When you're not on a waiting list at all...even for routine health maintenance, you wait even longer than the people on the lists in Canada, John, and yeah...many people die because of it.  For those of us with inadequate insurance coverage, or no coverage at all, a waiting list sounds like a huge improvement over no hope of being seen at all.

Is that the real reason you're concerned about Obama's plan in the US?  Because it might remove the safety net for Canadians who have the resources to cross the border and bypass the waiting list?  How about you lobby and campaign in your own country to REMOVE the public option before you start having an opinion about what goes on in a country you don't belong to, and hence can't really fully understand NO AVAILABLE SERVICES FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T PAY. It doesn't matter HOW many doctors or clinics, or MRI facilities there are, if you don't have enough money or adequate insurance coverage down here, YOU DON'T GET TO UTILIZE WHAT IS AVAILABLE.

Did you just take an interest in American politics since Obama was elected?  Where were you during the Bush years?  This is just politics as usual in this country--the patricians working deals in government to benefit their cronies, and scamming the plebs to pay for it, causing the plebs to drive the slaves a little bit harder to make up the difference.

Your damn right, that's my problem with it.  You can't see how frustrating it is to live in a country and pay taxes to a country that has the "best" of something in the world, so much so that rich foreigners can access it, but it's own citizens are dying in the streets because they CAN'T afford it?  "Water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink" sort of thing -- it's a TEASE to see clinics on every street corner, hospitals on every block, but to those who who don't have access to adequate insurance, those clinics and hospitals may as well be a big, dark, hole in the ground!  A waiting list sounds like a HUGE improvement to no access whatsoever.

Then give up your socialized medicine and MOVE HERE if you love it so much!  If this is where your heart is, come on down!  Establish yourself, run for office, make dang sure the status quo down here continues.  As for me...I can't afford a passport to leave this place, so I'm going to keep voting for change, because I'm NOT happy with the way it is (and has been) -- it's not right that in the wealthiest country in the world, people are dying in their homes because they can't afford to see a doctor.

Absolutely correct, appropriate and just.

In every country where there is a single payor system, there is two tiered care. One for the hoi-polloi, and the second: preferred, rapid and efficient care for those who pay extra not to wait on line. There is no way around that, unless you have a multi-payor system but that already means there are some who pay more and some, less.

The only option is to have a "public option".  I would hope ANYONE but the government administer it, but in all the years of having the uninsured and the cost of their care shifted onto the insured, not one Insurance Co. objected. That's because it never cost them a cent. So, who else is there?

The public paid one way or the other.

Now, everyone is up in arms for the "poor" Insurance Co.'s that might get driven out of business. I don't get it. Either they are more efficient or less efficient than the gov't. Either they offer more and do it cheaper, or not.

I want the competition increased, the choice increased and the cost driven down at the same time the uninsured get basic and catastrophic care assured.

I say it CAN be done and done right.

An example of the blatant abuse of power by this administration is the fact that all but one of the Chrysler dealers that were closed and essentially screwed out of their businesses were Republicans that did not contribute to the Obama campain. Only one Obama supporter was touched.

I can't disagree with too much of what you're saying, although the "public option" is code for a "single payer" which is code for a government monopoly. The plans are set up in such a way that private insurers will be squeezed out eventually. Having many options is much more desirable; supporting those who can't afford it can be accomplished at the same time as allowing the freedom of purchasing private insurance. It's a great sentiment to want to provide health care for everyone, but it's financially impossible.

There's also the problem of what the appropriate steps are, and, let's face it, some desirable things like providing basic food and accomodation to all are financial catastrophes in practise.

Talking about politics should be outlawed on this site. It justs makes people upset and leads to arguements.

Discussions are ok...arguments .... well there's the passion.

As long as people are respectful, without ad hominum attacks, I don't see a reason against that form of give and take. People are supposed to learn, no?

How about we start outsourcing/insourcing our health care? Like bringing in doctors from other countries that care enough to actually help someone rather than picking and choosing according to someones income to a neutral and centralized facilities built by the people with our tax dollars. OR...how about "We the people" start our own health insurance group...pool all our money into an insurance plan designed by us and for us. Or start flying people to other countries in groups for healthcare paid for by money pooled together by the people. And of course this wouldn't be available to anyone working on government or anyone above a certain income bracket. Basically I think the problem needs to be fixed by the people and not the government....we need less government as it is.

And its only cut and dry according to you...others having differing opinions about the subject. Pretty much like politics.

I'm very late to this thread, but that line caught my attention, not to mention cracked me up.

As for the OP, the issue isn't Beck, it's that privacy disclosure.  This is a perfect example of how the government can leverage its power and expand its control over every aspect of our lives.  Want cash for that clunker?  Well, here's $4500, but in return I take everything about you and your dealership stored on your computer and any other networked computers, personal or business, including the customers using your free wi-fi.  I wonder if the dealers were told about that before they sold any vehicles.  Sorry, but no amount of money is worth that.  The problem will come when you have no choice - Want that electronic bill payment credited to your account?  Just click this little button right here.

I don't think I'm going to participate in the 'Cash for Appliances' program.  Orwell was off by only 25 years.

...to Original Post: OH NO!! The government has the right to watch information I submit to a gov site! ...did anyone watch the video?  God people are sad.  I mean, some stories these guys do actually IS interersting/news worthy...this here is the worst of yellow journalism. 

EDIT- And what you really have to know is the government will take these steps if it feels them neccessary on anyone.  I mean, the NSA used to (Probably still does?) copy about every bit of info going in and out of the US on the net, and since we have a hell of a lot of control over the internet...

Hey, I thought we got rid of the Off Topic Section??