-Anyone else excited about this game? As someone who spent way too much time with the bauldars gate games back in the day, to see them come out with a "spiritual" successor is pretty exciting. I'm interested in the whole "playing through your characters origin story" as a game mechanic. I hope the game has deep character development, and isn't just focused on the story...though the story does look impressive. I'm a big fan of other BioWare games like the Kotor games, but again, those were more focused on the story than character development.
You're forgetting THQ in that list. Dawn of War 2 requires you register your copy with a Steam account, even if you bought a physical copy at a retailer. Oh, and also a Games for Windows Live account, of course. I was really looking forward to that game, but TWO third party programs required was a bit much for me.
As regards DRM in general: I'd be a LOT more sympathetic to the concept of Draconian DRM if it actually kept the pirates out. I don't argue with success. However, the complete and utter failure of every single DRM to date (short of MMOs, and even then...) makes me lose every shred of respect I could possibly have for the "We have to inconvenience our customers to protect our product." argument. That stuff only flies if it actually protects the product.
No companies think that any DRM will "prevent all piracy", and few opponents try to make that argument anymore, for fear of not being taken at all seriously. In even the most severe situations, it is only intended to be a speedbump.
Secondly, none of the examples specified, apply to the *officially announced* protection for this game, which is...simple disk check. Please stop trying to apply your agenda to this specific game, which is simply not subject to any of the kind of horror stories you might wish to conjure.
Simple disk check. EA. A game people want to buy and play. Deal with it.
My biggest concern with this game is EA - given Bioware's track record I'm fairly confident the game itself will be good, and come with a nice editor. My concern relates to EA and drm restrictions, which will probably affect if I buy it. Disk check? fine. Online (1-off) activation? Fine. Frequent and/or constant online checks required to play single player? Not fine; Restrictions on the number of installations? Not fine.
Basically if I can use it when+where I want, i'll be happy.
DRM (like what EA foisted on us in Mass Effect) is the digital equivalent of trying to stop chocolate bar theft by running criminal background checks on everybody who tries to buy chocolate bars from you. That fiasco was NOT Bioware's idea. They said as much, it came from above them and they couldn't do anything about it until a massive forum outcry erupted. EA then backed down and gave us the version we got, instead of the "hey if you're not online every week you can't play" nonsense.
So when people have a problem with EA in relation to Bioware, it's not coming out of nowhere. It's coming out of the previous track record. I refuse to buy games with that crap on them anymore, due to the day when Mass Effect randomly decided I was a pirate. If they're going to inflict this nonsense on their paying customers while the pirates get a non-defective version of the game, why would I ever give them money?
It's so completely wrong-headed that I'm surprised even management hasn't figured out that it doesn't work.
@Bingjack - Hmm... Maybe you misread my post or are reading too much into it. I love BW and have purchased every game they published excluding the ones with EA DRM on them. Additionally, I'm not claiming that anything nefarious is going on behind the scenes and given BWs founder is a VP at EA I have some hopes for the company for what it is worth. That however does not change my mind that EAs (as well as others) draconian DRM methods are pure evil. You can call such an opinion "childish" if you like. Hell some people call lots of less offensive stuff worse due to religious dogma. Oddly enough it is the "predictable mistakes" that pretty much compels one to think they are "evil" otherwise why make them?
Anyway, the bottom line is I will not support a company that continuously seeks to undermine the rights of its customers, provides shit support and jack up costs whenever the hint of an opportunity arises and considers gamers a step above something that crawled out from under a rock and offers nothing in return. Moreover I'm not the problem. I'm the solution. I'm a very proactive customer and I'm one with money and I happen to have some connections here and there in different areas and if your best practices piss me off I'm going do my best to draw attention to such things. If you think helping others make informed decisions about products and the companies they support is wrong then please move to Crawford, Texas. In my world it is called doing the right thing.
I boycotted every EA title for some time and organized several large scale protests over EAs practices and I'll do it again if we gets fucked with DA:O. Additionally I also supported EA when it was wrongfully accused of bullshit via "seXbox" scandal the same as I did Ubi when it started to experiment with no DRM. I will also provisionally forego my boycott of EA products and purchase DA:O because on the surface it seems like things might be OK but I have concerns justly so given EA history. If you call that sour grapes - then so be it.
Regarding you comment about SD and its DRM, it is fine by me because it is not draconian nor invasive or going to cause damage to my system or hardware, it does not require a permanent connection to the Internet, I can backup all my titles locally and I don’t have to pay additional fees for anything or to access my titles online anytime and I can download them all as often as I want as well get continuous updates and support also for free from SD. Meeting them half way? Hell I'm rolling out the red carpet...
Again I don’t where got your opinion that I'm unreasonable regarding companies and reality but that is a two way street and EA simply seems to think it is a one way express ramp. Anyway lets agree to disagree on things.
Which is why they patch out the DRM after the first month or so, because then even the toughest DRM will be cracked, the game plastered all over the internet and there is no further purpose to activations and all that kind of stuff.
Oh wait, they don't. My mistake.
Their objective is irrelevant for the consumer. The result is a speedbump for pirates (if that) and abiding discomfort for the legitimate consumer.
And if it's actually just a disk check (ie. not with a creative new definition of "disk check" or duplicitous"not really DRM, honest") I will happily buy it. Assuming the forum doesn't explode with "Oh my god, it's full of bugs!", but that would be rather a-typical for Bioware. (if not for EA games)
Maybe. But what I've *definitely* done is engage in a heated debate about a *game* in the wee morning hours after gettting back from a night on the town, and as a result gotten *way* too argumentative about it( not to mention long winded).
I stepped over the line in tone and forcefulness, and I apologize to you and Zaisha, and anyone else who may have been offended. I'm afraid I get a little bit surly in such situations.
For what it's worth though, here's the announcement from Bioware:
If this doesn't make gamers happy, then I think we really have to start asking ourselves what will.
No worries brother, happens to all of us from time to time.
If what you say is true, I will be the happiest man on earth later this year.
Although if they are simply wordsmithing here (and just mean for example constant internet connection for single player), then count me out.
Bottom line folks - we keep buying the stuff we complain about, they will keep doing it. We start showing some restraint (even on games we have been waiting for), things will change.
Hey Sola. If you look a couple posts up, you'll see I posted and linked the announcement from Bioware where they spell out that they wont be using SecuRom, and online activations wont be required, so you don't have to take my word for it
Spartan : Yep, that "You're all pirates or idiots." was one of the all time dumbest comments I have ever read PERIOD. However, over the past 6 months or so I have noticed a decidedly different tone coming from EA, which is nice to see. On the other hand, we have good ol' Bobby Kotick of Activision. First he admits he's whoring out his franchises until the public is sick of them and drops all of his original IPs. When one of THOSE, Brutal Legend, starts getting positive press, he starts a court action, trying to claim that he somehow magically still owns the IP. Meanwhile, he's publically mused about maybe charging $10 more than average for Call of Duty : Modern Warfare 2 when it comes out. His reason basically boiled down to "Just to see if I can." And of course, Ubi just released their quarterly financials (which weren't good)...and of course every cent they lost is completely the fault of those scoundrel pirates...not the fact that, oh...90% of their games they've released recently have been crap.
Sola : That last part of your comment about showing some restraint...I couldn't agree more. I'd like to see more gamers vote with their wallets instead of complaining about something and then going ahead and buying it anyway.
At the very least wait 6 months for its price to plummet to the $20 range...at least if you buy it then the company doesn't make as much (and the DRM you have a problem with might be removed at that point, anyway).
Well, I would really love to believe that Bioware's plan to turn EA's douchebags' opinion upside down through their policy of allowing Anti-DRM discussion in their forum to learn what it is that bothers their customers and communicating it to them finally came to it's fruition, and I actually did.
That was until the stupid constant need to be online to play C&C4 was revealed. I won't go as far as saying EA is plotting some evil kind of new scheme for DO:A without proof. However a certain suspicion is lingering in the backof my mind.
I wasn't about to pre-order DA:O anyway, because I don't purchase ANY game without reading the forums for a few months concerning bugs and other flaws anymore. So will have enough time to see whether my suspicion is going to be proven valid or wrong. If it's gonna be proven wrong however, I'll be the loudest one around to sing praises to EA's honor.
Well, I don't want to seem like I'm defending EA. I'm not. They've engaged in any number of indefensible anti consumer and anti competitive practices in the past, and Im certain they will continue to do so in the future, and have released games in the past that were so marred by excessive DRM, that they should not have been purchased by consumers.
Still, they are not going anywhere, and as much as one *should not* purchase the excessive DRM games, we must be willing to put down our torches and pirthcforks, and meet them halfway and support their efforts when they return to more reasonble standards, like they are With Dragon Age.
It just bothers me when people have sort of a kneejerk reaction, instead of of analyzing each situation on a case by case basis, and paint a game that doesnt deserve it like Dragon Age, with the "Blah Blah, EA evil, Blah Blah" brush, and regurgitate a number of tired arguments that everyone knows by heart now in a sutuation where they do not apply.
The truth of the matter is, EA *has* responded to some degree to consumer criticism as of late, offering versions of their games free of SecuRom over Steam, seemingly retreating form the Spore level of DRM on major releases, and allowing a major game like Dragon Age to go out the door with pretty much the same level of restriction as Baldur's Gate did 10 years ago. Are they as consumer friendly as say Stardock? No, and they never will be. But they do seem to be exploring less hostile alternatives.
People seem worked up over the Command and Conquer Online thing, but that is an apples and oranges situation. That has more to to with the game model , than DRM directly. My understanding is that the game has MMO-like persistent elements. Now, I think it's a *stupid* game model, and Im sure the fact that the MMO-like persistent element model also doubles as a fairly potent inherent protection method played no small part in their game design decision, but if youre going to go that route, theres not really any way to *not* require it to be played online. Regardless, that talk belongs in the C&C thread, about *that* game, and not here, about *this* game, where it simply doesnt apply.
The facts about *this* game are, Bioware is still Bioware, and *flourishing* under EA ownership, not diminishing. The game will not have *any* SecuRom on it, and DRM will be limited to a disk check, the same level of restriction as any game you bought ten or 15 years ago. And if you buy it over Steam, it wont even have that (Only Steam protection).
I preordered my Box copy when they announced the reasonable protection standard, simply because I intend to use the robust toolset and play all the mods that will come out for this, and I didnt want any third party file structure interferring with that. Otherwise, I may have picked it up over Steam.
It looks like next year will be the best year ever (for me at least) with releases. I only wish I had more free time to play games (thinks to self - I really should get in the game business). Let see...
That is two MMO and two strat titles.
On a side note, I so wish Frogboy would want to open a Tokyo office for SD.
Not even next year for DA:O...it will be out in October.
I suppose you could always add Diabl0 3 or Starcraft 2 to takes its place though. Next year *will* be a big year for games.
No, not since that bug ridden piece of 'software' that was Mass Effect. Still waiting for a patch.
Yes i am bitter about that.
You are correct, I made a mistake - to damn tired. I meant Diablo III.
I'm still on the fense with SCII however. I want more information on it first. The whole "split" thing really killed my interest for it (Not a big Terran player). If the single player camp is simply epic then it will go on my list and I'll drool over the Protoss one when it is released.
I stand here humbled. Based on the press release and your comments I read much later yesterday - I will be a very happy man.
The official forum thread is here.
Well, personally I tend to believe their change of mind was also to a great degree due to the filed class action suits, but nevertheless it's a good thing they DID change it after all.
Forgive my ignorance, but I have no idea what STO is. However to the rest I do concur wholeheartedly.
Actually I'm all itchy about E:WoM...
On another note, so far I never touched MMORPGs due to the fact that it takes too much time to play and if you don't play regularly you get your ass handed all the time, but SW:ToR is really something that has the potential to change my mind. Especially after I saw the trailer/interview.
@OsisrisDawn:
Care to elaborate? I know a number of people who had no bug issues with ME.
@Star - Star Trek Online. Given I have less then ten hours a week free time and currently have a sub to LotRO and with two new fav franchises coming out in MMO land I dont know what I'll do... I guess STO would be my first choice if it is done right then SW:TOR followed by LotRO if I had to pick. Sadly enough three to four hours a week is not much time for any serious progression so I may have to make some hard choices unless they all offer lifesubs then things will be good.
Ah, I see... Doesn't look n sound too bad either. But if I had to choose I guess I'd opt for SW:TOR.
On a funny side note "TOR" is the german word for "goal" (like in soccer - not a personal goal).
Like quitting your job or dumping your g/f?
It is two very small companies (owner) and a wife (also owner) as well as a couple little demons. I just may have to take some drastic action soon.... I think the wife and imps are expendable however. She does not like games and they are pure trouble so that automatically moves her and them to the top of the list for cause.
Good choice!
A friend of mine has a g/f who likes the same games he does to a large extent. So it's rather the competition than her trying to get him off the screen that bothers him.They're both looking forward to DA:O and SW:TOR as well.
Also he managed to get his older daughter into playing SW:Lego.
I for one am currently thinking about buying the DA book to get a better impression about the underlying story and such.
I'm under the impression it is a very good book. If you are serious about the game it would be a worthy investment for the immersion factor.
Shoot part of me hopes that some of the creative people on these forums with lots of free time would take it upon themselves to write stories about different faction in E:WoM or better yet Frogboy would pen up some lore scrolls as teasers for the community.
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