This is the story of the last of the Babylon 5 mod-efforts. It's goal, to prevent another failure, by creating a place to solve our problems collaboratively. Its a port of call, home away from home, for modelers, texturers, programmers and sound engineers.
Babylon 5 - Sins of the Younger Races
Disclaimer:The authors are not responsible for any damage that may arise from using this mod. This mod may not be sold under any circumstances. It may be downloaded, as long as it does not violate the laws of the state/country you live in. This disclaimer must always be distributed with the mod. For other used please contact me personally.
Thanks to the TEAM:2D Artist: Tobias Liebhart (TobiWahn_Kenobi), SteinerXBughunters: Rob Cummings, cybertx, Darvroth, Peter1x9, ZombiesRus5Coders: Ronie Albesa (zRazor), Rob Cummings (NewHorizons), Davroth, EvilTesla-RG, Rodney Jenkings (HotRod), Tobias Liebhart, ZvezdochetsModel Templates: Amras-Arfeiniel, James Newman (Firehawk)Modelers: Ronie Albesa, Amras-Arfeiniel, Fileosoft, Johan Klaver, Koobalt, Tobias Liebhart, Stefan May, Timmaigh, Pauli Valkeejärvi (Hawkwall), ZvezdochetsMusician: Pauli ValkeejärviResearch: Rob Cummings, Darvroth, Rodney JenkinsPR: Darvroth, SteinerXSounds: Rob Cummings, Pauli Valkeejärvi, ZvezdochetsTexturers: Tobias Liebhart, SteinerX, TFL_BigBangTheory, Timmaigh, Pauli Valkeejärvi, ZombiesRus5Moderation: Blake00
Additional support: boshimi336, Lavo_2, myfist0, Gürol Salk (Geopard)And toMysticAngel for the Automated Fighter docking abilityThe Babylon 5 X3TC team
And thanks to all those modelers whose work is a inspiration and a template for creating ingame assetsIf I forgot anyone, please contact me so I can give proper credit. (There seem to be so many decent people involved at the moment)
Release 0.54.1 Full Download for Rebellion 1.95+& Patch 0.54.2
NEW - Balvarin Carrier and Minor Factions fix!
Installation Guide:
Sometimes the in-game mod loader can be a bit funky so if you can't see the mods you've installed or something isn't working then enabling the mods via the 'EnabledMods.txt' file in your 'Mods-Rebellion v1.85' folder where you installed the mods to is the other alternative. It should look like this to work:
TXT2SinsArchiveVersion 194Version 0enabledModNameCount 2enabledModName "SotyrRemastered"enabledModName "SinsRemastered-v0.95b"
DISCORD:
https://discord.gg/9AwgByEEKn
Old Blog with screenshots and infos maintained by SteinerX can be found here (*OUT OF DATE*)http://babylon5ins.blogspot.com/
Yours TobiWahn_Kenobi
If you are limited on hard points you can always 'visually' compensate for a lower amount of available weapons using weapons effects etc.
Will be like for other models... not a problem but taking a lot of time... Since you have a powerful computer, if you have a powerful GPU, there is maybe a way to speed-up and improve your AO backing... there is a little free software called xnormal ( http://www.xnormal.net/1.aspx )... in place of using CPU, it use GPU... look the AO backing time at http://www.xnormal.net/Images/OptixBench_AO.png ... Optix is nothing more that nvidia optix/cuda system... look at the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-hoCUjn1wA too... specially at the end about mixing AO map with convexity map for improve final result... don't thing that there is a plug-in for Cinema4D but you can use the application like a stand-alone ( mean more load/save )...
As melody, it is a good tool but not anymore developed... not enough power for big work... but like you see, with thing like xnormal, we have already newer, more complex and more powerful tool...
Well, i have discover the difficulty with rotating part in my last model... was more lazy that you... tangent on 0,0,0 , U1 on 0 and V1 on 1 ( right handiness )... GPU making all the work on the fly...
Anyway, it is very possible that everything will change soon with Rebellion... they move from shader 2.0 to shader 3.0 ... Sins devs have already post that ship will cast shadow on nearby ship, so it mean that maybe we will have a more real and complex light/shadow system...
Well, in my last model, there was between 230 and 240 hardpoint... since the .mesh was filled with error related to hardpoint, i have take my wings3d data ( picture below, the reference point is the coordinate of the selected hardpoint )...
copy these data, calculate the orientation matrix and edit the .mesh with notepad for each hardpoint... this was really a mammoth work... and it is only the prelude to a bigger project who will be maybe finish in a few year... a wings3d pluggin who allow import/export to the sins .mesh format ( bye-bye XSI who hate me)....
Anyway, if you have problem with hardpoint, i can edit the .mesh with notepad and add them without problem... by example, if Rebellion allow more abilities to capitalship and that you wish add a hardpoint for these new ability, i need the original .obj, the .mesh in text mode and a screenshot who show where you wish the new ability hardpoint and i will be able to edit the .mesh...
As for weapons hardpoint, it is a max of 3 weapons type... for each weapons type, 4 bank ( left-right-front-back ) with max 20 weapons hardpoint by bank... 3x4x20 = 240 ... in case of my last model, weapon0 and weapons1 are identical ( 2 barrel turret ), weapons2 are the missile/torpedo tube...
As for the B5 station, final version will be around 80k tri, without weapons... as today, the sketch have already increase from 3k to 12k... use the same method that for the sharlin... work in stage ( sketch and stage 1 : http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EpX6GUNLABE/SrbZuvscp0I/AAAAAAAAAME/pnOM-Of7G8g/s1600/sharlin.jpg )... since the B5 station will have 3 stage like the sharlin, i can approximate the final poly count of the B5...
The problem will not be the amount of weapons point but the amount of weapons type... Sins is limited to 3 weapons type and the defense grid from the babylon 5 station have 4 weapons type :
- twin particle array : http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090704012817/babylon5/images/7/77/DefenseGrid1.png
- plasma canon : http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090704013445/babylon5/images/d/dd/DefenseGrid2.png
- pulse canon : http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090704013539/babylon5/images/e/eb/DefenseGrid3.png
- interceptor : http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090704014537/babylon5/images/e/e3/DefenseGrid4.png
A hard choice is needed... one of them need to be removed from the usual weapons, maybe move to a ability... maybe the biggest one, the plasma canon become a ability using some AM... or a light one like the pulse canon becoming a "flak" ability... using a ability will be the only way to somehow keep the 4 weapons type of the real B5 station... well, it is a choice for the mod leader, for Tobi...
As for the fan, i will need their help too... i have no idea of how much of each weapons type there is on the station and where they are located...
@Tobi... for modeling the B5 station, i will not use for reference the ugly Mongoose model that you like ( http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l104/urobach81/Babylon%205%20Minis/Earth%20Alliance/Babylon5.jpg ) but the one sell by SPACEart from Germany ( http://spaceart.de/videos/Babylon-5-Raumstation.mp4 )
I suggest doing away with the interceptor (Defense Grid 4). It serves no purpose in Sins because you cannot block incoming fire with another weapon. You can have abilities that do the same thing. A shield regeneration ability can also do the same thing. The only way to do what the interceptor does is to make an ability that creates fighter/missiles that use an ability(sent by creator, fighters can not have direct abilities) to bomb targets, then they get shot down by the target. That's entirely too much work and too much valuable CPU.
Thanks Thoumsin, looking great. If either of you need help with baking meshes, I bake cookies and Pork BBQ , nothing else - so far. I could be encouraged to get a few more programs and try my luck at meshes, but I have an outdated comp (Top of the line, 8 years ago).
Thanks - HotRod
You can keep the Defense Grid by re purposing the shield mechanics of Sins. Make the shield invisible and when it is impacted you instead have 'explosions'. Beam weapons should be configured to bypass this shield.
Shield is invisible at the start... become more and more visible when hit and depleted... anyway, the shield mechanic is regulated by shader code ( fx files)... same for the shield impact... you can maybe modify the shader code but it will apply on ALL races and models... not really the right solution...
The interceptor is the only system of the missile type on the B5 station... best to keep it like a usual weapons against small target like frigate...
I think that the light pulse canon becoming a flak ability is the best choice ( it is only my personal choice )...
Well, i have a outdated comp too but it remain a top of the line when compared to the recent desktop with i7 extreme edition...
Anyway, software like wings3d is tiny ( 7 mb ) and ask almost no resource... gimp is a little more heavy but run on computer from the previous century... if you can run sins, you can run all the tools that i use... and most of them are open-source, who mean that you spend money for them only if you wish ( donation system ).
Well, therein lies the problem, I have an ATI/AMD card.
Yes, read that too, wonderful! Heres hoping they allow custom shaders as well. If they revise the engine to the point as to support SSAO we will have to adapt the textures to only bake the normalmap AO into it.
40k/40k for particle and mesh each? Sounds acceptable for such an important model.
Yes, the Mongoose model is awful!
Agreed! But perhaps Rebellion will allow more than 3 weapons per ship/module/starbase
Has this information helped at all?
No problem if you have a ATI HD 2xxx or superior... optix use opencl who is a generic GPCPU system who work with AMD/ATI/NVidia... First opencl version was for MAC only but as 2009, it have become a accepted standart for graphic card...
Well, you will not have 125 starbase in a single gravity wheel like in the video from one of my previous post...
Have alreadt split the rotating and fixed part... was becoming heavy for wings3d... as today, the rotating section is already 17k tri when triangulated...
Model will have enough poly details for make suffer your computer when backing AO... modeling of the rotating section will be done for next week... since rotating section will have his own texture map, maybe i will segment it/UV optimize it and texture it before finishing the fixed part...
Hope that now, it is enough "round" for your taste...
Well, like i wrote before, i am able to add directly hardpoint in the .mesh by using notepad... So, if Rebellion or Sins II allow new features, it is not a problem for make modification...
Little, I knew of that limitation through trial and error, no more than 2 prerequisites! Thanks nevertheless, any effort of helping us is worth a lot to me.
I've added new hud icons for the centauri ships we have models for to the mod.
Hehe, I hoped so but you were saying cuda so I thought damn NVidians. Good to know optix cares for standards!
Gorgeous!!
Good to know. Is there any way to get to an XSI from the mesh again?
Yes, you simply need to create your own import/export plug-in for XSI
Well, there is always a way for everything but sometime, you need to build your own tools... my own goal is to get rid of XSI and convertxsi because XSI hate me ( mean that i need somebody else for make the XSI step ).
Hacking the convertxsi.exe for create a software who make the reverse task is one way but i choice to try understand the undocumented .mesh format used by sins...
As for your "fear" of manually add a lot of hardpoint, take a look at http://soase.weebly.com/xsi-add-ons.html ... there is a XSI script for them who can help you a lot ( script check for the sins hardcoded hardpoint limit too )...
Thanks for the link, I will look into that next time I need to add hardpoints!
As for XSI, i've come to like it for the few things I'm using it for (tangents, hand UV corrections, hardpoints, texture setup). I do like C4D more, but i don't have the time making my own import/export tools for it.
Yeah there is only so far that scripts can take yo in any platform, no game engine is designed for one 3d modelling software, ya have to do some work youself, fortify yourself with wine and vodka and assail that slope mates, good luck!
Rotating section of the B5 station done... 37k poly when triangulate... a few screenshot below... green part is the 1k poly sketch version of the fixed part...
The model have more detail that the german model but less detail that the real B5 station... it is will a generic B5 station... i have begin to see again the serie and from one season to the other, the B5 station is not identical... some new details appear, some other dissappear... from season 1 to season 5, the station keep the same lenght but become somehow a little more "fat"...
There will be some problem with the fighter/bomber launch bay... they are located on the 4 cobra shaped arm, 5 by arms ( http://www.starbase79.com/images/Babylon/sheet5.JPG )... a total of 20 but sins is limited to 10... a other problem is that fighter are launched from the cobra bay but are docking at the front opening of the station ( not possible in sins )... more, particle hardpoint is possible on moving part but i am not sure that it is possible for hangar...
Very possible that the rotating section will have some minor change with time... it take a lot of time to see again all the episodes for add/remove/correct details on the model...
Dude thats an amazing model! I don't think that it is a very big problem where the fighters launch. Its still a minor detail in the big picture. And the picture is sweet! Damn thats a real space station!
can someone say shiny?
Shiny!!! There! I said it!
When the fighters get close they 'dock' so I don't think it's a big issue.
I don't suppose and 'auto-docking' feature for strike-craft could be included in this mod? I know one was written for a few other mods previously. It worked nicely and did seem to cut down on a big of lag.
Well, if Tobi have not change, details is something important for him...
As the schematic link to the cobra bay in my previous post, there is some error... in the serie, you can perfectly see 7 bay by cobra arms and not 5 like in the schematic...
Will probably model them since i have not yet reach the 40k cap for the rotating section...
Well, Tobi is the guy who decide but it will be great... not because it spare some lag but because it is own it work in the B5 universe... Starfury are launched just before a fight/patrol with full weapons pay-load and fuel... and not running around waiting that something happen
Work on the station looks beautiful guys.
Am I right in thinking the in-game graphics are at least on a par with the CGI from the series itself?
Thoumsin,
If I recall, the additional bays were part of the weapons upgrade refit and also included a maintenance port.
Darvroth
Yes and no... last release from B5 was in 2007 ( the lost tales : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1emoP8Xh1k )... a lot of model was remake by the modeler "Kalel71JP" who have work for ZOIC ... a lot of effect was made by "Atmosphere VFX", guys who have work for the new "Battlestar Galactica" serie...
Recent model are made of several million poly... and have a better quality that what sins can made... older version use less poly, by example the B5 station was 200k poly with 3 detail layer mesh ( more poly ) who was enable in case of zoom... these method is only possible in game who use LOD method for mesh ( sins use only LOD method for texture )...
Few people know the 2007 "Babylon 5 TLT"... HD version was only released for the "Xbox live video marketplace"... if you are curious, simply go to youtube and search for "Babylon 5 TLT"... you will find the video in 8 part...
Well, i have a screenshot from when the station was build and there is already 7 bays... as the upgrade, it simply add two section to the dorsal fixed part... one forward and one back... these two weapons pod are the B5 upgrade...
It is, but on such a great model nobody (except us) would notice this minor glitch!
Yes, please. If it is possible.
If somebody can tell me how to do it I'm all for it. Never liked that the fighters are at all times waiting in space for something to happen.
While it was nice to be able to watch a B5 movie again, I was very disappointed with TLT. It was empty, soulless and overly dramatic concerning religion (and defying the stance of the leading 5 seasons on religion). And I never liked Lochley! Such a bad actress and no replacement for Claudia Christiansen.
Concerning your model, it is marvelous!
Tobi, here is the link from the TSOP mod. http://soase.weebly.com/tsop-downloads.html#Addons Scroll down about half way and there is the Squadron Automation link.
Due to Advent Homing mines they have an ability on Carriers to manually control fighters. (Maybe this could be an upgrade in the tech tree to unlock an ability, 'Extended Patrols' which allow the player to place their fighters in an ambush formation if they wanted ... kind of like 'Extra Fuel Tanks' or 'Patrol Endurance' or something).
Ultimately it would be nice if you could right click on the 'Dock All / Undock All' button to have it be automated, not sure how to do this though.
See if this works for you!!!
Very interesting link... need to correct something... it don't really reduce RAM usage singe model/texture are already loaded in RAM... but it can help greatly for a other sins problem who is the heavy use of processor resource...
Let me explain... when i have push the iron engine with numerous starbase in a single gravity wheel, i was able to have the engine render more that 25 million poly but a other problem have appear... movement from the numerous starbase become "jerky" and everything become slower... i bet that it is due to the collision detection thing who ask a lot of resource...
Point is that poly count is only related to what you see on screen... but the trajectory calculation are made for all object in the game, same for these not on screen... it is why having fighter docked when not needed can greatly reduce the late game lag... the trade/refinery ship reduction from the TSOP can be interesting too...
As for the memory use reduction, don't need to worry... it is where the multiple texture/UV are helping...
Will do... only need to extrude some edges, loop cut and clean... will be done for my next week-end WIP update... the top extreme limit is around the 50k poly by .obj due to limitation of the convertXSI.exe ...
Done...
Main body is almost done, will be around 20k tri without the solar/communication panel and the weapons...
On the next picture, the section in the red circle are the weapons upgrade pod installed in 2259 ( i think )...
Need to know if you plan to implement in the starbase research tree the upgrade... if yes, i will need to make 2 models, one before and one after upgrade...
Other location for the weapons are on the center section of the solar/communication panel...
With the upgrade version, each pod have a energy mines launcher ( not yet found a picture of it )... they are mobile mines launched in the path of attacking fleet and who explode with proximity making some area damage... not sure if it can be implemented like a station ability !!!
Have found in my archive all the needed data about weapons ( before and after refit ) and their location... will make a 3D sketch of them once the model is almost done...
Due to the huge amount of light projector on the station and my limited texturing skill, i will maybe use a third mesh with a very small map ( 256x256 ) for create real light via shader, so i don't need to texture area where light is projected... something almost impossible when light is located on the fixed part and the lighted area is on the mobile part... will make some test the weekend.
Thanks, I've added it now. Though I have as of yet not added the ability. In this mod, many a ship has fighters and it is not useful to add the ability to all of them. Perhaps for the carriers and/or CapitalCarriers.
Sorry, not possible.
Especially since this mod has LOTS of fighter.
True, but the collision detection is not used with fighters. Still, the pathfinding algorithm is and we that seems to soak up a lot of cpu power as well.
Beautiful!! Many thanks
This would be the way I've always imagined it. A dream come true
It sure can (perhaps not by myself but I know it is possible) and would be awesome to have.
I'm not sure I do understand completely. What do you mean by "i will maybe use a third mesh with a very small map ( 256x256 ) for create real light via shader" ? How would this work? Most of the lights on Babylon 5 are on the rotating part shining onto the rotating part (which is no problem for me since I can bake them into the texture using 3d lights). I'm not entirely sure there is a lightsource in the show which shines from the fixed onto the rotating section - how would you mean to solve that? (asking out of curiosity and earnest interest).
If you intend to render the lights into the texture yourself could you give me the lightmap as a seperate texture and the basetexture without the lights so I can combine them properly after adding AO (or alternatively you can add AO yourself, after all this is you model, and a splendid one it is!!)
I'm so anxious to see this model ingame, it's iconic and you are doing it the greatest justice
Many, many thanks
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