I've beeing pouring through all of the files in my SoaSE directory and through the modifier sticky at the top of this forum, but I'm at a bit of a loss. Here's what I'm trying to do:
The ideas is basically to create an ability that separates a capital ship into separate parts that then function as a squadron of less powerful frigates or cruisers. Obviously the model itself can't be broken into different pieces, but I have a few thoughts on how to accomplish a similar effect.
1) Give Capital Ship A an ability that is similar to the "Deploy Starbase" ability. Basically, a new group of ships is spawned and Capital Ship A disappears. The squadron of new ships has a similar ability that respawns Capital Ship A and causes the squadron to disappear. In theory, the problem I see here is that the capital ship that is respawned from the squadron won't have the experience and levels of the original.
2) Similarly, create an ability that replaces the original ship mesh with a group of new meshes. Could this work similarly to how starbases add new meshes as upgrades are purchased?
3) My last thought is related to the actually fighter/bomber squadron mechanic. Deploy a squadron, while at the same time the holding capital ship disappears (or goes invisible and disabled). Once the squadron redocks, the capital ship reappears.
Any help would be really appreciated!
1.
Possible, but complicated. Thier is no known way to just "make the ship disapear" but you can kill it, which will cause an explosion. But you can just say that the explosion is explosive bolts or the like.
It is possible for the resultent cap to have a level similar to the original cap by manipulating the ressurection ability.
This is VERY complicated, and I would be willing to help.
At risking sounding like a complete Ass, I am probably the only person in sins who could make such an ability to combine exactly four (or more/less) ships back into one.
2. I am a codder, so my knowaledge of modeling ext... is limited, but I do believe that you could make a ship that is dieffernt parts, not as one whole. However, this wouldn't solve your problem, becouse they would still act, and technicly be, one ship.
3. Would be awsome, and simple, but I know of know way (and it is generaly conisedered impossilbe in sins currently) to create an undetectable ship.
Thanks for your input, Evil! Your thoughts on my first idea are interesting. It's my preferred method simply because the end result will (I think) be much more elegant than what could be accomplished in any other way.
On destroying the ship, I only metioned the ship disappearing because I know the starbase construction frigates vanish without any kind of explosion. They do have an explosion when destroyed in battle, so could it be possible that the construction ability just "sacrifices" the frigate? Or maybe the ability leads to a different, undetectable explosion effect? I'll have a look at it and see what I can come up with.
So how might we go about doing the rest of this? I'm ready to get started whenever you are!
Hmm....Your right about the construction vessels, I havn't thought about that.
*looking at them now*
Okay, thier is no line to just make the frigates go away. It is built into the starbase constuction line.
So, what I sugest, is that we USE the starbase constuction line, we just leave the type of starbase to be constructed blank.
You'll have to test that idea, to make sure it doesn't crash the game.
I have also thought of a problem, when joining the frigates back together, we have to spawn a capitol ship. And as far as I know, the only known way to spawn a capitol ship, is to use something similar to the Vassari fleet beacon. Meaning that the capship jumps in. (VS just appearing).
I think someone MAY have gotten around this, I'll reaserch that.
Sure you don't want this to be a cruiser or a frigate? (would make this a WHOLE lot easier)
Also, for now, you can begin work on the ability that seperates the ship. SHould be fairly simple, just have the ability apply a buff to itself, that buff then removes the original ship, and spawns your new ships. (look at the Sova Missile pod thing for an idea if you don't know)
The more things change, the more they stay the same. I remember people going up against this issue back in the old days of Armada II modding when getting the Prometheus's MVAM to work properly - the end result was that it took an entire exe patch to enable the functionality.
You can probably make the default particle effect spawned when the ship explodes blank and then use a buff so that if the ship explodes due to weapons fire it spawns the appropriate explosion effect, but that's just a guess.
Okay, I've got to be honest. I've found that adding in new ships, messing with entity, mesh, and texture files is all fairly easy and straight-forward, but I'm not too sure about some of these ability/buff lines here. I suppose I just don't know what lines affect what part of the game. Anyway, I've put together the Ability and Buff for Separation HERE, but I do still have a few questions.
1) Is there a way to have the three frigates act as a squadron or perhaps as a locked fleet (coordinated attacks, navigation, etc.)? Each frigate must have a different model to represent a different portion of the ship, but I'm not sure how three separate models can translate into a group that acts as a squadron or fleet.
2) Here's another thought. Initially, I wanted to make this an untimed ability, which required that the frigates have an ability that would reform the capital ship when activated. Would it be easier to make it a timed ability that just reverses the process at its elapse?
3) In the buff, I used the Create Starbase line, but I also came across a Make Dead instant action. I'm not sure to what unit it belongs, but I assume this would cause the explosion you were referring to earlier, right?
Like I said, I'm not sure if what I'm doing is correct, but I figured you could point me in the right direction if something is wrong.
Funny you should mention the Prometheus... That's what I'm working on here to add to the Sacrifice of Angels mod. I'll keep you suggestion in mind, as it sounds like a good route to take if the Create Starbase action doesn't pan out.
the 'MakeDead' instant action will kill the object using the ability. This line is used on the Argonev's Last Resort ability, and NOT IN SB CREATION ABILITIES.
that is fine that you don't know alot about abilities, nor did I when I started
you'll learn fast.
About "MakeDead" it IS what I was refering too, in a way. However, I have NEVER had any succses using that line, as it tends to crash the game randomly whenever I use it.
So whenever I have to use "makedead" I just cheat, and apply a TON of damage.
As too your other two questions.
it is NOT possilbe as far as I know to get frigates to work as a squarden
and making it timed would Not make the ability easier, it would make it harder.
As to your ability, it looks great, exept for three small issues.
since the ability doesn't level, wouldn't it be more logical to use Level source type of "reserchwithoutbase"?
as in the case of AbilityAntimatterRechargeModule
However, if this is going on a capitol ship, I sugest that you make the ability level.
second issue is that you are missing a Tab on FrigateFedPromA
And, I think you will have to add an Expiry time, just the way the game works. (for an infinite Expiry time, just give it a negitive one)
lastly, your finish condition is when all On Delay instant actions are done
yet, you have no On Delay instant actions.
I sugest that you make all actions on a delay of zero.
Have you tried this yet?
Lastly- I have reaserched the Cap issue. Thier is no known way to spawn a capship, exept for "SpawnShipAtPlanet" which doesn't help.
In short, your Promethius will HAVE to be a frigate, or have a REALY wierd recombineing ability.
Oops! I changed a few things last minute that created a few of those inconsistencies. I've fixed them up just now.
As to the issue with spawning a capital ship, I'm not totally married to the idea. Could this work if the ship were a cruiser?
Edit: Okay, so I have the spawning part completely worked out. The Prometheus can spawn any number of whatever frigates I like that act independently just as any other frigate would. For the moment, I have them set to a timer as I don't know how to go about creating the "redocking" ability.
I tried the CreateStarbase line to get rid of the Prometheus as it spawns the frigates, and, while it didn't create any minidump issues, it didn't have any other kind of effect either. I'm wondering if the construction frigate's disappearance is linked to something else. Just for grins I also added in the Phase Out Hull buff to take the Prometheus out of the battle while its separate parts fight. If I could figure out some way to make the ship invisible, or even mostly translucent, this might be a possible solution.
So, I have a question or two about making this work in the cruiser format? I know how the Prometheus would respawn in cruiser form thanks to your help, but how could we get all three frigates to disappear under the effect of a single ability or buff?
Here are the new files, btw.
I just realized that I've been trying to test the Create Starbase buff in a mod that's meant for vanilla Sins until the Entrenchment version comes out in a week or two...
I'll see what I can make happen with a small Entrenchment mod and report back.
Ha! Success! Well with the ship being a frigate\cruiser at least. Though it's not perfect it's atleast a start
Essentially what i've got is an ability on ship A that spawns Ships B,C, and D and destroys ship A which is the simple part obviously
Then on ship B, there is an ability which will destroy ships B,C, and D and recreate Ship A, said ability will only work if Ships B, C and D are All within range otherwise it does nothing. The main flaws are that it is unable to distinguish between ships, by which i mean if you have multiples of Ship A you would be able to mix and match ships B,C and D to recreate the ships, (though you would always require one of each). due to some of the buffs i used being an area effect, if you have multiple ships it CAN start a chain reaction (cool to watch though), but aslong as the range is very short it shouldn't be an issue It requires a passive ability on ships B,C and D, in addition to the Active abilities on A and B, so limits the other abilities able to placed on the ships (particularly ship B )For the record I was not at all working on it because Tesla threw down the gauntlet
Hey Terraziel! Way to go! Would you mind uploading the files and I can have a look to see how the first part matches up to what I've done?
lol Terraziel @ last line
Mystic Angel- So does our idea of the create Starbase line work for our purposes or not?
If not, we'll have to use a special version of "MakeDead"
(though, not that line specificly, becoues it causes minidumps)
Yes, it can be a cruiser. For all Modding purposes, frigates and cruisers are the same thing.
I just looked at it, and again, I do not like your level source type. IF this is put on a capitol ship, someone could upgrade it to lvl 2, or 3, and not have to use any antimatter.
It SHOULD work if put on a cruiser/frigate. But it would be nicer if you would use "ReaserchWithoutBase"
As for the finish condition on the buff, that timer does absolutly nothing. I again sugest that you replace it with "AllOnDelayInstantActionsFinished" or however that line is.
As for Expiry time, I HEAVILY sugest that you put it on "-1" instead of 200.
All that means, is that after 200 seconds, all your nice new ships die. Which is problomatic if you want to join them back together.
Terriezial- Would you mind posting the re-combination buff?
I know how to improve it so that it can distinguish between ships.
(by the sounds of it, you may already know how, you just didn't do it)
I'd like to use it for this re-combining ability if you don't mind.
Link
For the record, Some of the files will reference icons\meshes etc that are part of another mod so won't work, but the important files (Abilities and Buffs) should be fine (strings aside)
No problem, I've done the same thing with my files. *hurries off to go compare*
EvilTesla-
I've had some stuff to take care of this morning, but I'm about to test out the starbase line now. I actually got the "MakeDead" buff to work just fine. Of course, the ship disappears in a huge, screen rattling explosion no matter how much I change the explosion/debris lines in the unit entity files.
I also figred out the frigate/cruiser thing. I just hadn't been paying much attention to the cruiser entity files when I'd been in them, so I didn't realize they functioned as frigates as well.
I forget now why I was still using the "Intrinsic" source; it was really late last night, so maybe I just wasn't getting something with the ResearchWithoutBase stuff. I'll change it around, but it did work fine on my cruiser last night.
Like I said, I was using a timer on the frigates just to have them disappear ( my version of an alpha). The finish condition was there because I copied it over from the "IllusionSelfCopy" buff. I originally had it as finishing after all On Delays, but didn't change it back after the copy/paste. My intention is for the frigates to hang around indefinitely (until they're recombined, that is) in the end, so no worries there.
I'm off to go test out our theories.
Alright, once this is working satisfactory, we can make the Re-combination ability.
EDIT: I messed up, we want "FixedLevel0" for source type.
(look at AbilityCruiserARecombination) (thanks Terrazie)
Terraziel-
your recombining buff is VERY interesing, however, I think we will start from scratch for this ability.
However, HOW did you find "RemoveBuffOfType"???
I've been using "ApplyOrRemoveBuffToSelf"
I wish that I knew about a specific remove buff line existed before?
How did you find it? is it new to Entrenchment?
(In short, I'd like to find if thier are other lines I don't know existing)
Okay, after some frustrations working with Terraziel's files (due to minidumps I couldn't track down) I took a short break and a few steps backward and got the spawning files working in entrenchment.
I also experimented some with the "CreateStarBase" line. To be honest, I'm not really sure what's going on, but I do have a few ideas. I've added the line in exactly as it's found in the starbase construction frigate file (both without and without a placement radius). Basically, the ships were spawned, and the original frigate just stayed there with no sign of a starbase. My initial thought is that I've put the action into a buff that's being applied to the unit itself (ApplyBuffToSelf), and the original creation ability does no such thing. It's simply a "CreateStarBase" buff with no mention of target, self, or anything else. So, maybe if I can create a second buff in the chain that accomplishes this without being applied to the original frigate...? I don't really know but wanted to see what you guys thought.
Incidently, the MakeDead buff does create an unavoidable (for the moment), screen-shaking explosion. So if it comes to it, then we could use that and somehow screw around with the explosions so that the ability creates a nonexistent explosion with no debris while being destroyed in battle creates the normal effects.
Latest files.
nevermind
Yes, it probably doesn't work becouse it doesn't have a target.
I just looked at the Deploy Starbase files, and I see no way to give our "CreateStarbase" line a target.
We'll probably just have to use MakeDead.
Though, when using MakeDead, keep an eye on it, becouse again, I have had it crash the game.
(maby they fixed it in Entrenchment?)
I guess then it is time to begin work on the recombination ability.
In this recombination ability, I will sugest a PRODIGIOUS use of my invention, the "And Gate Buff"
I have it diagramed here, with a "Boomerang Buff"
An "And Gate Buff" is simply a set of buffs that makes sure that a certain buff only works if it is on the right ship. And a "Boomerang Buff" is a set of buffs that are targeted from a certain ship, onto a target, then "boomerang" back to the original.
Here is an ability diagram of a Boomenang Buff with an And Gate Buff
I will make the Ability Diagram of the recombination buff tommarow. It will have at least three Boomerang Buffs, and six and gates.
So yea, this will be a complex ability.
You were just waiting to unveil this prodigious idea, weren't you?
Anyway, here's my thought for taking care of the explosions resulting from MakeDead, and I want to run the theory by you:
1) Modify an explosion file so that the ball of fire, screen rumble, and debris are all deleted. Then use that for the default explosion for all of the ships involved.
2) Create a passive ability that results in a normal explosion when the ship is destroyed by battle.
Edit: Another thought--is there a way to link the activation of two abilities together? Or to link the activation of an ability to the end of a buff?
I like your theory, but keep in mind that this would take up more ability slots.
Your going to have to define what you mean by linking abilities.
Here is the Recombination Ability
Complex, confusing, and hard to understand,
But it SHOULD be bullit proof
Note: You'll probably want to change the names of the Buffs and Abilities and such
I'm not planning on this ship having any other abilities, as the separation/recombination is a bag of tricks in itself. I've been playing around with it this morning, and what I've come up with seems a bit complicated. I'm hoping there's a more direct path that I'm just not seeing yet. I also created a new explosion file that gives the impression of the ship disappearing with no visual effects.
1) AbilityPromDestruction - A passive ability that leads to the buff chain below.
2) BuffPromDestruction1 - Triggers when the ship takes damage. I currently have it set to lead to another buff dealing with the OnOwnerDeath trigger type. Is there a way to specify the amount of hull damage needed before the buff triggers? It would make things simpler.
3) BuffPromDestruction2 - (if needed) triggers when the ship is destroyed while taking damage. It spawns a clone of the frigate with one difference: the explosion file is an actual explosion. The clone would have an existence of 0, causing it and the original ship to explode at the same time. While the original ship would have no visible explosion, the clone would.
So, the ultimate result is that the ships create no explosion when they separate or recombine, but when they are detsroyed in battle there is a definite explosion. (Props to Carbon016 for the original idea)
It's going to take me a bit to study this diagram of yours. I'm sure I'll have a few questions (like, what is a "sensor"?). Are you planning to put this all together, or would you rather I do it?
I'd rather you do it.
I have alot on my hands, and it is YOUR mod.
Don't worry about the names. They are just that, names.
Your idea would work, but here is somthing better.
Why don't you just have a buff that applies an explosion effect OnOwnerDeath??
That was my initial idea, and it sounds awfully easy. Unfortunately, it hasn't turned out to be so simple for me to accomplish at this point in time. At the moment, I can't get the buff to take effect, but I'm working on it.
what do you mean by you can't get the buff to take effect?
The buff wont apply?
The effect wont Apply?
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