RAKK Community Balance MOD v1.01
My first official release is out. I'll bet there's some issues in here still, but I think I got most of them.
Many thanks to Kitkun. Saved me a lot of hassle with balancing the caps.
To anyone reading this, you're here because the released version of Sins is NOT balanced. This mod is purely to address balance issues and at least bring the game closer to ideal balance. I'm not going to claim that I fixed all of the balance issues, but I believe that I got pretty close.
When I mentioned that I wanted to take a stab at balancing the game, I immediately had a plethora of messages in my private message folder. Some had suggestions. Others were asking to work together on the mod, and to those people, I meant no disprespect by no not repsonding immediately.I want this mod to be more of a community effort. So i've started by balancing the game in ways that are either overwhelmingly needed or with such little tweaks that no one will get in a twist about.
My thanks go out to Kitkun and Kyogre12. Thanks for the jump start guys. I hope you guys stay involved with this.
To the guys who have asked to work together, you're going to have to understand something about how I work. I'm very slow to trust the work of others when we're doing the same project. I get stuck on my own way and if I don't get my way, I tend to go off on my own. I get that this is childish, but for something like this mod, I'm willing to listen, but it needs to be damn convincing.
No one has to play this mod, but I hope the community does. If we can get the community to rally around this mod or any other balancing mod out there, this game could take leaps and bounds.
I'll work with people. I'd rather have this mod be a communal effort than just me.
This mod will use Occam's Razor: The Simplest Answer will be the right answer.
You will need WinRar to unzip the program. At least that's what I used and the mod worked. To install the mod you need to take the folder and copy it to
XP: C:\Documents and Settings\Username\Local Settings\Application Data\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\Mods-Entrenchment v1.03
Vista: C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Ironclad Games\Sins of a Solar Empire\Mods-Entrenchment v1.03
>>>The MOD (Fixed)<<<
>>>THE MOD W/O Hotfix (Just in case you want to do it yourself)<<<
Balances
Ship Stat Adjustments:
Scouts:
The Scouts needed adjustments. With the way the game is set, the Advent scouts are ungodly strong, the TEC scouts are in the middle, strong, good enough to take out Illums, but still weaker than Advent, and Vasari scouts are extremely weak.
I set the balance marker here at just a little weaker than the current Advent Scout. I made TEC scouts do a little more damage but be a little less tough than its counterparts. The Advent scout has had it's health/shields nerfed slightly. Vasari is in the middle in both cases. This is creating variety in the units. The Advent unit is more of a meatshield capable of doing significant damage. TEC scouts are not as tough, but do more damage (not much but enough).
Vasari has been adjusted so that they're as tough as TEC scouts but don't do quite as much damage. They can capture neutrals. When you see the Vasari stats, you're going to go "holy crap, Amish, that's too much". Look at the Advent scout. It's entirely counterable and I've only made the Vasari scout compare to that.I swear, all I did was balance the numbers. I'll gladly show you the numbers if you would like to see them, but take my word for it. Vasari scouts were pathetic in combat.
Also, it's worth noting in the old state of balance scouts CAN beat light frigs. I've fixed it so they no longer do.
Ship Dynamics: The scouts all work as anti-lrf now, so Vasari has gotten some love. Advent and TEC haven't changed too much overall.
Basic Assault Frigates (AKA Light Frigates):
The light frig stats are actually only slightly changed. I fixed it so that there's a better balance in dps among the ships. Most of the stats here didn't even change. I wasn't aiming to change the light frigs significantly through the stats of the unit.
I kept the Disicple and Cobalt pretty close in stats. I kept the skirmisher close in toughness, but I lowered it's dps slightly. This is because the ship gets reintegration, so it needed to reflect that. The nerf isn't much, but the Cobalt and Disciple do more dps.
I gave these ships a +25% damage bonus against heavy armor. This puts the anti-heavy bonus at 175%, or +75% damage when attacking heavy armor. Effective eh?
Ship Dynamics: Overall, the toughness of all of the ships has been balanced. The DPS has been adjusted to a ratio of about 2 dps per ship slot as opposed to the previous stats. The Skirmisher was upped to 12.5 dps. I felt a 10% nerf in dps was necessary because this ship gets reintegration. Ironically, I still upped its damage from regular sins.
Long Range Frigates (Illum FIXIN TIME!):
I changed this class pretty significantly. What I've done is used a slightly revised version of what I suggested in previous posts. Overall, I've taken LRFS and taken them to a balance where they are all just a little tougher overall than the current Assailant. For Illums and LRMS this is a 10% nerf in toughness. For Vasari, I have not made the Assailant any tougher. They come out early and can be upgraded like crazy.
This can and probably will be changed, but I feel that since I nerfed the LRFS a little, and have buffed scouts and fighters directly, that nerfing lrf's might be a bit excessive and put them in obsolescence. I want to see and hear results from people playing people before I nerf these further.
Ship Dynamics: What I've done is overall nerfed the class by 10% in toughness. Assailants are where they were. I did not touch the DPS. Only the H/S stats. I want lrfs to be like archers, so I may be nerfing their health a little bit more, but it will be slight increments, not gigantic leaps that throw things out of whack.
Seige Frigates:
I haven't changed the actual ship stats, except for ship slots, which you can read below in the chart or follow in my later section on other changes. The only change here of note is I made Advent seige frigs scost 100 creds and 10 metal less than they do now. They are still the most costly seige frig, but they cost 25% more than their counterparts, which is a bit much dont ya think?
Ship Dynamics: Still frail. Fewer ship slots. 10 per instead of 14 (Which is ridiculous, devs what were you thinking)
Anti-strikecraft Frigates (AKA Flak):
This class was pretty varied. Vasari flak easily came in third, but I think we all know Vasari flak are still strong enough to crush fighters, so what I"ve done is set the bar just slightly lower than current Vasari flak. You'll see what I mean when you look at the stats. Overall, flak got a pretty significant dps nerf, but I think I've kept it so that flak do enough to destroy fighters significantly.
Vasari flak had to be buffed. It didn't compare to its counterparts. Buffed in health and shields, but nerfed in damage.
I felt I needed to readjust my changes here. Cykur noticed that I was nerfing flak, when instead, I should just buff fighter health. So, what I've done is instead gone in and adjusted flak to all bring about the same amount of impact as current Vasari flak. Some are tougher than others, some do more damage than others. Look below to see.
Basically, TEC and Advent have been nerfed, Vasari slightly buffed. Advent flak was unbelievably strong.
Ship Dynamics: Overall, still meaty beasts. Don't do as much damage as before so won't counter lrf's/bombers as effectively anymore, but still, overall, their role is a bit more defined now.
Total H/S
Carriers
I made only a small change here. The Adent carrier houses 50% more squads, but is only 25% tougher than its counterparts. I made it 50%. Other than that, no changes.
People have complained about doing this, since Advent carriers are already very very tough. I feel the same way, but not just about Advent carriers. I gave light frigs +25% against heavy armor, so they can and WILL destroy carriers.
Ship Dynamics: Overall, expensive as hell, but tough as hell too.
Heavy Cruisers (Time to fix the Enforcer)
The Glaring weak brother here is the enforcer. It was buffed everywhere. Kodiaks and Destras remain untouched.
Ship Dynamics: Should beat just about anything now. The Enforcer's dps is slightly lower than it's breatheren because of reintegration, much like with the skirmisher
Strikecraft (JESUS TEC had weak strikecraft)
Odd balance here. I didn't change much. I just balanced these ships. TEC was very weak in both categories, so I buffed them.
I gave fighters a 20% toughness blanket buff. This is to help with the fact that they die too quickly to flak. In addition, I buffed all anti-strikecraft abilities by 20% to correlate with this buff.
This shouldn't have too much effect on bombers, but we shall see. They're already very tough. They may be readjusted later.
Antimatter cost of strikecraft raised by 25%.
Ship Dynamics: Strikecraft work this way now. They won't die as quickly, but they won't be replaced as quickly either. I did this so that fighters can actually stand a chance to do their job, BUT IF THEY ARE LOST, the person who destroyed the strikecraft has time to get the carriers before strikecraft are back out in significant numbers. Get it? Also, TEC just got the boost it needed to compare.
Other Adjustments:
v.9 adjustments
v.91 Adjustments:
v1.01 Adjustments
Capital Ship Adjustments
I've included many changes from Kitkun's mod, HOWEVER, I've changed some things. Changes that I didn't agree with are in red. I put changes that I got rid of in strikethrough.
TEC:
Kol: Buff
Guass Rail Gun: Change damage from 300/550/800 to 400/650/900, change cooldown from 6/6/6 to 6/5/4, change AM from 75/75/75 to 75/67.5/60, increase range from 5000/5000/5000 to 6000/7000/8000.
Flak Burst: Buffed 20% in damage to correlate with fighter buff.
Adaptive Forcefield: Fine as is.
Finest Hour: Fine as is.
Sova: Buff
Missile Battery: Change AM from 125 to 110.
Embargo: Change Duration from 60/90/120 to 60/120/300. Fix bug where higher levels disables the effect of stopping tradeships. (Embargo rush is good on small maps, useless on larger maps. Increased duration on higher levels takes income down longer.)
Heavy Fighters: Change Damage bonus from 10/20/30 to 20/40/60, change Armor bonus from 1/2/3 to 2/4/6. (Only affects the Sova itself, but gives the craft much more damage while making them much more durable.) (I made the change big because reall, this ability will affect 7 squads at most)
Rapid Manufacturing: Change Duration from 45 to 240, change Cooldown from 120 to 360.
Akkan: Buff
Colonize+: Fix bug where free extractors do not always spawn. Change Range from 5000 to 6000, change free extractors from 0/1/2 to 1/2/4. (Colonize just a bit sooner with increased range, and brings the bonus a bit more in line with the Vasari.
Ion Bolt: Change AM from 85/85/85 to 85/80/75. (AM intensive, gives more incentive to level it up. Only good for interrupting anyways.)
Targeting Uplink: Change Accuracy bonus from 5/10/15 to 6/12/18, change Range bonus from 8/17/25 to 10/20/30. (Allows Flak to take out SC just a bit faster and gives the longer ranged TEC ships a bit more of a boost.)
Armistice: Fine as is.
Dunov: Buff
Shield Restore: Fine as is.
EMP Charge: Change to 360-degree targeting.
Magnetize: Change to interrupt.
Flux Field: Fine as is.
Marza: Buff
Radiation Bomb: Fine as is.
Raze Planet: Fine as is.
Incendiary Shells: Allow it to stack, change Damage/Sec from 3/4.5/6 to 1/2/3, change duration from 15 to 8. (Increasing damage several times should hurt a lot.) Unchanged. This ability costs no antimatter, so really it's a matter of do you risk spending antimatter on radiation bomb and raze planet or purely on raze planet but get the passive incendiary shell bonus?
Missile Barrage: Bump up graphics more.
Advent:
Radiance: Buff
Detonate Antimatter: Fine as is.
Animosity: Fix so that debuffed ships cannot attack other ships with any weapon that could attack the Radiance. Add 2% Mitigation, change cooldown from 35 to 45. (Actually makes it useful, since as is you just give a new order.)
Energy Absorption Armor: Fine as is.
Cleansing Brilliance: Fine as is.
Halcyon: Buff
Telekinetic Push: Does 20% more damage to correlate with the fighter buff.
Adept Drone Anima: Change extra Drones from 1/2/3 to 2/4/6.
Amplify Energy Aura: Fine as is.
Anima Tempest: Change from 30 drones to 60 drones. (Six extra squadrons worth. A real tempest there.)
Progenitor: Mixed
Colonize+: Change Cost reduction from 20/40/60 to 20/35/50, change cost reduction duration from 360/360/600 to 300/450/750. (Blasphemy, I know. This ability is insanely awesome as is. This allows you to still get a good bonus, and can wait a bit longer if you don't have the cash already.)
Malice: Change target cap from 8/16/24 to 12/20/28.
Shield Regeneration: Change shields restored per second from 37.5/50/62.5 to 37.5/47.5/57.5. (Another awesome ability. Ready the flames, plz.)
Resurrection: Fine as is.
Rapture: Fine as is.
Revelation: Buff
Reverie: Fine as is.
Guidance: Fix Autocast to not target ships with no active abilities. Add 3/6/9 AM recharge.
Clairvoyance: Start with Autocast off.
Provoke Hysteria: Fine as is.
Vasari:
Kortul: Buff
Power Surge: Change Shield recharge bonus from 75/150/225% to 300/600/900%, add 40/80/120 Wave damage.
Jam Weapons: Change Range from 3500/5000/7000 to 6000/7000/9000.
Disruptive Strikes: Fix to apply from Pulse Beams.
Volatile Nanites: Change debuff range from 2000 to 2500, change damage upon death range from 1000 to 1250, change damage upon death from 150 to 200. (A bit more useful against large fleets.)
Skirantra: Buff
Repair Cloud: Fine as is.
Scramble Bombers: Kill this ability. (Move it to Lasurak or something.) Replace with an ability that allows the Skirantra's Fighters to slow enemy strikecraft by 8/16/24% and slow regeneration by 30/60/90%, allow the Skirantra's bombers to apply this to non-strikecraft.
Microphasing Aura: Fine as is.
Replicate Forces: Change from 3 copies to 10 copies. (Much more useful in smaller groups.) I felt 10 would make the skirantra deisrable.
Jarrasul: Mixed
Colonize+: Change Duration from 240/480/720 to 240/360/600, add 1/2/3 extra constructors. (Building structures really, really fast for a short while. Not like you're going to take this over others often.)
Gravity Warhead: Fine as is.
Nano-disassembler: Change Armor reduction from -2/-4/-6 to -1/-3/-5. (More blasphemy. This ability just eats ships as is.) I didn't change this, but I wanted to highlight this. SInce I balanced the game, I felt this ability actually deserved the nerf. Assialants don't suck ass as much any more.
Drain Planet: Fine as is.
Antorak: Buff
Phase Out Hull: Change Duration from 6/8/10 to 16/20/24, allow sub-light engines to stay active. (Allows it to be used more defensively. Facilitates hit and run attacks.)
Distort Gravity: Add 100/200/300% rotation rate, change phase jump interference negation from 100/100/100% to 33.3/66.7/100%, add 25/50/75% phase lane destabilization negation, add 10/20/30% phase jump antimatter cost reduction.
Subversion: Change build rate penalty from 50/100/150 to 100/200/300, add damage over time to amount to 8/12/16% of planet health and 5/7.5/10% of population, change AM from 100/100/100 to 100/110/125, change cooldown from 75 to 150, remove stacking. (Powerful now. For damage, remember that it's over 5/7.5/10 minutes.)
Stabilize Phase Space: Fine as is.
Vulkoras: Buff
Phase Missile Swarm: Change to fire Phase Missiles with 15/30/45% chance to bypass shields. (Again, more a bug fix.)
Deploy Siege Platforms: Change AM from 100 to 80, change cooldown from 55 to 45.
Assault Specialization: Fine as is.
Disintegration: Change damage from 200/sec to 120/sec, change heal from 187.5 to 120, change to bypass shields. (960 damage/heal in total.)
I'll check it out, and I'm thrilled that people have already played this. Right now, I'm going back through the files as a double check to make sure that I made all the fixes that I said I did. I don't think it'll be out tonight, as I won't be around, but tomorrow or friday it should be.
I will definitely be re-balancing Vasari. That much I can assure you will be in the next version.
Note that I tec pluse gun tec to lvl 2 full since lfs have some purpose now . Though the vas lfs start with 12 dps hehe.
Any about balancing Vas SB take a look at what mindseye mod does to try to balance them. Also Superfleet when can we do some more tests. He he
Hey RA...dont know if this was talked about or not but i read through the post and saw nothing about gaurdians...
Are you atleast contemplating fixing/nerfing repulse?
my suggestion is to make repulse not aoe. and buff the cost (antimatter). so only push one ship at atime per gaurdian (cannot push caps) but it costs less AM to do so...
Repulse Firing Cost, Antimatter consumption rate, and delay time between uses doubled.
It's in there
havent got around to testing repulse yet but from what you have said it should work fine. btw any one intrested in becoming a tester should talk to me(1st warfleet) cus right now i am amishs man tester. you can of course test yoru self but organizing it would be much easier than random test sessions.
Regarding neutrals, what about upping the AM recharge of colony ships? I've always found these ships fairly useless because that low AM recharge means they spend so much time sitting around in grav wells waiting for AM; perhaps with a faster rate TEC and Advent can become more competative in neutrals. Of course, the Vasari will still have the advantage as their scouts are tougher than colony ships.
Also, have you considered the implications of the Dynamic Battle System? It basically changes the fighting physics of ships from their current static one to that of fighters/bombers. While I think this is inappropriate for capitals/cruisers/lrfs I think it could be a solution to LF inbalance, with a little tweaking of course.
I can already tell that teh Dynamic Battle System, thou I find it very fun, is not going to be an option we will concider since it breaks away from SINS... sinsness. We have to find and other way, all we are trying to do is change the balance not create a conversion mod.
There are a few possible solutions for bringing the TEC and Advent colony ships' neutral capturing ability up some.
1> Sobric's suggestion of upping AM recharge rate. But this also adds the ability to colonize faster and I don't know how that'd balance out.
2> Lower the AM cost of resource capture for the two ships.
3> Giving the ships a boost in total AM of around 10 or 15. Though this would also have an effect of making colonizing faster.
But this is all on the assumption that you all think this is the way to fix the imbalance of Vasari and neutrals. Vasari will always have the upper hand in this area (and they should). Just not so big of one that it throws the game off.
Also I'm new to game balance talk so if I totally overlooked something let me know. I want to learn about this all as I find it interesting how you all can figure this stuff out.
The main imbalance with neutrals, at least in my opinion, is that the amount that they give is so high, and you can get the same amount from a neutral on the other side of the map as one right next to your homeworld. If that system is to be kept (i.e. no allegiance factor on neutrals like planets), then the overall income from these should be lowered.
This doesn't take away the edge Vasari have. They still need to search for neutrals, but by taking away from the amount that neutrals provide we take away an edge from Vasari that goes from "obscene and just too excessive" to "just right, balanced, and a creative twist to vasari". Right now it's not the latter.
oui captain amish. i am sorry about complaining about vasari lfs higher firepwoer in test games. i forgot about weopons research. which does bring me to another point. will you mod advent laser research since the vasasri research is now more effective to your improvments? also how do you give karma?
The little thumbs up icon below the post gives karma.
And I see your point, RA. It does seem strange (totally just in a logical sense) that extractors deep in space away from planets produce more than extractors specifically made by the factions and near a planet. They should be more of a slight boost to any economy, not a main source.
well vas lfs are more expensive and take 7 slots so the the 12 dps starting make sense.
Looks very very interesting, i look forward to downloading the mod and looking at how it plays. Most of my experience however is with single player and may not be applicable to how many play in multi-player, but it will be interesting to see. I play mostly Advent, though lately Tec more often, and Vasari on occasion, but it will be interesting to see how one races strengths are countered by anothers, or how one races weaknesses are exploited by the others.
Keep up the good work and will give it a go over the weekend and let you know on monday.
Look forward to an update as well, as that means that you will have covered more ground and closer to an overall balance across the entire game.
Take care and keep Modding!!!
-Teal
amish,
could you give some brief thoughs on how you plan to balance capships and starbases?? (really wanna see how u manage subversion and scramble bombers)
also fr volcanic and ice planets, change the resource extractors to 3-5 instead of 3-4, itll make it rewarding to the player who goes through the trouble of trying to get the planet.
I would say you would need a new version of Ice/Volcanic planet, thjat spawns onyl next to your HW.
New version is out folks! Enjoy! (about the 3-5 mine planets, I'm not so sure, and for the moment I say nay, but gimme a bit to sit on it. I think I may be changing my mind on this one.
Amish X Fire/TS
Starbase construction time rasied by 50%. I can't find the file line to up the build rate when in enemy gravity wells,
its in the game constants file
This is for everyone who wonders where I am. I am currently in the process of moving. Over the next two weeks, I will not be online as much as I normally am, if at all.
With me moving, having less drive to play this game (it's getting boring, no strategy what so ever), and the fact that modding the game to get the entire community to adopt the mod is just too much of a hassle (writing this post and making the mod eats at hours I don't have), and you have an Amishman who's ready to hang up his pitchfork for the moment.
I'll still be around on the forums. Just won't be playing much. If the game gets patched (and that's only if the patch in somehow similar to the above adjustments made to the game), or if there enough guys here asking to play with the mod, I'll start playin more.
I'll release a third version of the mod if people really desire it, but to Eadtaes, who I know is out there, you'd best merge the mods on your own. I'm not going to be around to sit down as long as we'd need to. Take what you will from this mod. It's not all perfect, but it's a start.
On the Ice/Volcanic more then 4 mines is to much. I've play a few mods were they were 5 mines or more and it's to much income.
Amish okay I understand your situation How ever I woudl realy need for you to take some time to go online on X-Fire and TS so we can talk things over. I will be neededing your imput into Vasari and info on your mods specificaly what's your changed int he game files for the extractors. I need the info for Vasari since apparently Vasari in my mod might be a bit to week and I am not the most skilled Vasari player out there and I know you are.
I can do the merging alone by taking what you've alreadone but I realy need your feedback and your oppinion on some issues to help me dicide or ratehr decide together what is best. I have and opinion how ever it is just the opinion of 1 man an gettignt he opinion of more then 1 person for a balance mod liek this IS CRUCIAL. I NEED YOUR VOICE AND YOUR SAY IN IT.
Oh don't worry, that much I can do. I'm not opting out, i guess i should have been clearer. The blunt fact is over the next two weeks I'm either going to be at work or in the slow process of moving. Sins is a distant third on my list of priorities. I will gladly give my input. I'm not leaving the community, just giving a heads up that I won't be around much for the next couple of weeks.
Okay then when you have time get on xfire and my TS and howler I'll be there.
Have you considered moving the Vasari wave upgrades from tier 4 and up to tier 2 and up? As of current it unbalances both the Vasari and specifically their enforcer early on.
Perconaly I am not keen at all at changing techs lvls and cost and positions. I would prefer to achive the balance via other tools.
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