This is the story of the last of the Babylon 5 mod-efforts. It's goal, to prevent another failure, by creating a place to solve our problems collaboratively. Its a port of call, home away from home, for modelers, texturers, programmers and sound engineers.
Babylon 5 - Sins of the Younger Races
Disclaimer:The authors are not responsible for any damage that may arise from using this mod. This mod may not be sold under any circumstances. It may be downloaded, as long as it does not violate the laws of the state/country you live in. This disclaimer must always be distributed with the mod. For other used please contact me personally.
Thanks to the TEAM:2D Artist: Tobias Liebhart (TobiWahn_Kenobi), SteinerXBughunters: Rob Cummings, cybertx, Darvroth, Peter1x9, ZombiesRus5Coders: Ronie Albesa (zRazor), Rob Cummings (NewHorizons), Davroth, EvilTesla-RG, Rodney Jenkings (HotRod), Tobias Liebhart, ZvezdochetsModel Templates: Amras-Arfeiniel, James Newman (Firehawk)Modelers: Ronie Albesa, Amras-Arfeiniel, Fileosoft, Johan Klaver, Koobalt, Tobias Liebhart, Stefan May, Timmaigh, Pauli Valkeejärvi (Hawkwall), ZvezdochetsMusician: Pauli ValkeejärviResearch: Rob Cummings, Darvroth, Rodney JenkinsPR: Darvroth, SteinerXSounds: Rob Cummings, Pauli Valkeejärvi, ZvezdochetsTexturers: Tobias Liebhart, SteinerX, TFL_BigBangTheory, Timmaigh, Pauli Valkeejärvi, ZombiesRus5Moderation: Blake00
Additional support: boshimi336, Lavo_2, myfist0, Gürol Salk (Geopard)And toMysticAngel for the Automated Fighter docking abilityThe Babylon 5 X3TC team
And thanks to all those modelers whose work is a inspiration and a template for creating ingame assetsIf I forgot anyone, please contact me so I can give proper credit. (There seem to be so many decent people involved at the moment)
Release 0.54.1 Full Download for Rebellion 1.95+& Patch 0.54.2
NEW - Balvarin Carrier and Minor Factions fix!
Installation Guide:
Sometimes the in-game mod loader can be a bit funky so if you can't see the mods you've installed or something isn't working then enabling the mods via the 'EnabledMods.txt' file in your 'Mods-Rebellion v1.85' folder where you installed the mods to is the other alternative. It should look like this to work:
TXT2SinsArchiveVersion 194Version 0enabledModNameCount 2enabledModName "SotyrRemastered"enabledModName "SinsRemastered-v0.95b"
DISCORD:
https://discord.gg/9AwgByEEKn
Old Blog with screenshots and infos maintained by SteinerX can be found here (*OUT OF DATE*)http://babylon5ins.blogspot.com/
Yours TobiWahn_Kenobi
@koobalt
As good as it would be to have more than one Model using the same texture, I'm not sure that I would like to live with the quality tradeoff. The model would be wonderful ( please do it ) but it might be that each model gets its own texture, as it is hard to reuse a texture and have AO as well ( as the seems between polygons would be in different places )
Just back home today... my holiday was more long that planned...
Model who are numerous like fighters are mainly using memory for textures... these are small but the texture are processed differently for each fighter on screen... these is mainly resolved by saving the .dds with mipmap...
It is more a problem of FPS... in sins, mesh itself have not a lod level system ( different mesh for different distance )... so, for each fighter on screen, the engine use the full poly model... same if the final result is only a few pixel on the screen...
Let say that you have a fighter with 3k tri and that you have 50 fighters on screen... you have 150k poly to process ( allong with texture processing for each face due to different light/shadow effect )... if the fighter is 1k tri, you spare 100k poly on screen, enough for render 10 capital ship at 10k...
Point is that the game is a real time game... mean that we need to have between 15-20 FPS... too much high poly model, specially for these who are numerous in huge battle, can make drop to much the FPS number...
Now, in the case of the B5 mod, poly count is very optimised... when i have begin help these mod, i was able to spare between 30 and 50 percent poly on the mesh of the other modeler without changing the shape... it is not more true today, the other modeler have learn how to spare poly... for the memory problem, it is mainly due to all texture loaded at the start... we have not reduce the size of texture but the UV mapping is optimised at a very high level... result is that pieces on the UV map are between 4 and 8 time more surface for the painting job... it allow talented texturer like SteinerX to add a bunch of details on the model without using polygone... more, people like Tobi use several hours for render a single ambient oclusion map who is merged with the usual texture from one model... a work around who take a lot of time from Tobi but who give high quality model in game... and it don't use more resource or memory during the play...
Optimisation was in mind from the beginning of these mod because it was needed... the B5 serie have a lot of races and a lot of ship model... this is what will eat resource and memory on the gamers computer when the mod will be done...
AO is based on light and it is apply only on the cl map... nm map and da map are not changed with the AO effect...
By example, if Koobalt send you 3 models ( A, B and C ) using the common texture maps x-cl, x-nm and x-da... in place of create 3 full set of textures ( around 45 mb in case of the model being a capital ship ), simply duplicate the texture x-cl to xa-cl, xb-cl, xc-cl... calculate your AO for the model A and merge it with the xa-cl... calculate your AO for the model B and merge it with the xb-cl... same procedure for the model C...
Final result will be 3 models with individual cl ( xa-cl, xb-cl, xc-cl ) but common x-nm and x-da... with these method, there is no "quality tradeoff" and you use 25 mb ram in place of 45 mb ram with the texture for the 3 models... it is 45% memory spared...
Method is not very different that these used with my numerous Starfury ( http://babylon5ins.blogspot.com/2009/09/fileosofts-b5-starfuries.html ) ... in the Starfury case, different mesh ( due to reference of the texture embedded in the .mesh format ), different cl but identical nm and da map !!!
Ahh! Thanks Thoumsin!! I haven't thought about that. Wonderful, we can spare 2 textures per ship ( and we can spare 1 texture per ship for the other vorlon ships, since I need the luminosity channel for your vorlon cruisers as well )
I am unsure about the Vorlon ship... if i good remember, i have only made the cl ( that you have change a little after )... mainly, light effect was made with particule effect using one of the sun texture ( original from Stardock/Ironclad )... in fact, i don't know how you was able to calculate some AO map effect on the Vorlon ship since the ship emit a bunch of light via FX effect and not texture... more, since the texture is moving, light emit by one pixel is variable, difficult to calculate some good AO map in case of changing light... unless you use some IBL ( image based lighning ) along the sun texture, and in so case, you can take a few days holiday between the render of each AO map...
Anyway, for my models, make like you wish... you know that my texturing skill are very bad... you have make a few change for the Vorlon Cruiser and from the post i have read here, the fan like these model... so, feel free to make what you will with the 3 other Vorlon capital ship that you have already... last one ( planet killer ) coming soon...
About the potential Vorlon fighter, it is done ( modeling part )... it is somehow based on the Vorlon capitalship... a spider like body, 4 double arms on the front, and a few little "petals"... all this with only 512 triangles... add 64 triangle if you wish a particule effect on the 8 "petals" like on the other Vorlon ship... will post a screenshot later ( tomorrow ) when i found back the password for upload on my server !!!
By the way, have you a list of all models who are done or started by somebody ? I have a few other models that i have started a few months ago and i am unsure that you need them... by example : the Skylar-T transport, some tanker/container transport where a poly reduction is needed, a very low poly thunderbolt, a low poly B5 station ( have read that station for all races was already done !!! ), etc ...
I'd love to have the models mentioned. A detailed list is difficult, as many models done by Zvezdochets were lost and I don't know which ones are floating around still. Narn stuff is mostly done by koobalt, so there is little need, Minbari is missing alot, and they would fit your organic modelling skills perfectly! As would the Babylon Station
As for the Vorlon Illumination and AO map, calculated them with the pedals present using them as Radiosity lightsource. No HDR, but it still looks good I suppose.
Looking forward to the fighter model, but I'm concerned that using pedals on it would kill the particle limit. We could make the pedals non-moving, that should do the trick. And nobody would notice.
Will be difficult since we use standart FX shader code already includer in the game... moving texture go along with light given texture...
For the fighter, it will be only 64 triangle for the petals... with 100 fighter on screen, it is 6.4k, similar to a heavy cruiser... more, the model is now with 8 petals but i think that i will reduce it to only 4... maybe some poly can be spared... if i made the section of the petals with light being only a surface a little offset of the main surface, it will use only 16 triangle in place of 64...
You don't need to worry about resource, it is part of my job... once i have something ready, your job will be to check the shape and give me instruction for modify the model in a way that it look like YOU wish...
Well, it is not the Triangles that make me worry but the particle limit ( set to 2000 IIRC on most computers by default, something I do not necessarily wish to change )
And I could make it so the texture is stationary but still glowing using the -da texture, which on a model of that scale nobody would notice I suppose.
My max particle count is already with 10000 more that the default... same without any mod, there was already shooting particule effect who dissappear in game during huge battlle...
Using the da is possible but so much people dissable the needed bloom because it make a lot of original sins models look like a chritsmas tree... for a lot of people, fighters are only a little dots on screen, they are a detail... anyway you are the mod leader, so it will be your choice...
Hey Tobi-wan -- thanks for the reply on my idea about the Shadow-Centauri link. Being a game player and not a modder, I can only guess about the limitations of working with a preexisting game engine. Well, how about this, then? How about making an adjustment in the tech tree of the Centauri in the Diplomacy section? Something like "Contact Morden", when after buying this ability, the Shadows have a greater chance of responding to mission requests? To counterbalance the power this might bring to the Centauri, maybe the "pay off" would be that the Centauri will experience greater Shadow citizen presence and more cultural influence on all their colonies from the Shadows, so that way it can only be used sparingly?
Something like this might add to the B5 experience of this Mod, if it is possible to make it work in the architecture of the program.
@ Gregory HardleyTo be honest I don't think that is possible. Also, having the Shadows as a playable race means you have to do the diplomacy yourself, and it might be that the shadows do not favor the centauri for once
I will try to make the Shadows playing the way that feels shadowish, but I hope the AI doesn't go bonkers completely because of the changes along the way.
@ ThoumsinI never thought of Bloom being bad, so I've always enabled it. I will try to make it using Bloom and Illumination, so you can add the petals to the main mesh.
Hey, not a problem. Just thought I'd explore the possibilities. Looking forward to the next version of the mod. From the screenshots it looks like it is going to be well worth the wait!
Hi All,
Just want to say I think this MOD is looking fantastic! and I cant wait to see the next release
is there a site with screenshots? i'd love to see some of the models etc
also would it be possible to get an update on where the MOD is in relation to release ?
I'm a massive B5 fan and playing a SOSE MOD would be fantastic
Again great work
@ent27For now, the next major release is in it's beginnings, as many of the team have little time right now. Screenshots are on the origo site and many more on steinerX's blog ( look at the header of the forum thread )
I'm at the moment building myself a sorta database tool for modding, so progress will come in slowly until this is ready.
First,...I want to thank for this mod (b5 and SOASE fan) ...I try minbar yesterday .... great job ... but now i try shadows (after centauri my favourite race of b5 universe ...)Just one little question .... HOW can I colonize planet when I play as a shadow race????I build 1st crab ... very nice textures and mesh ... thumbs up !!! .... but I dont see any colonization ships ... Frigate Factory can build only Shadow Scout, Shadow stalker and Voruntak envoy - ... none has colonization abilities .... my crab also heeeeeeeeeeelp ((
@johnmilton
that is not implemented yet, will be in the next release ( i hope ) as I do want to make the shadow and minbari gameplay vastly different. Hope it pans out.
.. okso i can play another race .. pitywithout colonization its unplayable race never mind ... I try EA now (or centauri? ). And I think i dont know its bug or what ... when i play as a minbar my sharlins dont have repair abilitiy ... minbars dont have passive repairing ability in research and repairing facility i build dont repair hull of this ships ... I dont try repaire fregates or cruisers so i dont know its working on them - but my precious Sharlins was unrepairable.
@johnmiltonWill look into it. Repair station should repair the sharlin, passive regeneration of hull is only available for shadows and vorlons
Would like to say i've messed about with this mod and love how it is starting to look very nice! good job to the mod team, hope you all know how much the community appreciates your hard work
Hi -- I'm having a problem using the jump engines with the EA. I can get the jump engines to start, but oftentimes the jump is stalled by waiting for fighters to dock. In other cases, the ships phase jump, but it is really slow. In other cases, the ships want to jump to a spot on the other side of the map before jumping to the target planet.
When you get a chance, could you let me know the right procedure for using the jump engines? It might be that something that I am doing wrong. What I do is left click to start the jump engines by clicking on the jump icon in the task bar and selecting a target planet, wait for the vortexes to open, and then select all the ships and left click to the target planet again.
@Gregory HadleyThat should be it! Couldn't do it any differently myself. If the fighter docking takes to long, just dock them beforehand. Vortex stays open 90 seconds or so, so when time runs out every ship still phase travelling is returned to normal travelspeed. The thing with trying to reach the other side of the map first is irritating though...
@ajfosterThanks!!
Hi TobiWahn -- Thanks for that. Now I know! Time to break out that old Van Halen CD and give it a go...
Hey all, just downloaded B5 for diplomacy and been trying it out. It looks good, looking forward to seeing more! Ihad a question though, do you guys plan on adding the Whitestar? It was sucha cool ship and hoping to see it in the mod if that was planned!
For now, no, the white star will not be in the initial release. That said, though, after all the request I'm sure it will be added later on.
White star ..... implementation of this ship requires adding new "race" - Interstellar Alliance (IA). Originally was build by the Minbar using their knowlege of Vorlon technology for war against the Shadows to the Rangers and later for new IA. This is why I also dont understand implementation of Victory Destroyer to EA now - this class was never part of EA weaponry - it was IA ship.Personally I only await for full implementation of Shadow and Vorlons to this great mod (I know that mod team is try to make playing with this race differently from other races), repair bug with "repair facility" for minbar and finish weaponry for Centauri (I dont play as a Narn - so I dont know how progress was done there).But i know that everything needs time - even mod team has their own personal life.
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