I ran into a situation the other day where the group I was playing with joined a game of premade experts and a couple on my team asked that the opponent Sedna not use the 30% High Priest bug, since we were going to play without a Sedna of our own. The other team didn't agree to this and it was their host, so everyone on my side left the lobby. In custom games it is host's game, his rules, no worries, but it would be cool if we could reach a common ground in pub games when it comes to glitches and broken mechanics. What I'd like to do if it's possible is put together a set of standards which exclude the easily identifiable exploits. You can put it in the title of the game or someone joining a game could ask "House Rules apply?" and if the answer is yes then he knows that his opponents won't be using the following: Disallowed per House Rules 7/29/091. Drop and re-equip hp and mana buff items for the bonus2. Sedna Healing Wind + Level 3 idol Priests/High Priests3. Horn of Battle4. Minions inside Enemy Citadel Exploit The flip side is that there are some things which *might* be imba or cheezy but aren't actually broken. These things will not be excluded from House Rules because the counters are broader:Allowed per House Rules 7/29/09 1. Duplicate DGs on the same team2. Backdoor flaglocking on Crucible3. Minion Blitzing4. Item feedingThese rules are absolutely up for debate, addition, and revision, but there are a few things I'd like you to consider before this turns into a "YES! NO!! You Dummy!!" thread: - it is possible to beat a team which is using most or all of the disallowed mechanics, but it becomes very difficult to do so if you are not at least as good as they are and playing very specific Demigods and builds. The rules are designed to open up playstyles and teambuilds, not undercut the people who know how to play. Conversely, it's important that we don't make rules about things that work as intended but need tweaks to improve balance - only those mechanics which can be widely acknowledged are broken should be excluded from play - creating arbitrary rules of play is less desirable than having a perfect game or having the devs remove the loopholes. Hopefully most of the issues will be resolved in 1.2, but until then there are enough mature and experienced players to make something like this work. Any attempts to turn this into a l33t vs scrub conversation will be missing the point. - No one is saying you have to play by these rules unless they are specifically referenced in the game title or by the host. But if you join a game with "HR" or "House Rules" in the title or the host calls it in lobby before the game then you have a list of things you know are allowed or not, and it doesn't all have to be spelled out every time. - Noobs and randoms probably don't even read these forums, so this list is for those of us who know how to play and want to play others who also know how to play. I'm not going to call House Rules in a random game and get pissed when LittleNewbie29 doesn't know what that means and you shouldn't either.
KK, if you guys have objections or additions bring them in
Thanks for reading,
Kestrel
Guys, I only used the minion-inside-the-citadel trick for amusement. It does not make the minions invulnerable. In fact, on most maps the creep spawn automatically attacks the minions. The "exploit" provides no value against decent players who use AoE to destroy minions anyways.
The only benefit it provides is that humans cannot MANUALLY target the minions. It is, thus, funny. You can, however, stand next to the citadel and your Demigod will autoattack them.
I'm suprised no one is complaining about Spirit rushing the Citadel on Crucible?
I bet you most people don't even realize that it's virtually an automatic win.
Hehe. They are, finally.
sort of a side topic, but still relating to proper game edicit:
what about when demigods take out towers on the grunts path without grunt support. Coming from DotA this was techicaly considered backdooring when say a regulus on Cataract destroyed all the towers in front of base before the sides ones are down. any thoughts?
It is a rule made by the whiners too lazy to carry a recall in DoTA, it was originally made because you could destroy barracks without taking down the towers, which was a fine and dandy rule. That was fixed a long time ago, and the whiners changed it into what it is now, which is a load of bullshit. If a guy is soloing your base towers it's entirely your fault.
Or you're playing -em.
Amusing or not. Its still an exploit.
I doubt that's the correct term.
You're using a clearly unintended result of the coding to win games. Its exploiting.
Nooblets will continue to exploit as long as it is possible. It's up to the devs to take these bugs out of the game asap.
Um, no. It changes absolutely nothing when playing decent players. Know what you're talking about before making accusations.
but the whole point of the OP isn't about what is and isn't an exploit or even what the base definition of an exploit is. its about making a set list of does and don't that can be used as a guide line for fun competative gaming. we're support to be focusing aspects of the gam (bugged or not) that are acceptable when playing. a code of conduct if you may.
currently all those listed are fair examples of what is and isn't allowed, the question is is if their are any more aspects of the game that are unacceptable when playing? obviously once bugs in the game are fixed they can be taken off the list and replaced by new bugs. that why he dated the lists so you know their up-to-date.
That's beside the point. Good players or not, it does not matter if you're hiding minions in the citadel. Its not an intended feature of the game. Its like saying shooting through walls in Red Alert 3 was not a big deal because a good player could counter it.
I don't really feel that strongly about it to continue arguing, but don't presume it's an intended/unintended feature. It's certainly not intuitive but creeps can do it too so you have to at least wonder if the devs knew it was possible. Regardless, I'm done derailling this well intentioned, useful thread.
That's an absolutely ridiculous answer to the post you quoted.
After you graduate Kindergarten I'll explain it to you.
Glad to know our "high level" players enjoy the occasional exploit and use their "status" as a defense.
Glad to know our forums are as stuck up and clueless as ever, never change Demigod forums!
how about getting back on tyopic and maybe discussing the OP. i think it would probably be a good idea to properly define what backdooring is in Demigod so that when u class house rules and then cry backdooring u have a proper definition to go off. i'll go first:
Backdooring : Attacking grunt or structures in an area of the enemies base without taking out defensive structures first. (eg. taking portal flag on Cataract before taking the two towers down first)
if ur going to oppose this deifnition (which i hope people do so it turns into a discussion then) make sure u have a supportive definition ready so that can be discussed too.
In an organized tournament you could make this rule if you wanted to (although it's a lame one). In custom games, even amogst experienced players, it's 'do whatever it takes to win'. There's no etiquette here. Running past the two towers to take the portal flag is a good tactic that BOTH sides can use.
i do organize tournaments so things like house rules are very importants to me as an oranizer. having a community based set of does and don'ts makes everyones life a lot easier.
correct... in any random custom game rules do nto apply. however if these r house rules for those premade vs premade teams who really want to balanced sophisticated match. if you want demigods to become a competative game then this is a must. if you don't like the rules then don't play with them, this isn't rocket science people.
The things that are proposed to be forbidden here are all bugs, and bug fixes are devs' concern, not the players.' I know I sound really cynical right now, but the bottom line is that these kinds of rulesets never really work out because it reduces the community to an uncompetitive size and using every last trick in the book is what it means to play competitively. Glitch combos on fighting games, homogenous armies on RTSs, drink bugging on WoW, and many other things are examples of either bugs or unintended gameplay which are or were used in competitive play.
The only reason why house rules even seem feasible is because of how flawed and small the community is. If it grows these rules will become completely impractical and there's no aspect of the ladder which shows how nicely or fairly people played.
Now heres a rarity, I completely agree with Obscenitor.
Indeed.
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