, and thus, should not be tolerated.  DRM does not deter pirates in the slightset, but rather it pisses off legitimate consumers, of whom, some get pissed off enough to eventually turn to pirated games, music, movies to avoid jumping through the hoops.

Yup, that pretty much covers it... in a nutshell. GREED.

Ironically, Labor Day -- tomorrow.