RAKK Community Balance MOD v1.01
My first official release is out. I'll bet there's some issues in here still, but I think I got most of them.
Many thanks to Kitkun. Saved me a lot of hassle with balancing the caps.
To anyone reading this, you're here because the released version of Sins is NOT balanced. This mod is purely to address balance issues and at least bring the game closer to ideal balance. I'm not going to claim that I fixed all of the balance issues, but I believe that I got pretty close.
When I mentioned that I wanted to take a stab at balancing the game, I immediately had a plethora of messages in my private message folder. Some had suggestions. Others were asking to work together on the mod, and to those people, I meant no disprespect by no not repsonding immediately.I want this mod to be more of a community effort. So i've started by balancing the game in ways that are either overwhelmingly needed or with such little tweaks that no one will get in a twist about.
My thanks go out to Kitkun and Kyogre12. Thanks for the jump start guys. I hope you guys stay involved with this.
To the guys who have asked to work together, you're going to have to understand something about how I work. I'm very slow to trust the work of others when we're doing the same project. I get stuck on my own way and if I don't get my way, I tend to go off on my own. I get that this is childish, but for something like this mod, I'm willing to listen, but it needs to be damn convincing.
No one has to play this mod, but I hope the community does. If we can get the community to rally around this mod or any other balancing mod out there, this game could take leaps and bounds.
I'll work with people. I'd rather have this mod be a communal effort than just me.
This mod will use Occam's Razor: The Simplest Answer will be the right answer.
You will need WinRar to unzip the program. At least that's what I used and the mod worked. To install the mod you need to take the folder and copy it to
XP: C:\Documents and Settings\Username\Local Settings\Application Data\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\Mods-Entrenchment v1.03
Vista: C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\Mods-Entrenchment v1.03
>>>The MOD (Fixed)<<<
>>>THE MOD W/O Hotfix (Just in case you want to do it yourself)<<<
Balances
Ship Stat Adjustments:
Scouts:
The Scouts needed adjustments. With the way the game is set, the Advent scouts are ungodly strong, the TEC scouts are in the middle, strong, good enough to take out Illums, but still weaker than Advent, and Vasari scouts are extremely weak.
I set the balance marker here at just a little weaker than the current Advent Scout. I made TEC scouts do a little more damage but be a little less tough than its counterparts. The Advent scout has had it's health/shields nerfed slightly. Vasari is in the middle in both cases. This is creating variety in the units. The Advent unit is more of a meatshield capable of doing significant damage. TEC scouts are not as tough, but do more damage (not much but enough).
Vasari has been adjusted so that they're as tough as TEC scouts but don't do quite as much damage. They can capture neutrals. When you see the Vasari stats, you're going to go "holy crap, Amish, that's too much". Look at the Advent scout. It's entirely counterable and I've only made the Vasari scout compare to that.I swear, all I did was balance the numbers. I'll gladly show you the numbers if you would like to see them, but take my word for it. Vasari scouts were pathetic in combat.
Also, it's worth noting in the old state of balance scouts CAN beat light frigs. I've fixed it so they no longer do.
Ship Dynamics: The scouts all work as anti-lrf now, so Vasari has gotten some love. Advent and TEC haven't changed too much overall.
Basic Assault Frigates (AKA Light Frigates):
The light frig stats are actually only slightly changed. I fixed it so that there's a better balance in dps among the ships. Most of the stats here didn't even change. I wasn't aiming to change the light frigs significantly through the stats of the unit.
I kept the Disicple and Cobalt pretty close in stats. I kept the skirmisher close in toughness, but I lowered it's dps slightly. This is because the ship gets reintegration, so it needed to reflect that. The nerf isn't much, but the Cobalt and Disciple do more dps.
I gave these ships a +25% damage bonus against heavy armor. This puts the anti-heavy bonus at 175%, or +75% damage when attacking heavy armor. Effective eh?
Ship Dynamics: Overall, the toughness of all of the ships has been balanced. The DPS has been adjusted to a ratio of about 2 dps per ship slot as opposed to the previous stats. The Skirmisher was upped to 12.5 dps. I felt a 10% nerf in dps was necessary because this ship gets reintegration. Ironically, I still upped its damage from regular sins.
Long Range Frigates (Illum FIXIN TIME!):
I changed this class pretty significantly. What I've done is used a slightly revised version of what I suggested in previous posts. Overall, I've taken LRFS and taken them to a balance where they are all just a little tougher overall than the current Assailant. For Illums and LRMS this is a 10% nerf in toughness. For Vasari, I have not made the Assailant any tougher. They come out early and can be upgraded like crazy.
This can and probably will be changed, but I feel that since I nerfed the LRFS a little, and have buffed scouts and fighters directly, that nerfing lrf's might be a bit excessive and put them in obsolescence. I want to see and hear results from people playing people before I nerf these further.
Ship Dynamics: What I've done is overall nerfed the class by 10% in toughness. Assailants are where they were. I did not touch the DPS. Only the H/S stats. I want lrfs to be like archers, so I may be nerfing their health a little bit more, but it will be slight increments, not gigantic leaps that throw things out of whack.
Seige Frigates:
I haven't changed the actual ship stats, except for ship slots, which you can read below in the chart or follow in my later section on other changes. The only change here of note is I made Advent seige frigs scost 100 creds and 10 metal less than they do now. They are still the most costly seige frig, but they cost 25% more than their counterparts, which is a bit much dont ya think?
Ship Dynamics: Still frail. Fewer ship slots. 10 per instead of 14 (Which is ridiculous, devs what were you thinking)
Anti-strikecraft Frigates (AKA Flak):
This class was pretty varied. Vasari flak easily came in third, but I think we all know Vasari flak are still strong enough to crush fighters, so what I"ve done is set the bar just slightly lower than current Vasari flak. You'll see what I mean when you look at the stats. Overall, flak got a pretty significant dps nerf, but I think I've kept it so that flak do enough to destroy fighters significantly.
Vasari flak had to be buffed. It didn't compare to its counterparts. Buffed in health and shields, but nerfed in damage.
I felt I needed to readjust my changes here. Cykur noticed that I was nerfing flak, when instead, I should just buff fighter health. So, what I've done is instead gone in and adjusted flak to all bring about the same amount of impact as current Vasari flak. Some are tougher than others, some do more damage than others. Look below to see.
Basically, TEC and Advent have been nerfed, Vasari slightly buffed. Advent flak was unbelievably strong.
Ship Dynamics: Overall, still meaty beasts. Don't do as much damage as before so won't counter lrf's/bombers as effectively anymore, but still, overall, their role is a bit more defined now.
Total H/S
Carriers
I made only a small change here. The Adent carrier houses 50% more squads, but is only 25% tougher than its counterparts. I made it 50%. Other than that, no changes.
People have complained about doing this, since Advent carriers are already very very tough. I feel the same way, but not just about Advent carriers. I gave light frigs +25% against heavy armor, so they can and WILL destroy carriers.
Ship Dynamics: Overall, expensive as hell, but tough as hell too.
Heavy Cruisers (Time to fix the Enforcer)
The Glaring weak brother here is the enforcer. It was buffed everywhere. Kodiaks and Destras remain untouched.
Ship Dynamics: Should beat just about anything now. The Enforcer's dps is slightly lower than it's breatheren because of reintegration, much like with the skirmisher
Strikecraft (JESUS TEC had weak strikecraft)
Odd balance here. I didn't change much. I just balanced these ships. TEC was very weak in both categories, so I buffed them.
I gave fighters a 20% toughness blanket buff. This is to help with the fact that they die too quickly to flak. In addition, I buffed all anti-strikecraft abilities by 20% to correlate with this buff.
This shouldn't have too much effect on bombers, but we shall see. They're already very tough. They may be readjusted later.
Antimatter cost of strikecraft raised by 25%.
Ship Dynamics: Strikecraft work this way now. They won't die as quickly, but they won't be replaced as quickly either. I did this so that fighters can actually stand a chance to do their job, BUT IF THEY ARE LOST, the person who destroyed the strikecraft has time to get the carriers before strikecraft are back out in significant numbers. Get it? Also, TEC just got the boost it needed to compare.
Other Adjustments:
v.9 adjustments
v.91 Adjustments:
v1.01 Adjustments
Capital Ship Adjustments
I've included many changes from Kitkun's mod, HOWEVER, I've changed some things. Changes that I didn't agree with are in red. I put changes that I got rid of in strikethrough.
TEC:
Kol: Buff
Guass Rail Gun: Change damage from 300/550/800 to 400/650/900, change cooldown from 6/6/6 to 6/5/4, change AM from 75/75/75 to 75/67.5/60, increase range from 5000/5000/5000 to 6000/7000/8000.
Flak Burst: Buffed 20% in damage to correlate with fighter buff.
Adaptive Forcefield: Fine as is.
Finest Hour: Fine as is.
Sova: Buff
Missile Battery: Change AM from 125 to 110.
Embargo: Change Duration from 60/90/120 to 60/120/300. Fix bug where higher levels disables the effect of stopping tradeships. (Embargo rush is good on small maps, useless on larger maps. Increased duration on higher levels takes income down longer.)
Heavy Fighters: Change Damage bonus from 10/20/30 to 20/40/60, change Armor bonus from 1/2/3 to 2/4/6. (Only affects the Sova itself, but gives the craft much more damage while making them much more durable.) (I made the change big because reall, this ability will affect 7 squads at most)
Rapid Manufacturing: Change Duration from 45 to 240, change Cooldown from 120 to 360.
Akkan: Buff
Colonize+: Fix bug where free extractors do not always spawn. Change Range from 5000 to 6000, change free extractors from 0/1/2 to 1/2/4. (Colonize just a bit sooner with increased range, and brings the bonus a bit more in line with the Vasari.
Ion Bolt: Change AM from 85/85/85 to 85/80/75. (AM intensive, gives more incentive to level it up. Only good for interrupting anyways.)
Targeting Uplink: Change Accuracy bonus from 5/10/15 to 6/12/18, change Range bonus from 8/17/25 to 10/20/30. (Allows Flak to take out SC just a bit faster and gives the longer ranged TEC ships a bit more of a boost.)
Armistice: Fine as is.
Dunov: Buff
Shield Restore: Fine as is.
EMP Charge: Change to 360-degree targeting.
Magnetize: Change to interrupt.
Flux Field: Fine as is.
Marza: Buff
Radiation Bomb: Fine as is.
Raze Planet: Fine as is.
Incendiary Shells: Allow it to stack, change Damage/Sec from 3/4.5/6 to 1/2/3, change duration from 15 to 8. (Increasing damage several times should hurt a lot.) Unchanged. This ability costs no antimatter, so really it's a matter of do you risk spending antimatter on radiation bomb and raze planet or purely on raze planet but get the passive incendiary shell bonus?
Missile Barrage: Bump up graphics more.
Advent:
Radiance: Buff
Detonate Antimatter: Fine as is.
Animosity: Fix so that debuffed ships cannot attack other ships with any weapon that could attack the Radiance. Add 2% Mitigation, change cooldown from 35 to 45. (Actually makes it useful, since as is you just give a new order.)
Energy Absorption Armor: Fine as is.
Cleansing Brilliance: Fine as is.
Halcyon: Buff
Telekinetic Push: Does 20% more damage to correlate with the fighter buff.
Adept Drone Anima: Change extra Drones from 1/2/3 to 2/4/6.
Amplify Energy Aura: Fine as is.
Anima Tempest: Change from 30 drones to 60 drones. (Six extra squadrons worth. A real tempest there.)
Progenitor: Mixed
Colonize+: Change Cost reduction from 20/40/60 to 20/35/50, change cost reduction duration from 360/360/600 to 300/450/750. (Blasphemy, I know. This ability is insanely awesome as is. This allows you to still get a good bonus, and can wait a bit longer if you don't have the cash already.)
Malice: Change target cap from 8/16/24 to 12/20/28.
Shield Regeneration: Change shields restored per second from 37.5/50/62.5 to 37.5/47.5/57.5. (Another awesome ability. Ready the flames, plz.)
Resurrection: Fine as is.
Rapture: Fine as is.
Revelation: Buff
Reverie: Fine as is.
Guidance: Fix Autocast to not target ships with no active abilities. Add 3/6/9 AM recharge.
Clairvoyance: Start with Autocast off.
Provoke Hysteria: Fine as is.
Vasari:
Kortul: Buff
Power Surge: Change Shield recharge bonus from 75/150/225% to 300/600/900%, add 40/80/120 Wave damage.
Jam Weapons: Change Range from 3500/5000/7000 to 6000/7000/9000.
Disruptive Strikes: Fix to apply from Pulse Beams.
Volatile Nanites: Change debuff range from 2000 to 2500, change damage upon death range from 1000 to 1250, change damage upon death from 150 to 200. (A bit more useful against large fleets.)
Skirantra: Buff
Repair Cloud: Fine as is.
Scramble Bombers: Kill this ability. (Move it to Lasurak or something.) Replace with an ability that allows the Skirantra's Fighters to slow enemy strikecraft by 8/16/24% and slow regeneration by 30/60/90%, allow the Skirantra's bombers to apply this to non-strikecraft.
Microphasing Aura: Fine as is.
Replicate Forces: Change from 3 copies to 10 copies. (Much more useful in smaller groups.) I felt 10 would make the skirantra deisrable.
Jarrasul: Mixed
Colonize+: Change Duration from 240/480/720 to 240/360/600, add 1/2/3 extra constructors. (Building structures really, really fast for a short while. Not like you're going to take this over others often.)
Gravity Warhead: Fine as is.
Nano-disassembler: Change Armor reduction from -2/-4/-6 to -1/-3/-5. (More blasphemy. This ability just eats ships as is.) I didn't change this, but I wanted to highlight this. SInce I balanced the game, I felt this ability actually deserved the nerf. Assialants don't suck ass as much any more.
Drain Planet: Fine as is.
Antorak: Buff
Phase Out Hull: Change Duration from 6/8/10 to 16/20/24, allow sub-light engines to stay active. (Allows it to be used more defensively. Facilitates hit and run attacks.)
Distort Gravity: Add 100/200/300% rotation rate, change phase jump interference negation from 100/100/100% to 33.3/66.7/100%, add 25/50/75% phase lane destabilization negation, add 10/20/30% phase jump antimatter cost reduction.
Subversion: Change build rate penalty from 50/100/150 to 100/200/300, add damage over time to amount to 8/12/16% of planet health and 5/7.5/10% of population, change AM from 100/100/100 to 100/110/125, change cooldown from 75 to 150, remove stacking. (Powerful now. For damage, remember that it's over 5/7.5/10 minutes.)
Stabilize Phase Space: Fine as is.
Vulkoras: Buff
Phase Missile Swarm: Change to fire Phase Missiles with 15/30/45% chance to bypass shields. (Again, more a bug fix.)
Deploy Siege Platforms: Change AM from 100 to 80, change cooldown from 55 to 45.
Assault Specialization: Fine as is.
Disintegration: Change damage from 200/sec to 120/sec, change heal from 187.5 to 120, change to bypass shields. (960 damage/heal in total.)
I'm debatin that one. The Kodiak and Destra both go tier 2,4,5 for their upgrades. I've got a couple ideas for what to do with that. Who knows. I'll think of somethin.
Well for me I am settign my self some limits on what I will allow my self to change and what I won't change.
Things I will not change.Passive abilaties into active ones or vice vesa.Change the cost, possition, prerequisits, and numbers of labs of for a technologie.Change the weapons of a ship for an other. (Example taking phase missile out and putting wave cannons instead.)Change speeds on ship with the exception fo the carriers to remove a nerf they had recived.
A few other things I won't change either but I'll know them when I think of them. In part for not changing some things is to tyr and make sure I keep the sins flavor and I don't make it out to be a whole new game.
been playing your mod last few days, very well put together and nice, im not quite used to all the changes, and i am mostly a solo player, so perhaps it is different in mp, but i like it alot, brings a lot of things closer together.
Thanks for the nice work, hope you will update it, and think it would be nice to learn to give it a go online, but im a newb at that, so i will probably lose my hat, but worth the effort to see how it plays different than solo.
Thanks Amish,
-Teal
Very very nice!!! I like that idea alot!!! Mods can be many things, but I think you and Amish and MindsEye got the right view, that a Balance mod, is about Balance.
You are all doing a very commendable job and i hope the community can rally around your mods and enjoy them and we can get more players online as a result. As for myself, im a soloist, but im willing to go online and lose my socks for a bit, haha, it might even be interesting.
Thanks for the nice vision, and sticking to what a Balance Mod is Eadtaes,
I do believe, though, that the late Vasari wave upgrade is a flaw in the game. There's not any particular reason it should be so late.
And the mod is looking great now. I may download it in a bit. I assume the AI won't have any problems using it. Keep up the good work. It's sad, though, that you have to do what IC refuses.
Indeed it is. When we are done with this and done merging the 3 mods IC better act on it. AKA they better copy paste.
Interesting changes...the neutral nerf should help balance out the other Vasari improvements.
You buffed flak DPS and carrier build times by a similiar amount. This allows the strikecraft to remain in the air a bit longer before they are brought under control, with the addition that flak is a lot weaker vs other ships. One possibility is to raise strikecraft hull points 25% instead of nerfing flak firepower 25% so that balance remains but flak is not totally useless against other ships.
The Advent carrier is probably too tough now. Having fewer carriers to micromanage is an advantage to the Advent player who can rotate carriers in and out of fights to get repaired before they are destroyed. This is one of the reasons ships don't have a linear progression of H/S to cost.
I applaud the removal of the extractor from asteroids...I always felt that asteroids gave too much benefit for how easy they are to get. Heck, if it were me, they would require level 3 civic research.
Too bad I don't have a system set up to test it out, or I would.
very good changes Amish!
So is the community going to get behind this? I have refrained from multiplayer for a long time due to the imbalances, and it looks like most of them are fixed in this mod. Maybe the devs will see it and implement some of the changes
I've been trying this mod in singleplayer. Excellent indeed. Just need the cap ship balances and we're set. I especially like all the balance changes to the planets. I hate ice and volcanic with only two mines. I also hate dead asteroids and magnetic clouds.
Hey Raging, hope the house move is going well, and you'll be able to find some more time to dedicate to this commendable endeavour! I've also had a quick look at EadTaes' thread as it looks like you both (as well as MindsEye) are working towards the same goal. Well, to all of you working on balancing the game (hopefully!) and to anyone else who's interested, here's a big thank you, you've definitely y got one more person voicing their support hopefully this will provide you all with some more incentive to continue the work you're doing
If any of you guys can give me a time window (and your time zone please!) of when you will most likely be on ICO, I'll join in when I can.
ignore this post. I want to keep tabs on this thread.
nicely done amish i am looking forward to testing this now that i have some free time.... oh yeah do you needs some help with this i ll be gald to help with the coding i uselly mod this game when i am out of tonw so i have exp with this so if you need help pm and ill help with what i can when i can
Well, this post is fyc...
I do code, so if you need something worked on, I'd be glad to do it. Since this is for entrenchment (I'm assuming), I'll have to convert files back to vanilla, but I could still do some limited testing... I'm still trying to get my hands on Entre though, so hopefully I'll get it. All the same, I'd be willing to help.
So how's the mod getting along? Looking forward to cap balance changes.
Modding still in progress. Moved over the past two weeks, but it's in the works.
I dearly hope that the three balance mods in development do get merged. That or one emerges dominant and the other two die, or IC make one an official patch.
Otherwise we'll fracture the community even more.
I'm going to get my friends to install this, we'll do some playtesting for you.
On a more technical note, have you considered setting up a subversion (SVN) service for the mod? That way everyone could be sure they have the latest files.
EDIT: Your second download link doesn't work, so I downloaded the only copy of your mod I could find. However, I can't work out what version it is because there isn't a readme file or similar.
If you could add one or otherwise indicate the version number that would be useful.
EDIT: I'm just pointing these things out to help, not criticise, btw.
The path you've listed for the installation is wrong. They should be:
XP: C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Application Data\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\Mods-Entrenchment v1.03
Most of us probably know where to put the mods by now, but the reason I'm installing your mod instead of one of the other two is simply because you've presented your post in a much better way and hence made it easy to see what changes you've made and why.
I just want to help complete that illusion of professionalism for you.
Right.
Enough waffle about presentation.
I downloaded the mod from here: http://www.filefront.com/14196353/Raging-Amish-Balance-Mod.rar/
I'm playing a singleplayer game on a pre-made map, and I see a dead asteroid with no extractors. Is this expected in a pre-made map? Or should it have an extractor as you say in your post?
Ah, ok, I'll give a quick answer because I only have about 1 minute to write this. That first link doesn't have any of the adjustments in orange. The only thing I'm really doing with sins anymore is making the final version of the mod. It's in the works. I'm just busy getting used to my schoolwork. Semester just started and I need to get that under wraps before I do anything else.
suggestion: make LRF damage against capital/structures weaker - so fleets would be more balanced ,and the chance to meet a LRF spammer would be lesser.
another thing - flak hp is already too high,making it even more for vasari is a serious mistake.all flak hp should be nerfed[for a boost to vasa,dont nerf theirs ]
The second link doesn't work
I sympathise entirely with you not having time to work on the mod. I had to stop a project I was involved in recently due to my 6th Form work
Actually I'm gettin a good bit done. I've been updating the post with things that I've done, but haven't uploaded the file because I don't want to put up an incomplete version.
Embargo bugfix;
BuffEmbargoSelf.entity
Fixed Code:
maxTargetCount Level:0 -1.000000 Level:1 -1.000000 Level:2 -1.000000
Lines 59-62 should look like that. The bug is that Level1 and 2 don't have a modifier.
New verison out. Tell me if something is wrong with the link, and point out flaws left over in the mod.
Thanks for taking note of some of my ramblings.
The new link works perfectly, and installation could only be easier if you made the download a self extracting archive.
I've just been fiddling with that, actually. I can make a working XP SFX (Self Extracting Archive), but getting the extractor to work on both XP and Vista (i.e. put the mod in the write place for either operating system) would probably require either coding something myself or using a more intelligent tool.
Anyway, everything seems to be working.
Thanks again for your work on this.
Looks good I seem to be getting minidumps with the mod though (and yet not in stock Sins). I'l do some more testing. Because I was getting MD's in the previous version as well.
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