As much fun as I have had dominating dg playing minion build erebus he needs to be leveled out a bit. I mean seriously I have not found one demigod that can stand up to the minion build. Most games the dg's just run to the other side now and im finding its not even a challenge anymore. So what do you all think. IMO I might lower the amount of nightwalkers you can have or their dmg / health. Obviously would have to test it to find what the happy medium is.
Now before you other erbus player scream at me understand I am only talking about the minion build where you spam night walkers. I think erebus himself does not need any nerfing. He seems pretty balanced, at least the way I play him, that is until I have 16 minons with a ton of hp at which point I fear no DG in the least.
Any other idea's on how to even out the minion build?
I'm not going to draw any conclusions on balance as I'm garbage at the game, but "minion erebus" is definitely the first thing that comes to mind when someone asks me who the hardest DG is to combat, and who I'll refer to when people are claiming whatever other DG's are OP.
The most luck I've had so far is with the Orb of Veiled Storms. I haven't gotten around to trying parasite egg yet, I keep forgetting.
Without Horn of Battle try beating minion Oak 1v1 let alone Erebus.
been doing it with erebus without horn of battle really isnt an issue imo or do you mean beating a minion build in which i agree. I've actually got to a point of being bored with the minion build because its so easy.
Eberus minion build is a strong build against any demigod, but not unbeatable. It might force you to choose a more aoe build or one of your teammates to do so. It just requires a different strategy. Having said that, i think a good reg player is incredibly difficult to face, even without HoB.
Indeed, there are DGs and strategies that are good. Torch Bearer with Ice, Reg with mines and/or Poisoned Dagger, another Erebus with Mass Charm maxed, ...
Minion Erebus is nice to play. It is the only DG i have really played so far. It´s nice to have minions that heal and do the damage. But if there is a decent player who can destroy or stun my minions I have to retreat quite often. Erebus alone is not that good in my opinion. I think he quite often needs a mate who is doing the damage after the opponent is bitten.
Minion Erebus is or was incredibly strong. Without horn of battle he got a bit less powerful, fortunately.
This proposal is more zynical than serious:
Make them cost just 50% of the mana cost of Shamblers (450mana) or Yetis (550mana). But I guess you won't see any more Nightwalkers then.
I still don't get it why the two generals who already can get much more minions than the other two get their minions practically for free.
vs any minion build, the general just runs around in circles whilst the minions eat your face. they actually do a tonne of dmg late game with +dmg items and points in morale. and you can't reach the enemy general. erebus is even worse because of bite. you can stack a tonne of armor and it simply won't make much of a difference at all. he can heal, do massive dps, and chase. i don't see a counter to that.I really think they need to implement gold/exp for minion deaths, there really needs to be some incentive in place for generals to not just constantly suicide their minions.
[quote who="[ShakeNBake]" reply="9" id="2335025"]vs any minion build, the general just runs around in circles whilst the minions eat your face. they actually do a tonne of dmg late game with +dmg items and points in morale. and you can't reach the enemy general. erebus is even worse because of bite. you can stack a tonne of armor and it simply won't make much of a difference at all. he can heal, do massive dps, and chase. i don't see a counter to that.I really think they need to implement gold/exp for minion deaths, there really needs to be some incentive in place for generals to not just constantly suicide their minions.[/quote]
signed! its to much of an advantage. just spam minions to the enemys and watch yourself win... sad strategy.
Thats kind of my point. For me its gotten almost boring to play the minon buil because i know I can chase any DG out of a lane pretty much whenever I want without putting myself at risk. I dont really have a problem with it being powerful at endgame because it should be after you stack armor with minion upgrades etc. IMO the horn of battle really isnt that big of a deal. It only prevents me from having a good 10 seconds of invicible minons that no one can kill.
I think the biggest problem is I have not seen a real counter. Reg with mines does some dmg and yeah if he double stacks them they can kill most of the night walkers, depending on lvl, if they are in a tight group. Thats not a real counter cause i just suicide a few walkers and his mines are a moot point, even if he gets them im far enogh away that I just walk back and recast my preist/archer/warriors and send them right back at him, while i farm some more walkers. What other dg comes close to that?
queen? Shes usually dead before she can get off enough aoe dmg to kill my walkers off even with the bramble.
regs wings build can hurt if hes really powered up but your still doing so uch dmg to him that even if he kills them off you will have rebuild your troops before he gets in range of you.
Rooks tower farms are a joke and his hammer slam can be easily dodged.
Maybe TB with a stun but still that just gives him time to run away cause hes not going to kill them before the stun wears off.
Does anyone think they can produce a viable counter with a different dg to the massive minions?
Maybe the new dg's will have one IDK, but as it stand right now I havent found one.
I just dont want the nerf stick to kill erbus completely because hes so much fun to play, which is why I made the htread, to figure out how to balance him out without making him stupidly squishy and useless.
if playing UB i try to get post mortem and ooze and maybe plague. that can help vs the minions, but minion erebus troubles me a lot.
Definately. And there is no range limit. From your base, summon an army of minions. Then send them to take down towers. Like Sedna. Send a small army to take down tower, ignore them. Then go and help your teamate DG on the other side of the map with healing. So its like 2 battles at once. No skill, no management, no risk.
-Limit range of control of minions, or extend idol timers, or give gold/XP. Creeps give gold and XP, minions who has 4-5x their health should do the same.
Eh. The management and risk is that you are leaving your Sedna less effective more vulnerable by having her minions elsewhere. As Sedna, I can't hold a lane without minions.
I often send my monks to follow my other teammates, but that means I can't push towers myself. There's definitely a tradeoff involved for the idol minions, but I haven't really tested it with Nightwalker spam to know.
A minionless Sedna can definately hold a lane solo. She's not a great fighter, but she has insane heal and good speed.
If that's the case, are you saying she's horribly overpowered with her minions in tow? What DG's can or can't hold their lane against a minionless Sedna?
Sedna has no aoe; I. And I, myself, was not able to heal faster than minion damage.
I doubt the build is unstoppable. There's a few good aoes that can take out the whole army in 1-2 shots. The problem is that kind of aoe isn't available for everyone.
I think there needs to be fewer of them. Less health is no good because then your build gets easily countered with 1 aoe spell. Less damage and they'll still be imba for tanking towers/forts. Having a decent mana cost would be bad for Erebus, because it would prevent him from having mana when he really needs it for one of his real skills. This all basically applies to Oak as well.
Edit: To give a number, I think it should max out around 5-8 of the little buggers.
I just came up against 2 minion erebuses (erebii?), and tried the parasite egg. It's definitely useless.
The first thing they do is batswarm away, and I'm sure mist form would be helpful as well. Even if I catch up to them, it's a game of cat and mouse where I get maybe 2-3 hits in as their minions beat me up.
I also seemed to have some issues with casting it, and I'm positive it was recharged and in range. Half of the time my character would walk up to erebus upon giving the command (even though it has a decent range), and I would freeze up entirely for a few seconds. Even if I had nightwalkers beating on me, my char wouldn't autoattack back. This got me killed at least 4 times.
My favourite is when a stacked/premade gets Oak, UB and LE. Game over man.
Anyways, I've fought off LE's before with my Reg, usually requires maxed mines with wings plus damage bonuses, but its annoying because I'm not actually hurting the DG himself and he can easily replace them and I get nothing for wasting my time/mana on minions.
The other thing is the idols, quite often I see them running across the map to a fort/tower and start raping it, alone, while the player commanding them is elsewhere killing npcs/dgs/helping teammates. There needs to be something done to make minions worth keeping alive, and not suiciding to enemies, plus nerfing them a little bit. If there was a cost for getting minions for LE and Oak, and they gave good xp/cash to enemy on kill, then I'd reckon they'd want to keep them alive, rather then suicide spamming DGs/Towers/Forts.
The only time you should be attacking the minions is to help your towers finish thm off because he got away...otherwise you are doing it wrong..
So from what I'm reading thus far theres basically a consensus that there is no real counter for the minion build. Counter meaning you can actually kill the dg or run him off not quell his army for 10 seconds while he recast and rebuilds his nightwalkers.
I really dont mind the build, but there needs to be some counter to it, thus far no one has even come close. If it takes 2 dg using aoe to do it that is not really a counter, it actually confirms the point that something needs to be tweaked as it shouldnt take 2 dg's to present a challenge to 1dg.
What I said usually happens when his standing near his tower while spamming minions. I usually help my sides NPCs push up to the enemy tower and thats it. I can't take on the LE myself with a tower there, plus LE's have easy escape and mines don't work on anyone who is smart enough.
I played Reg last night again quite a bit, got a few kills on LE with assistance from teammtes, as we just ignored the minions and went right for him as he wasn't near a tower or anything. I then played Oak and killed the LE some more only when assistance from teammates again and when he was out in the open and well with all our slows he couldn't get away fast enough.
Then I played LE, which I hadn't done for a while coz I think he is a bit lame, but the other side stacked generals and we already had a Reg. I just got Lv4 Bishops early, upped my minion hp/regen and my own regen as well as bite, with a point in bat swarm just to escape/chase down. I think I died once, and that was it, killed quite a lot. I didn't even spam that many minions early, but with Bishops alone, I was a major tank with easy escape, and even when I couldn't escape I had mist as a backup to atleast stall. There are just soo many things that LE can get which can make it easy to chase people down, escape and just outright swarm people.
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